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[Oceanus] Interceptor Updates

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Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#321 - 2014-09-22 00:00:49 UTC
even before bubble immunity I caught and subsequently had my fleet kill hundreds of ratters with ceptors

the ceptor bubble immunity is completely un-needed and all it does is reduce the actual skill required to play the game - and I say that as someone who has benefited from the change immensely

however the change to the malediction is completely unneeded when the crow is not being nerfed in the same way
if long range damage fleet tackle ceptors are a problem, none of them should have the damage. there is no reason for the crow to have 63km damage if 40km equivalent damage is "too strong" on the malediction. in fact even post change the crow has better slot layout for tackling (4 mids for fleet tackle is basically essential - the reason you saw 0 ares and infinite stilettos pre-ceptor first round changes). the malediction always had (and still has) its niche as a plated tackler but those are not common nor particularly desirable

i don't know what more i can say but i don't understand how anyone can look at the rocket restriction on the malediction and say "yep, that makes sense from a balance perspective" while considering the existence of the crow. it's just stupid, arbitrary change that will remove the malediction from the game in 90% of circumstances
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#322 - 2014-09-22 00:14:19 UTC
The Crow gets the ranged DPS but is losing the ability to be fitted for <2 second align, meaning it would be at least possible to catch it on a gate.


The issue with the Malediction was that it had the lows to fit for speed, with a range bonus to tackle, and a decent ranged weapon. The only thing the Malediction is really losing is the ability to do appreciable damage out past 20km. And given that it is a ship that can be fit for speed and bonused for tackle, no one should really care if it does any damage at all. It is still an very fast tackle frigate.
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#323 - 2014-09-22 01:21:13 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
The Crow gets the ranged DPS but is losing the ability to be fitted for <2 second align, meaning it would be at least possible to catch it on a gate.


The crow hasn't been able to achieve <2 second align without implants since the first post-rebalance tweaks
Zao Elongur
Porphyr Empire
#324 - 2014-09-22 03:53:10 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
Stiletto and Ares are pretty much limited to close range weapons. Their guns aren't for killing your target but rather defense against drones and frigates that are chasing you.

Fits used in the comparison:


sorry, but both your fits suck
with all skills lvl 5:
your malediction has 4k max speed with 4.7 align and 5700 hp
your stiletto 4.2k max speed with 4.2 align and 4k hp.

on the malediction you rig for targeting range which is absolutely pointless, and you waste a mid for dual tackle
on the stiletto again you are wasting a mid for dual tackle that could have been an ancillary booster, a low with the amp for a crappy +200 scan res as well as a rig with the em.

now i understand why you want short range weapons "for the drones and frigs" .... because with your crappy fits you are going to get damaged not just by warriors, but even by hobgoblins LOL

a properly fit stiletto:
4.7k speed, 3.6 align, 5k hp plus the ancilarry boost, with what ever dps
a properly fited malediction:
4.9k speed, 3.5 align, 4.8k hp with 57 dps @ 42km
a properly fited ares:
4.8k speed, 3.1 align, 4.5k hp with 31 dps @ 38.3km AND 57 dps @ 16.3km

ofcourse, you could go for short range weapons (to kill those evil drones frigs that chace your bad and slow ceptor), or fir them properly, keep the long range weapons, kill the drones and inflict what ever funny damage to a target at your disruptor range.

helpfull info for you:
turrets can actually change ammo
drones follow you at a wavy to nearly linear path when your ship is fast
Arla Sarain
#325 - 2014-09-22 07:06:43 UTC
A bit sad when someone defends a 30mill warp disrupting drone.

Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#326 - 2014-09-22 07:08:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Skyler Hawk
Destoya wrote:
I love the entitlement that a ship should be able to fit the biggest guns, the biggest shield extender, and a MWD without any fitting mods whatsoever.

I didn't say that - what I said was that the raptor has to make far greater fitting sacrifices than the other combat interceptors. Look:

Taranis - top tier guns, decent tank, 1 fitting mod: http://i.imgur.com/SOtCcJc.jpg
Crusader - top tier guns, decent tank, 1 fitting rig: http://i.imgur.com/z69RUUi.jpg
Claw - top tier guns, decent tank, no fitting mods or rigs: http://i.imgur.com/3vm4KIo.jpg

Now look at the raptor fits people have been kicking around - they all require either multiple fitting mods or downgraded guns or have zero damage mods on a "combat" interceptor. It's fine to say you should have to make sacrifices when fitting ships but it's silly to have one ship in a class making far bigger sacrifices than all its peers, and that's where the raptor is relative to the other combat inties with the proposed changes.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#327 - 2014-09-22 07:39:32 UTC
Zao Elongur wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Stiletto and Ares are pretty much limited to close range weapons. Their guns aren't for killing your target but rather defense against drones and frigates that are chasing you.

Fits used in the comparison:


sorry, but both your fits suck
with all skills lvl 5:
your malediction has 4k max speed with 4.7 align and 5700 hp
your stiletto 4.2k max speed with 4.2 align and 4k hp.

on the malediction you rig for targeting range which is absolutely pointless, and you waste a mid for dual tackle
on the stiletto again you are wasting a mid for dual tackle that could have been an ancillary booster, a low with the amp for a crappy +200 scan res as well as a rig with the em.

now i understand why you want short range weapons "for the drones and frigs" .... because with your crappy fits you are going to get damaged not just by warriors, but even by hobgoblins LOL

a properly fit stiletto:
4.7k speed, 3.6 align, 5k hp plus the ancilarry boost, with what ever dps
a properly fited malediction:
4.9k speed, 3.5 align, 4.8k hp with 57 dps @ 42km
a properly fited ares:
4.8k speed, 3.1 align, 4.5k hp with 31 dps @ 38.3km AND 57 dps @ 16.3km

ofcourse, you could go for short range weapons (to kill those evil drones frigs that chace your bad and slow ceptor), or fir them properly, keep the long range weapons, kill the drones and inflict what ever funny damage to a target at your disruptor range.

helpfull info for you:
turrets can actually change ammo
drones follow you at a wavy to nearly linear path when your ship is fast


Switch your MWD off for aligning. Should (hopefully) bring both of them under 3 sec.

And how will you prevent anything from using MJD or MWD when you don't have a scram? A nano cruiser can easily just keep the mwd running which makes it hard for your to keep transversal up and prevents your fleet from actually catching it.

The extra targeting range is so you can lock your targets before you actually get into pointrange. Without it the stiletto only has 36km lockrange which is the same range as heated point. So you will have to lock your target before you can actually apply your point while if you had extended lockrange you can lock it while you are burning in range. It can also help against damps.

But I would like to see your fits.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#328 - 2014-09-22 09:56:07 UTC
Zao Elongur wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Stiletto and Ares are pretty much limited to close range weapons. Their guns aren't for killing your target but rather defense against drones and frigates that are chasing you.

Fits used in the comparison:


sorry, but both your fits suck
with all skills lvl 5:
your malediction has 4k max speed with 4.7 align and 5700 hp
your stiletto 4.2k max speed with 4.2 align and 4k hp.

on the malediction you rig for targeting range which is absolutely pointless, and you waste a mid for dual tackle
on the stiletto again you are wasting a mid for dual tackle that could have been an ancillary booster, a low with the amp for a crappy +200 scan res as well as a rig with the em.

now i understand why you want short range weapons "for the drones and frigs" .... because with your crappy fits you are going to get damaged not just by warriors, but even by hobgoblins LOL

a properly fit stiletto:
4.7k speed, 3.6 align, 5k hp plus the ancilarry boost, with what ever dps
a properly fited malediction:
4.9k speed, 3.5 align, 4.8k hp with 57 dps @ 42km
a properly fited ares:
4.8k speed, 3.1 align, 4.5k hp with 31 dps @ 38.3km AND 57 dps @ 16.3km

ofcourse, you could go for short range weapons (to kill those evil drones frigs that chace your bad and slow ceptor), or fir them properly, keep the long range weapons, kill the drones and inflict what ever funny damage to a target at your disruptor range.

helpfull info for you:
turrets can actually change ammo
drones follow you at a wavy to nearly linear path when your ship is fast



And you are being arrogant. Depending on where and how you hunt you NEED dual tackle. Almost all our interceptors have dual tackle because the GOOD targets like battleships with 2 bil in loot have a few WCS.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#329 - 2014-09-22 10:08:59 UTC
Warn1nG Soul wrote:
Is that +mass really needed on the malediction ? :S



It is a BOOST. THey are increasign the mass but also speed in agility so that the base speed is the same. The result?

It suffers less from being plated and slow down less fast when webbed.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#330 - 2014-09-22 10:10:17 UTC
Titus Cole Dooley wrote:
CCP Fozzie i have a ? for you and everyone at CCP.

Why do you make a group of people that like a ship that is good sad by making it not as good? you are making happy people sad. why not make sad people happy? If a ship is not as good as another make it better. then the happy people stay happy and the sad people get happy. no one is sad then.

Just a Sub




They are just usign their time to find excuses to not fix the tempest... as ccp have been doing on last 8 years.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Zao Elongur
Porphyr Empire
#331 - 2014-09-22 12:08:32 UTC
my points are already made

i am not here to explain tactics, nor to play with trolls

i am out o7
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#332 - 2014-09-22 12:12:40 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
The Crow gets the ranged DPS but is losing the ability to be fitted for <2 second align, meaning it would be at least possible to catch it on a gate.


The issue with the Malediction was that it had the lows to fit for speed, with a range bonus to tackle, and a decent ranged weapon. The only thing the Malediction is really losing is the ability to do appreciable damage out past 20km. And given that it is a ship that can be fit for speed and bonused for tackle, no one should really care if it does any damage at all. It is still an very fast tackle frigate.


yeah maybe your right i dunno, i just really hate this nerfing ships into oblivion to counteract their uncatchability. imo no ship should be uncatchable in the first place but i guess with 1hz server ticks and bubble immunity on a frigate you're gonna run into those problems

i honestly wish they would just revert the bubble immunity. it makes interceptors way too common because they are just so much better than the alternatives no matter what for that reason and it also makes travelling in general in null way too easy
but thats never gonna happen so c'est la vie
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#333 - 2014-09-22 14:23:13 UTC
Zao Elongur wrote:
my points are already made

i am not here to explain tactics, nor to play with trolls

i am out o7



And your points are wrong and should be completely ignored. Anyone that thinks double tackle has no place, surely has no place in a balance discussion thread.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#334 - 2014-09-22 14:44:10 UTC
Zao Elongur wrote:
my points are already made

i am not here to explain tactics, nor to play with trolls

i am out o7


You are the troll here when you don't have the actual fits to back you up when you call other fits ****.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Zao Elongur
Porphyr Empire
#335 - 2014-09-22 16:26:47 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
because the GOOD targets like battleships with 2 bil in loot have a few WCS.


trolling

Mizhir wrote:
And how will you prevent anything from using MJD or MWD when you don't have a scram? A


for my fits, they are so standard i shouldnt even have to mention them, but if you really want me "knowledge" on fitting, you could easilly have googled and found the following.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Malediction
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Ares
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Stiletto

If you are that **** and dont know how you should fly a fleet inty, there are plenty of guides explaining what and why.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Interceptors_Guide

Now if you will excuse me, i do not want to help polute a thread made for purposefull discussion by feeding trolls.

bye


Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#336 - 2014-09-22 16:52:51 UTC
Zao Elongur wrote:

If you are that **** and dont know how you should fly a fleet inty, there are plenty of guides explaining what and why.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Interceptors_Guide


Take a look at the stiletto and crow fits on that page and you will see that they are both dual tackle and a targeting range rig.

So if you are going to flame other's fits based on EVE uni's stuff rather than your own knowledge, go ahead. It will only make you look like a dumbass.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#337 - 2014-09-22 16:58:57 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
Zao Elongur wrote:

If you are that **** and dont know how you should fly a fleet inty, there are plenty of guides explaining what and why.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Interceptors_Guide


Take a look at the stiletto and crow fits on that page and you will see that they are both dual tackle and a targeting range rig.

So if you are going to flame other's fits based on EVE uni's stuff rather than your own knowledge, go ahead. It will only make you look like a dumbass.



and the 3 others he linked are single tackle.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#338 - 2014-09-22 17:14:52 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Zao Elongur wrote:

If you are that **** and dont know how you should fly a fleet inty, there are plenty of guides explaining what and why.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Interceptors_Guide


Take a look at the stiletto and crow fits on that page and you will see that they are both dual tackle and a targeting range rig.

So if you are going to flame other's fits based on EVE uni's stuff rather than your own knowledge, go ahead. It will only make you look like a dumbass.



and the 3 others he linked are single tackle.


So just because EVE-Uni has 3 interceptor fits that are single tackle, we can safely assume that dual tackle is fail? As mentioned earlier, the dualtackle one allows you to pin down MJD and MWD ships which the singletackle one can't and it is a trade-off that is certainly worth it.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Ikslagor
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#339 - 2014-09-22 20:36:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ikslagor
Capqu wrote:

i don't know what more i can say but i don't understand how anyone can look at the rocket restriction on the malediction and say "yep, that makes sense from a balance perspective" while considering the existence of the crow. it's just stupid, arbitrary change that will remove the malediction from the game in 90% of circumstances


I couldn't agree more, especially when you consider that only one other frigate hull has such a restrictive bonus, the Vengeance. Even then it has at least one other bonus that allows it to consider fitting LMLs, but it's profile is such that one rarely (if ever) encounters it outside of it's brawling-rocket configuration. Your proposed changes consign the Malediction to a similar fate.

Previous narrative around prior balance passes has emphasized facilitating player choice in making trade offs between fitting options. This proposed change is a restriction rather than a choice, and a senseless restriction when the option to fly a crow still exists.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#340 - 2014-09-23 01:06:59 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Zao Elongur wrote:
my points are already made

i am not here to explain tactics, nor to play with trolls

i am out o7



And your points are wrong and should be completely ignored. Anyone that thinks double tackle has no place, surely has no place in a balance discussion thread.


Sorry I can't help myself......

Bahahahaha! GTFO with your crap fits. You are trying to honestly discuss balance when shooting ships with more than two WCS; you are either trolling or, well, slow.

Anyone who thinks that double tackle has any serious prevalence, surely has no place in a balance discussion thread.