These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Where are people saving isk?

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#1 - 2014-09-20 22:03:58 UTC
Right now I'm comparing mineral prices vs. Amarr sell price on Mallers, using a perfect BPO.

Mineral cost is showing as 9,790,960isk
Yet the lowest price I see in Domain is 9,500,000isk

That's not even taking into account the costs of manufacturing the item.

Is there somewhere else that these people are saving isk, or are they really selling at a loss?

I see people claiming there's profit in T1 manufacturing, but I sure don't see it in most of the items I've looked at. Hobgoblin I drones, for example, are stupid cheap compared to the mineral cost involved with making them.

Profit favors the prepared
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#2 - 2014-09-20 22:19:39 UTC
Some people are selling at a nominal loss, as they made them when they were cheaper. Others 'mined the minerals themselves, so they can afford to sell for less'. Some buy the minerals at a cheaper price, and 'can sell for less'. Some will be using outdated tools, and think they're making a profit.

Not everything on the market is rational.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#3 - 2014-09-20 22:25:51 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Some people are selling at a nominal loss, as they made them when they were cheaper. Others 'mined the minerals themselves, so they can afford to sell for less'. Some buy the minerals at a cheaper price, and 'can sell for less'. Some will be using outdated tools, and think they're making a profit.

Not everything on the market is rational.



Fun.

With the new processing and industry changes, even those "free minerals" are not so free anymore, but to each their own I guess.

Profit favors the prepared
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#4 - 2014-09-20 23:24:38 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Some people are selling at a nominal loss, as they made them when they were cheaper. Others 'mined the minerals themselves, so they can afford to sell for less'. Some buy the minerals at a cheaper price, and 'can sell for less'. Some will be using outdated tools, and think they're making a profit.

Not everything on the market is rational.



Fun.

With the new processing and industry changes, even those "free minerals" are not so free anymore, but to each their own I guess.


They never were free, it's all a state of mind.

During the ship rebalancing/tiericide most ships had their build costs increased, so many ships that were stock piled and of niche use are still available as production prior to the tiericide.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#5 - 2014-09-21 01:17:21 UTC
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Evei Shard wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Some people are selling at a nominal loss, as they made them when they were cheaper. Others 'mined the minerals themselves, so they can afford to sell for less'. Some buy the minerals at a cheaper price, and 'can sell for less'. Some will be using outdated tools, and think they're making a profit.

Not everything on the market is rational.



Fun.

With the new processing and industry changes, even those "free minerals" are not so free anymore, but to each their own I guess.


They never were free, it's all a state of mind.

During the ship rebalancing/tiericide most ships had their build costs increased, so many ships that were stock piled and of niche use are still available as production prior to the tiericide.


I understand the "minerals are not free" issue, I was just pointing out that in reality, due to refining rates and such in high-sec, that the time efficiency and such is even worse now. You have to take into account POS fuel costs and so on when calculating the overall efficiency of refining ores yourself.

What got me looking into all this was my recent attempts to figure out if I could still turn a profit manufacturing by buying minerals outright.

Seems the market has a ways to go before it levels out from all the changes in the past year.

Oh well. Only an hour or so left on my account right now before I break for a few months due to RL.

Thanks for the info, and fly safe.

Profit favors the prepared
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#6 - 2014-09-21 03:39:35 UTC
If you're going to talk about production profitability, it's only meaningful in the context of a portfolio. Isolated data is isolated.

For instance, my Crius profits are up 15% over my best ever month pre-Crius, but this month is markedly different from the first, even though my profits between the two months are tracking essentially even with each other. For example, rig profits are down 30%, but battlecruiser profits have more than quadrupled.

If you use an adaptive production model, your resources will naturally flow away from poorly to better performing items.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#7 - 2014-09-21 03:57:44 UTC
Quote:

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.

23. Post constructively.

Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.


Removed a post per the above rules.

On topic: Keep in mind the concept of economies of scale. It is entirely possible that whoever is manufacturing and selling the Mallers is taking advantage of bulk off-market (private) deals to obtain the materials at below market cost.

Alternatively, it could be one of the other reasons already posted here, or a combination. Markets are complicated. What?

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#8 - 2014-09-21 04:57:07 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:
Mineral cost is showing as 9,790,960isk
Yet the lowest price I see in Domain is 9,500,000isk
What would be the mineral cost if you took the best price over the last year?
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#9 - 2014-09-21 09:31:48 UTC
It's a case of idiots & MIMAF people. I recommend you list your goods at NPC stations or hubs where people aren't underselling their produce. Where those locations are I will leave you to work out. It is possible to sell most items at a profit but you may not sell as many as the people selling, logically speaking, at a loss.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2014-09-21 13:55:18 UTC
Be aware that a lot of things will have stockpiles from before crius so the those have to deplete first before the prices adjust properly
Charlie Nonoke
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#11 - 2014-09-21 15:28:53 UTC
A couple of things can lead to this little pickle.

1. Producers acquired or bought their minerals at values which were lower than your quoted estimate in your first post.
2. Producers mined all the mineral requirements and think their Mallers are free ISK.
3. Producers stockpiled Mallers when IPH was high, and are trying to burn through their stock.
4. Traders stockpiled Mallers when producers were selling to Buy Orders, and are trying to make their ISK now.
5. Traders had their buy orders realised, and are doing the flip now.

But the more subtle one is:

6. Some people just want to watch the world burn... and are engaging market PvP with you. Trying to force you out of the market, or force you to hold your stock indefinitely.