EVE General Discussion

Players gonna play play play play play.
And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate hate.

BS

EvE is certainly PvP centric, there is no doubt about that, but "non-consensual PvP" is entirely your own made up BS. Especially BS that is contrary to the evidence.

What evidence?

-T2 indy ships being able to use cov ops cloaks (clearly a tool designed to avoid being attacked)
-Warp stabs (a tool to get away from attackers)
-The ability to disband/drop corp when war dec'ed (if CCP really wanted to, they could make it so individual players remain as war targets while in npc corp for the week)
-The fact that you can stay in NPC corp that is not at war with any other NPC corp (CCP could make players who drop corp enter a FW corp)
-The fact that CONCORD even exists and the fact that there is even a war dec mechanic. While ganking is the one exception, CONCORD is there to punish those who gank allowing players to kinda avoid being ganked if they play right and not make themselves worth being ganked.

All of these mechanics designed to allow players from being the victim of non-consensual pvp.

Wardecs are an intended part of the game. You really think they exist for nothing? You have the ability to declare war on someone, but, well, nothing happens. Sorry bout your 50M y0



You have NOT read this thread, not even like 1 page back where I listed numerous and EASY ways to dodge a war that I myself have done like 8 or 9 times. It's ridiculous to assert that wardecs "force hiseccers to fold their corps." Thats a really STUPID way of dealing with a wardec.

tl'dr
folding your corp because of a wardec is both stupid and unnecessary.

Oh you mean the other ways to "PvP" in areas of the game like market trading and mining?

Aside from the fact that in many cases there are more resources available than players collecting it which means that my mining a rock doesn't prevent you from mining a rock.

Or I could also go into an in-depth discussion on opportunity costs and alternate means to the same end. All of which, once again, are features in the game (either intentional or simply a desirable side effect) that allow players to keep themselves from being victims of "non-consensual PvP".

So? There's nothing preventing a Catalyst or two bumping and ganking you. Non-consensual PVP.


Actually it would be really cool if you did that, but not in this thread. I have tried to explain it to many people, and they just dont get it. They then become the fucktards that think their minerals, etc are "free" because they mined them themself,so they can sell for any amount and "profit!" this fucks the market as they end up selling things for less than they're worth. I make my money with trader alts,I see it all the time. I wanna strangle those ppl.

That said, I dont rly see how thats germane to the diiscussion.



Good sir, if you ever undock, I can shoot you without your consent. You are arguing vapor.

Ok one more post because it already refreshed on my screen and I'm here....

Click that link re-read it please.


3) Corp hopping to evade war decs
No longer an exploit, with the exception of pilots changing corps while in space AND online (i.e. to"surprise" war targets).

4) Corp recycling to evade war decs
Not an exploit. Players are free to close and recreate corporations as they see fit due to the inconveniences usually involved in closing down a corp and the (miniscule) costs of founding a new one.[/i]

And the edited from parts... Means that once they considered this to be an exploit and now they don't. CCP made a decision to NOT consider it an exploit. By quoting that you argued against yourself.

i'm making a post here against my better judgement

let me tell you a little story about one of the first threads i remember seeing in general discussion, like an entire two years ago which frankly is closer to the bloody sphinx being built than to today. i think the ancient egyptians had to play eve on those horrible beige towers you see in old movies about hackers.

a pirate started a thread describing a use of logoff mechanics he thought was unfair. he talked about having trapped a slippery freighter pilot at a lowsec gate through cunning. however, before the freighter broke cloak, the pilot logged off. now this was just after ccp introduced the extended timer for your ship to disappear if you logged under aggression - a patch made to counter titan pilots logging off if they thought they could survive the following fifteen minutes - but before the new Crimewatch was introduced. so the freighter, logging off under gatecloak and without having yet taken aggression, had their ship disappear from space after a one-minute timer. the small pirate group, which under normal circumstances would have been able to defeat an unsupported freighter in lowsec, found they didn't have the ships to destroy a freighter in under one minute.

the pirate called foul and started a thread. now, the op was pretty whiny, but the point was made. why should a pilot be able to circumvent the efforts of others using an unintended mechanical advantage? but the thread quickly filled with carebears calling the familar 'lol pirate tears'. it's a fair way to avoid pvp, they said. don't try to force your game on us. it's on you to bring more dps, they said. it's risk versus reward, they said. stop being brainless, don't camp gates. why do you have to kill freighters to feel like a big man. what if the pilot disconnected by accident. it's in the game, therefore it's ccp's intention that you can log off like that.

surprisingly, a developer had seen the thread. he posted saying he'd bring the topic up in a meeting. the thread slowly died and was forgotten, lost to the impenetrable hot sands and the mysteries of khufu's pyramid.

until the new Crimewatch was released. you know the end of the story. today, if you log off in front of unfriendly guns with the intention of avoiding loss, you'll gain a timer as if you were logged in. the point here is not that a dev saw that particular thread, though. the point is that just because something isn't an exploit doesn't mean it's intended or desirable. arguing with 'it's in the game' doesn't mean anything. arguing 'it's in your favour, so you're only arguing for advantage over balance' is fallacy.

the moral of the story is ban npc forum alts.

Sure there is. There are steps that can be taken. Gankers, among other players, say it all the time.

-Mine while aligned
-Keep moving
-Use Dscan
-use a web alt to instawarp while traveling
-Properly tank your ship
-Use the right ship for the job

Or are you saying that all these things that have been said repeatedly is simply those people blowing smoke and that there is no real tactic against gankers?



Well, the mineral market is too competitive and miners are pretty much price takers not price makers. So they can't really sell for any amount...well they could try but it simply wouldn't sell. Unless they are undercutting and selling for low but they are really only hurting their own profit margin. As a trader, if you see someone undercut too much, buy it up and re-list if for higher and take their lost profit margin for yourself. Anyway...yeah I won't go into depth. :P



You could try.

If I pilot a cloaky ship right, you'd never be able to lock me.
WRT non cloaky ships, you could lock and shoot but if I play right, CONCORD will get you before you get me. In which case, this may be "non-consensual PvP" but it's also "non-consequential PvP", that is it's of no consequence to me.

I read the whole post ...
... but quote this single line instead of everything.

Sadly, they'd just make corps then...

Petition CCP to end the practice of corp hopping to avoid wardecs.

Just complaining about corp hopping on the forums is probably a waste of time.

Let us know how you get on.