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[Oceanus] Interceptor Updates

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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#281 - 2014-09-19 19:10:45 UTC
Capqu wrote:

Promiscuous Female wrote:
also the malediction has one less launcher than the crow post-oceanus so the damage is not exactly identical

3 launchers with 25% rof is exactly the same as 4 launchers dps,

3 * 1.25 = 3.75

3.75 < 4

think, mcfly, think
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#282 - 2014-09-19 19:12:43 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Capqu wrote:

Promiscuous Female wrote:
also the malediction has one less launcher than the crow post-oceanus so the damage is not exactly identical

3 launchers with 25% rof is exactly the same as 4 launchers dps,

3 * 1.25 = 3.75

3.75 < 4

think, mcfly, think


everyone laugh at this guy
Ranamar
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#283 - 2014-09-19 19:27:13 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Capqu wrote:

Promiscuous Female wrote:
also the malediction has one less launcher than the crow post-oceanus so the damage is not exactly identical

3 launchers with 25% rof is exactly the same as 4 launchers dps,

3 * 1.25 = 3.75

3.75 < 4

think, mcfly, think


Rate of fire, not damage.
3 / 0.75 = 4

(This is where I say "lrn2red", right?)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#284 - 2014-09-19 19:28:05 UTC
Capqu wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys. A few more updates to this plan.

We've added some more powergrid to the Raptor, adjusted the Malediction mass/velocity/inertia so that it performs better when plated or while turning with the prop mod on, and added a touch of speed to the Claw.

OP is updated.


are you going to completely ignore everything people have said about the rocket restriction or what

some kind of justification would be nice, and some reasonable use case for rockets on a malediction



Want one? Historically khanid ships were supposed to use short range missiles only. So they can say LORE.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Ehud Gera
Wildcard.
Boundary Experts
#285 - 2014-09-19 19:38:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ehud Gera
Fozzie:

On the note of the malediction. Since it's being led in the direction of plate+rocket+scram can we consider giving it a utility slot for a nos.

I feel like all inty's that are forced into that Neut range should have a way to function their tackle or prop mod even if only after nos cycles. Especially with how popular drone boats are the option to "Throw on a neut" is just too easy of a counter and leaves little creativity to close range inty's and drastically narrows their engagement profile.

Thoughts?

-Ehud

PS: I don't know much about the current state of other (only) close range inty's and if they have utility slots. Maybe i'm totally off about this idea but i'm just trying to logic it.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#286 - 2014-09-19 20:14:21 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Capqu wrote:

Promiscuous Female wrote:
also the malediction has one less launcher than the crow post-oceanus so the damage is not exactly identical

3 launchers with 25% rof is exactly the same as 4 launchers dps,

3 * 1.25 = 3.75

3.75 < 4

think, mcfly, think


sorry thats not how rof works, thats how a damage bonus would work

it's 3/0.75 as someone pointed out earlier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#287 - 2014-09-19 20:16:12 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Capqu wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys. A few more updates to this plan.

We've added some more powergrid to the Raptor, adjusted the Malediction mass/velocity/inertia so that it performs better when plated or while turning with the prop mod on, and added a touch of speed to the Claw.

OP is updated.


are you going to completely ignore everything people have said about the rocket restriction or what

some kind of justification would be nice, and some reasonable use case for rockets on a malediction



Want one? Historically khanid ships were supposed to use short range missiles only. So they can say LORE.


yea and that is a pretty good reason honestly, amarr do use rockets primarily - however i don't think game balance should be restricted by lore, and i don't think rockets are in a place right now where they can be considered as a primary weapon choice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#288 - 2014-09-19 20:21:42 UTC  |  Edited by: XvXTeacherVxV
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Crow:
Replace the 10% per level kinetic damage bonus with a 5% per level missile explosion radius bonus.
-1 Lowslot
+1 Highslot
+1 Launcher
+5 CPU

Malediction:
Restrict the missile RoF bonus to only apply to Rocket Launchers
+1 PWG
+141000 Mass
-0.55 Inertia
+35 Velocity

Raptor:
-1 Highslot
+1 Midslot
+2 PWG
+5 CPU
+51000 Mass
+0.05 Inertia

Ares:
Increase Small Hybrid tracking bonus from 7.5% to 10% per level
-40000 Mass
+0.1 Inertia
+40 Capacitor
+30s Capacitor Recharge Time

Stiletto:
-10000 Mass

Taranis:
-10000 Mass

Claw:
+5 Velocity


The Crow needs a PG buff if you're going to make it fit another launcher AND take away a low-slot.
Why is the Malediction the only interceptor that gets a bonus to just one weapon system instead of both?
The Claw still has a terrible slot layout. If it had 3 mids it would see a lot more use.+5 Velocity will not fix its problems.

The rest of these changes look ok.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#289 - 2014-09-19 20:22:03 UTC
Honestly, this won't bring the Crow or Male back in line. Crow changes, meh, okay. Changing the Malediction into a rocket-only boat will literally kill all use of the ship. It's better off with autocannons than rockets.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Archetype 66
Perkone
Caldari State
#290 - 2014-09-19 20:40:32 UTC
Missile formula is broken. Explosion radius is always more important than velocity...except when the target is still.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#291 - 2014-09-19 21:26:28 UTC
Capqu wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Capqu wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys. A few more updates to this plan.

We've added some more powergrid to the Raptor, adjusted the Malediction mass/velocity/inertia so that it performs better when plated or while turning with the prop mod on, and added a touch of speed to the Claw.

OP is updated.


are you going to completely ignore everything people have said about the rocket restriction or what

some kind of justification would be nice, and some reasonable use case for rockets on a malediction



Want one? Historically khanid ships were supposed to use short range missiles only. So they can say LORE.


yea and that is a pretty good reason honestly, amarr do use rockets primarily - however i don't think game balance should be restricted by lore, and i don't think rockets are in a place right now where they can be considered as a primary weapon choice


expect they ignored the lore for the HAC rebalance aka the Sacrilege
Ranamar
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#292 - 2014-09-19 22:03:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranamar
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
The Crow needs a PG buff if you're going to make it fit another launcher AND take away a low-slot.
Why is the Malediction the only interceptor that gets a bonus to just one weapon system instead of both?
The Claw still has a terrible slot layout. If it had 3 mids it would see a lot more use.+5 Velocity will not fix its problems.


The point is to make the crow harder to fit, I think. That said, if you're not stacking it with only agility mods and more agility mods, you probably already had either a co-processor or an overclock on it because its CPU is so gimped. If you trade that for an ACR and take off a CPU-using low slot, then things fit pretty well anyway, at the cost of some damage or tank. (Heck, it increases the amount of spare CPU a bit, so you can fit something other than a painter or sebo in the fourth mid slot.)

I can't speak to the Claw, having literally never flown it, but that is part of the reason I haven't. Except for bubble immunity, the Jaguar (an AF) seems to do its job about as well, modulo some shield-versus-armor (or more realistically shield tank versus speed and no tank) considerations.
Brother Mercury
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#293 - 2014-09-19 22:58:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Brother Mercury
May Arethusa wrote:
Let's look at some of the claims in this thread so far shall we?

....

The Malediction does ~100DPS, can align in under 2 seconds, and can do 5000m/s - It can't. I've covered the speed issue already, and it requires a significant investment to achieve this. The Malediction will do at best 85 DPS (before implants) while retaining it's ability to fit a tank and align in 1.9s.

....

The Malediction

Range and DPS were never an issue here, it was agility and speed. The changes really aren't that bad however, though the rocket damage is still pitiful when compared to other brawlers. It's still possible to LML, MWD, long point at the cost of a low slot and rig, which is less of an issue given the slot layout. Also leaves room for a plate, which boosts your tank and keeps your sig down. No longer the speed demon it once was, but it's competitive. My only real concern here is that non-bonused weapon systems offer higher DPS, which still results in a wasted hull bonus where rockets are concerned. I'd rather see the DPS and/or range on a par with the rocket Crow, providing both armour and shield doctrines with equally viable missile/rocket Interceptors.



This is not empty quoting. Fozzie and Rise please read this and really think about the valid points raised here. You gentlemen are worried about speed, alignment, and DPS all together. The Malediction already has to make sacrifices to it's DPS to get the great speed and align time. With these changes you are doing more than making the ship choose, you are gutting it.

I honestly don't see how ~80 ish DPS is a problem (assuming amazing skills, near perfect). Remember this is its DPS when you want to get it to go close(ish) to 5km, align fast, and have essentially no tank.
Lug Muad'Dib
Funk'in Hole
#294 - 2014-09-19 23:29:24 UTC
Totally killing my lovelly LM malediction cause bad pilot can't kill it in drones boat, it's game balancing ?
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#295 - 2014-09-20 00:15:32 UTC
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:
Totally killing my lovelly LM malediction cause bad pilot can't kill it in drones boat, it's game balancing ?


Nah, you don't understand how 'balancing' here works:

Ishtar overpowered, nerf light missiles!

Problem solved Big smile

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#296 - 2014-09-20 00:27:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Madbuster73
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:
Totally killing my lovelly LM malediction cause bad pilot can't kill it in drones boat, it's game balancing ?



Yes, Goonswarm farmers were crying out load to their friends in CSM and CCP staff because they cant AFK farm in
their Ishtars anymore. And they listened.
Now when a Malediction has a Goon farming Ishtar tackled they will have time to form a fleet to kill the malediction because it wil take the malediction now 10 minutes to kill it instead of 5 minutes.


GG
Yazzinra
Scorpion Ventures
#297 - 2014-09-20 00:35:35 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Yazzinra wrote:
I look forward to all these crow gangs being replaced by Ares gangs.


you're funny


A girl can dream.
Max Brewsky
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#298 - 2014-09-20 00:41:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Brewsky
Madbuster73 wrote:
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:
Totally killing my lovelly LM malediction cause bad pilot can't kill it in drones boat, it's game balancing ?



Yes, Goonswarm farmers were crying out load to their friends in CSM and CCP staff because they cant AFK farm in
their Ishtars anymore. And they listened.
Now when a Malediction has a Goon farming Ishtar tackled they will have time to form a fleet to kill the malediction because it wil take the malediction now 10 minutes to kill it instead of 5 minutes.


GG

The Malediction was never ment to be a one-person-afktar-killer. It should be a fast tackler, nothing more. Please stop complaining and adapt to that you lazy boulderguy.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#299 - 2014-09-20 00:41:31 UTC
Madbuster73 wrote:
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:
Totally killing my lovelly LM malediction cause bad pilot can't kill it in drones boat, it's game balancing ?



Yes, Goonswarm farmers were crying out load to their friends in CSM and CCP staff because they cant AFK farm in
their Ishtars anymore. And they listened.
Now when a Malediction has a Goon farming Ishtar tackled they will have time to form a fleet to kill the malediction because it wil take the malediction now 10 minutes to kill it instead of 5 minutes.


GG


Nah, we still run Ishtars all day every day (they are also broken)
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#300 - 2014-09-20 00:48:30 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:
Totally killing my lovelly LM malediction cause bad pilot can't kill it in drones boat, it's game balancing ?


Nah, you don't understand how 'balancing' here works:

Ishtar overpowered, nerf light missiles!

Problem solved Big smile

Maybe CCP is trying to tell us that rocket 'ceptors are supposed to be a counter to drones?

(I think that's a lousy reason to change 'ceptors, and an even worse excuse to not fix the Ishtar, but still.)

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