Player Features and Ideas Discussion

We understand you. However, it's very clear that looking at other ships bonuses and how ship bonus language works that he means what we are saying (besides you). It is also very much implied from Fozzie, that the crow and mal are too stronk with lml. Thus, based on a rational thought, he's slowing down the rate of fire, and decreasing DPS.

New align times for interceptors (unless my maths is bad) :

Ares : 4.545 (before : 4.598)
Taranis : 4.776 (before : 4.820)

Crow : 5.463 (unchanged)
Raptor : 4.949 (before : 4.639)

Stiletto : 4.901 (before : 4.949)
Claw : 4.804 (unchanged)

Malediction : 4.978 (before : 5.124)
Crusader : 4.658 (unchanged)

The Malediction gets a pretty big boost.
Ares is now by far the most agile.
Crow is now by far the least agile (was previously competing with Mal for this poor status).
Raptor gets the biggest nerf.
Taranis and Stiletto get a little love.

you're funny

Math time
Crow vs Crow with MWD off.

DRF Calc ends up being ~1.7
Crow sig = 35
Crow Vel = 538
missile E Vel = 255
missile E Rad = 30
new E rad = 22.5


Min [ 1, S/E , ( (S/E) * (Ve/Vt) ^ 1.7) ]

Old:
((1.16) * (0.474)) ^1.7 = 0.55 ^ 1.7 = 0.36
Min [ 1, 1.16, 0.36 ]

New:
((1.555) * (0.474)) ^1.7 = 0.737 ^ 1.7 = 0.595
Min [ 1, 1.555, 0.595 ]

it's actually pretty easy to understand

the malediction has four lows, allowing it to achieve <2s align, making it literally impossible to catch

having a 45km weapons platform with nearly perfect damage application on any target is hella overpowered

forcing the hull into rockets requires pilots to engage at distances where a suitable counter-response can be applied if the goal of the malediction pilot is to kill things by itself

i think you missed the part where he said
-0.55 Inertia
addressing that issue

also the fact that it has exactly the same damage as the crow now means that a lml malediction would just be a crow with -1 mid +2 lows, and no range bonus, no application bonus and a useless armor bonus topped off by 6% reduced rof

that line of nerfs is so unnecessary i don't even know where to begin
this coming from the same balance team that thought -2.5% per level on a 10% bonus was enough to balance the most disgustingly overpowered ship in the game just solidifies the complete lack of thought that goes into anything balance related.
they just roll a dice and see where it lands and then try justify it afterwards while ignoring valid criticism

useless armour bonus? lol

that's a bad thing


3 launchers with 25% rof is exactly the same as 4 launchers dps, i'm saying there is no reason to restrict the male to rockets when the crow exists


i'm fine with that, uncatchable is bullshit. but gutting the malediction into irrelevance is not the way to do it imo

i'd like the malediction to remain a threat to ratters basically, while just removing the uncatchability of them (make it so there is no possible way to align in under 2.5 s or w/e). i don't think removing the threat from ratters completely even while there is no-one actively camping for ceptors is a good thing.
and until rockets get a rework, especially in the fitting department, they aren't viable really for anything

Let's look at some of the claims in this thread so far shall we? Since I assume you're only listened to the excessively vocal nullbears losing ship after ship because they're not looking at the screen.

Interceptors do 5000m/s - In anything even remotely close to a 1.9 aligning crow (an impossibility that we'll cover soon) speeds like this requires a HG Snake set. The actual speed? 4687m/s. A malediction will come closer, doing 4829m/s. Warrior IIs already beat these speeds before applying skills and hull bonuses. This is of course assuming the Interceptor is flying in a straight line, which it isn't if it intends to hold point. I've seen plenty of Interceptors dying to ratters because they weren't paying attention. They can be beaten, but the people we target on these roams are the people who can't be bothered to take the necessary steps to protect themselves. Apparently it's okay to target semi-afk miners in high sec, but not semi-afk ratters in null, go figure.

1.9 Align Interceptors are uncatchable - They're really not, and we have the loss mails to prove it. While incredibly difficult to pin down with an insta-locking ship, it can be done. I always chuckled when I saw a Stiletto in the middle of a gate camp in null, because it's the wrong ship for the job, and a sign of the lack of imagination from most of the people who live out there. A remote sensor boosted Keres on the other hand, well then I might start to worry. This is assuming you try to catch them on the gate, which is stupid enough to begin with. A single MWD+Scram frigate successfully defended several ratters by simply warping to the site and chasing down the orbiting Interceptors. Smartbombing the warp-in point works. Hiding Rapiers in sites works. A lot of things work in fact. Gate camps not so much. As far as travel interceptors go, they're essentially 30M shuttles, should we also nerf shuttle agility so you can catch those easily? Cry more about interdiction nullification, not all of us live in null.

The crow aligns in 1.9 seconds - This hasn't been possible without implants since Rubicon 1.1. 2.04 seconds is the fastest they will align, requiring all 3 low slots and 2 T2 rigs to achieve even this. That means no MAPC, which means no MSE, which with the reduced speed makes the Crow an easy target inside point range.

The Malediction does ~100DPS, can align in under 2 seconds, and can do 5000m/s - It can't. I've covered the speed issue already, and it requires a significant investment to achieve this. The Malediction will do at best 85 DPS (before implants) while retaining it's ability to fit a tank and align in 1.9s.

The crow is overpowered - A fleet of Crows is certainly an issue, but so is a fleet of Ishtars and they were barely touched. The Crow certainly isn't alone in its ability to project DPS at such ranges. Talwars apply more DPS at an equal range and so while cap stable. Coraxes apply more than double the Crow's DPS at even greater ranges, with even better application. Harpies fulfil similar roles to the Crow when fit for sniping. Cormorants also. The list goes on, and extends far beyond Frigates and Destroyers. Ishtars are an even bigger problem when it comes to long range damage application, but hey, a minor nerf to sentry tracking fixed that, right?

I could continue, but I'll deal with the ship changes themselves, which are frankly laughable. You've essentially turned Interceptors into poorly tanked, low DPS Assault Frigs.

The Crow

Reducing their damage fails to address the issue of their range.
Kiting Crows already use Faction ammo which don't require a bonus to explosion radius to apply DPS.
Attempting to persuade people to use Fury/Rage with the hull bonus really won't achieve much.
The additional launcher, coupled with a lack of additional PG makes it all but impossible to fit even the most modest of tanks. 3.5 PG to fill 5 slots? Great job there.
If the issue was the inability to apply damage to a Crow 45-60km away from you, what do you think the result of lowering their sig radius by removing the ability to fit a MSE will be? Especially when they start fitting damps and TDs to counter the lack of a tank.

Shifting the current damage and velocity bonuses to rockets only would give the Crow similar DPS potential (after accounting for the additional launcher), but at only 12-15km. They then retain the ability to fit a nominal tank and still perform their role as a fleet interceptor.

The Malediction

Range and DPS were never an issue here, it was agility and speed. The changes really aren't that bad however, though the rocket damage is still pitiful when compared to other brawlers. It's still possible to LML, MWD, long point at the cost of a low slot and rig, which is less of an issue given the slot layout. Also leaves room for a plate, which boosts your tank and keeps your sig down. No longer the speed demon it once was, but it's competitive. My only real concern here is that non-bonused weapon systems offer higher DPS, which still results in a wasted hull bonus where rockets are concerned. I'd rather see the DPS and/or range on a par with the rocket Crow, providing both armour and shield doctrines with equally viable missile/rocket Interceptors.

The rest

Only issues I've seen raised outside this thread have been potential tracking issues with the Raptor. Generally acceptable changes though.

Light Missiles

An unwanted and unnecessary nerf. LML Frigates are now essentially useless, doubly so in Faction Warfare thanks to the DPS check on plex NPCs. It was hard enough breaking/outlasting an active tanked ship with light missiles before capping out, even a marginal drop in DPS makes this a virtual impossibility. Destroyers suffer less as alpha is the key, but fighting outnumbered with longer cycle times isn't going to work.

why? they can't kill anything anyway. we have other pvp-immune ships.