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Dev blog: A visual update of Wormhole space

First post
Author
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#21 - 2014-09-18 20:28:23 UTC
Draahk Chimera wrote:
For the future: Why is it that all w-space has 2 suns? One regular and one that has collapsed into pulsar/black hole/wolf rayet et cetera. Would it not be possible to make the actual sun be the black hole or whatever?


That'd we awesome.

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Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#22 - 2014-09-18 20:33:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Aquila Sagitta
Jumped on Sisi to check this out for myself!

CCP pls. C1-C5 are cream colored with slight variations.

C1 Cream
C2 Cream + black spot in middle
C3 Cream + red spot in middle
C4 Red + cream spot in middle
C5 Creamy red
C6 wasn't in my chain so can't comment

Another thing to note is the nebulae is smaller taking up a smaller portion of a hemisphere. This makes it easier to distinguish where your wh leads to but it makes it take long because you have to turn the camera until the nebulae is shown. Currently you can glance at wh and know where it leads. C5 wh without nebulae in focus vs C5 in focus. Since all the wh's are black when nebulae isn't in focus you'll spend more time ID'ing whs.

Please add more contrast between wh classes!
Mark726
Project Compass Holdings
#23 - 2014-09-18 20:44:34 UTC
Silly and random question, but will the WH in Promised Land be getting the blue wispiness and new effects as well? Just need to know if I need to update my screenshots or not P
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#24 - 2014-09-18 20:49:31 UTC
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
Jumped on Sisi to check this out for myself!

CCP pls. C1-C5 are cream colored with slight variations.

C1 Cream
C2 Cream + black spot in middle
C3 Cream + red spot in middle
C4 Red + cream spot in middle
C5 Creamy red
C6 wasn't in my chain so can't comment

Another thing to note is the nebulae is smaller taking up a smaller portion of a hemisphere. This makes it easier to distinguish where your wh leads to but it makes it take long because you have to turn the camera until the nebulae is shown. Currently you can glance at wh and know where it leads. C5 wh without nebulae in focus vs C5 in focus. Since all the wh's are black when nebulae isn't in focus you'll spend more time ID'ing whs.

Please add more contrast between wh classes!

+1 the old backgrounds had certainly more color variation which made them easier distinguishable

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Leon en Marland
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#25 - 2014-09-18 21:00:53 UTC
Draahk Chimera wrote:
For the future: Why is it that all w-space has 2 suns? One regular and one that has collapsed into pulsar/black hole/wolf rayet et cetera. Would it not be possible to make the actual sun be the black hole or whatever?


Binary star systems are actually more common in our universe than single star systems.

If you really want to EVE to be correct then at least some of the 2500 K space systems should be binaries P
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#26 - 2014-09-18 21:02:18 UTC
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
Jumped on Sisi to check this out for myself!

CCP pls. C1-C5 are cream colored with slight variations.

C1 Cream
C2 Cream + black spot in middle
C3 Cream + red spot in middle
C4 Red + cream spot in middle
C5 Creamy red
C6 wasn't in my chain so can't comment

Another thing to note is the nebulae is smaller taking up a smaller portion of a hemisphere. This makes it easier to distinguish where your wh leads to but it makes it take long because you have to turn the camera until the nebulae is shown. Currently you can glance at wh and know where it leads. With these changes I'll have to look much harder.

Please add more contrast between wh classes!


Could you also please check on lower videosettings because most likely noone in the artteam every tried that?

I am very happy we are finally getting improved grafics, but there are some buts:
It was already easy to confuse a c1 and a c2 hole (pic for reference) and it now still is. Ofc this is only for frigholes since normal holes have different shipsizeeffects. Same for c6s and minmatarspace (textbox solves this since one is deadly unknown and the other known).
Rest seems to be ok through the hole but not that easy to differenciate in system. They are really kinda small and it takes away the feel of being in a wormhole system. Right now you jump in and often think "Yeah, this is not k-space it is really blue/green/red in here".

Also, is it implemented the same way the k-space skyboxes are with being bigger/smaller depending on the location of the system or is it just 6 different looks for the 6 classes? Do some of the systemeffects interfere with the points of interest(I am looking at you huge blackholespacetoilet)?
Mellianah
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-09-18 21:03:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mellianah
I'd love to see the Evegate get an update.

For such a popular 'tourist' destination - and the danger of the route - it'd be good to see something spectacular at the end of it.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-09-18 23:30:20 UTC
Just beautiful. Definitely going to have to go exploring through w-space soon! CCP's graphics team is one of the best in the business, keep up the good work!

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#29 - 2014-09-18 23:38:13 UTC
Draahk Chimera wrote:
For the future: Why is it that all w-space has 2 suns? One regular and one that has collapsed into pulsar/black hole/wolf rayet et cetera. Would it not be possible to make the actual sun be the black hole or whatever?

The double star is to do with how HW's find a destination. All K space systems are double star as well. Under EVE lore WH's between systems (Stargates are just stable WH's) requires a binary (or maybe higher, but certainly never a solo) at both ends.
As for making the 'actual' sun the Black Hole, well, you aren't likely to get useful planets orbiting the black hole or pulsar or whatever, they will be on the more normal companion star.
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#30 - 2014-09-19 00:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Aquila Sagitta
Shilalasar wrote:
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
Jumped on Sisi to check this out for myself!

CCP pls. C1-C5 are cream colored with slight variations.

C1 Cream
C2 Cream + black spot in middle
C3 Cream + red spot in middle
C4 Red + cream spot in middle
C5 Creamy red
C6 wasn't in my chain so can't comment

Another thing to note is the nebulae is smaller taking up a smaller portion of a hemisphere. This makes it easier to distinguish where your wh leads to but it makes it take long because you have to turn the camera until the nebulae is shown. Currently you can glance at wh and know where it leads. With these changes I'll have to look much harder.

Please add more contrast between wh classes!


Could you also please check on lower videosettings because most likely noone in the artteam every tried that?


Everything disabled or on low EXCEPT shader which is at medium. If shader is on low wh's just look static and a blob in space

C1
C2
C3
C4
C5
C6 not in chain

No difference between high and low settings in my opinion.

Bonus! Cloak effect on low settings shader @medium
Angel Riot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-09-19 02:10:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Angel Riot
Firstly I welcome that wh nebulas are being worked on its great to see WHs receiving some dev love.

BUT.... you cant seriously be turning every WH system into a C3 (graphically) ... .Evil

Every wormhole class will now look similar.. this is bad because..

Lack of graphical variety
= boring when you live in WHs. + You arguebly have chosen the colours of the uglist WH class (C3) to model the update on.

Cant tell what Class you jumping into
Its important for wormholers to know the class they are jumping though as it allows intel and tactical decisons to be made before you commit to the jump and reveal yourself on dscan by decloaking...

Eg if I see a known C5 corp pilot jump into a C5 WH I may rethink doing a ballsdeep (no backup) jump and tackle because its a increased possibility that its his home system...

Similar you generally asign threat levels based on the class of K162 WH that has spawned into you.. C1-C3 = possible targets.. C5-C6 = you may need to be more cautious because the higher level WHs usually have more organised corps with greater numbers.

Dumbing down WH space
By having the colours the same and generally indistinguishable though WHs you are dumbing down WH space by taking away the subtle intel/tactical advantages that knowledge of the otherside of the WH brought. Serously CCP do you have any devs who have actually lived in WH space for any length of time...
Lukas Rox
Aideron Technologies
#32 - 2014-09-19 07:01:32 UTC
I have some feedback regarding colours of the wormholes.

I know you guys actually looked up sience behind what a wormhole is and how would it look like if it was to occur. why not make the colours that denote maximum jump mass be scientific as well?

Let's assume frigate sized wormhole produces shortest wavelengths, so it should remain blue, or even violet
Now the middle size wormhole should be green, as it produces medium wavelengths. Battleship sized WH should be yellow or gold, and the biggest one that allows capitals should emit longest wavelengths, so should be red.

What do you think? AFAIK this shouldn't be much of a problem to change (my guess is this shader takes this colour as parameter), and would keep the "scientific" feel.

Proud developer of LMeve: Industry Contribution and Mass Production Tracker: https://github.com/roxlukas/lmeve | Blogging about EVE on http://pozniak.pl/wp/

Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#33 - 2014-09-19 07:22:09 UTC
CCP Nag wrote:
Obil Que wrote:
If anything, I would have wish for more clarity between C1/C2 while enhancing the graphical details of each class. Instead C1-C4 appear to be very similar now almost going backwards in that regard from the current state of affairs. Having not seen them in game yet I will reserve judgement but I hope they are not as similar as they appear in the 6 box rendition in the devblog


Yeah they look quite similar in the 6 side by side screenshot on the blog. They are quite visually distinct in game though so I´m hoping we won´t have to change them cause I quite like them as they are. But we´ll see.

The main worry here isn't so much how distinct they look IN the hole, but how easily identifiable they are from outside.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-09-19 09:20:57 UTC
I have to say, overall I like the changes, but there are some things I'm not happy with.

I do like the new strands indicating the size of ship that can pass through the wormhole. It might take a bit to get used to, but it's good visual information.

The lack of distinguishing color in each wormhole class seems like a loss. It was a nice way of quickly identifying the class of the wormhole from the outside, and also comfortable on the inside.

I really enjoyed the blue/green/aqua color of the C1 and C2 wormholes - they were just pleasant to be in, and felt like you were underwater. The dusky color of the C3 and more vibrant C4 let you know where you were. The more dangerous C5 and C6 colors in red were a bit tiring after a while, but relayed the additional danger.

With the new nebulas, it seems this was really scaled back. Having to identify based on the nebula alone doesn't make a lot of sense. Here's a sample video of the inside of the wormholes for perspective.

Also, the Black Hole still looks like a gaping anus. Please for the love of Bob change it, I can't stand to look at the animation.
Slicr
#35 - 2014-09-19 11:20:20 UTC
Wholly crap, now I can just look at a WH to see if I can fit through it?
Nice, cuz I just use to mouse click to see if I could enter. Also that show info feature is now useless as one can just look at the WH and tell what class it is - wonderful.

Maybe spend more time and resources on fixing the collision detection on some of the mission, explorer sites, etc that have like a football size radius around them? It would be nice to enjoy the game as I cruise around the large objects without encountering many collisions on the huge invisible walls around some of these objects.

I believe in being Pro-Active as Opposed to Reactive. Reactive tends to be more costly in time and money.

Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#36 - 2014-09-19 13:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Komodo Askold
Those nebulae... They're amazing... Many thanks CCP for the update! Big smile

Now, some feedback. They look really nice, and they still keep some "cloud-looking" feel they had before the update. Also, it seems you did put some purple in there!

There is a problem though, which is they look too similar. Perhaps those systems are not that far away betwee each other. However, those colors did add variety and helped identify the classes. These are some small possible tweaks that would help identification, while keeping the new colors and theme (we don't need the old colors, we just need them to be different from each other). I'm using the provided link as reference; later I'll check them in SiSi.

C1: white, blue and black. Simple and ominous for what should be new player's first view of unknown space. Looks great as it is.

C2: changes C1's blue into brown/gold. Looks very nice, but perhaps could use more enphasis on brown.

C3: more white, black, and now maroon. All that white and maroon reminds of the old C3 nebula, but perhaps could use more color saturation.

C4: that green and yellow clouds remind of the old C4's, but the ones put it close to C3's. I'd say make those green and yellow clouds more dominant.

C5: looks good, although I'll have to check an ingame one first.

C6: also nice and reminds of the old nebula, although I'd like it to be a bit more different than the old one. I'll also have to check it out ingame.

Hopefully these tweaks could help identification. On the other hand, while writing this list, I've seen I can now identify their new colors and shapes fairly easily; perhaps it's just a matter of getting used to it. I'll have to see them through WH's too, though.

And, those new WH animations are cool as hell :)

Excellent job, art department!

EDIT: I' ve seen 2 of the nebulae ingame.

C4: I couldn't find the green cloud. Might be because of the Black Hole that was in there. I'd suggest to try an put System Effects on the empty areas of the background, so they don't cover the nice nebulae. [adittion from another C4] The previous Black Hole was covering an enormous white cloud. It looks fantastic, and makes you wonder which natural conditions would make it appear in there, so contrasting with the rest of the nebula. That white nebula is easy to spot when looking at WH's, making the class easy to identify.

C5: [editing an error; I was first looking at a C4] A pinkish nebula with inner brightness diffused by a closer cloud. Looks... misterious. Like there's a big danger inside it, but covered by a difusing veil that keeps you from knowing too much about it. The ambient music helped to that effect. Too much H.P. Lovecraft lately. Apart from that, the nebula looks nice. The general pink-red color makes it easy to identify when looking at WH's.
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#37 - 2014-09-19 14:14:35 UTC
Small update: I've detected artifacts in the C4 and C5 nebulae. They seem like the edges of the top square of the skybox, and look as black, thick lines.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#38 - 2014-09-19 16:20:51 UTC
These are pretty, but as others have said, the nebulae are not distinct enough for C1-4.

The ship class information is cool to have I guess, but tbh it's only relevant in extremely rare cases in practice.

Erin Crawford
#39 - 2014-09-19 16:44:12 UTC
John Wolfsson wrote:
Really nice fake mate :) , i hop into leopard and travel 17 jumps only to see this, but when i travelled to Colelie i saw only normal sun :) ...


Sorry! Pirate

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "

George macAwesome
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-09-19 19:38:05 UTC  |  Edited by: George macAwesome
What I personally missed from wormholes is the idea/look of spacial distortion.

In nature we don't know of any wormholes but the theory says it would warp spacetime much like a black hole. As such it would be awesome to introduce a lensing effect around the wormhole, like this:

http://www.strings.ph.qmul.ac.uk/~bigdraw/penrose/slide2.html

Of course I have no idea whether this is technically possible in the game, but it would reinforce the idea that wormholes are strange, anomalous objects. I'd really love to see that introduced.
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