These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Stormcrows: Killers of 2034 Slaves
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Arista Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#261 - 2014-08-27 00:29:24 UTC
Aracturus wrote:

5edgy3me.

Seriously ari, did we run out of coffee at the Noir? You could have just said so instead of going on warpath.


I'm actually home in the Kingdom at the moment.


"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.  And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#262 - 2014-08-28 13:24:46 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
You really don't know how to open your mouth without saying something stupid, do you Kim?

Why all forum loudmouths try to insult me with their own flaws, and then grunt when I just come back at them with what they brought?...
Really, Stitcher. Did I tell you already that Im tired of your ignorance? Okay, I will tell it again.

Stitcher wrote:

In case you're not aware, so far as we can tell, the only culture in all of New Eden never to practice any kind of slavery at any time in its history would be the Caldari.

In case you're not aware, that's the point that I was bringing almost in majority of slavery discussions. But yes, Mr. Stitcher can write, Mr. Stitcher can't read. Or maybe can, but contents of his head looks like not clinging enough to information, if it won't allow him to insult other party.

Stitcher wrote:

Oh, sure, people pull out this apologist explanation how that's only because we focus on the practical downsides rather than the morality of freedom, but given that greatest-common-good practicality is a Caldari moral principle, it follows that anything impractical is also immoral according to Caldari ethics. After all, we're under no obligation to agree with foreign powers that slavery is immoral for what they define as "the right reasons".

All I said was that in my opinion, slavery is immoral. I never explained WHY I think it's immoral.

At first, I thought you would say something really not stupid, but then it came down to "impractical is immoral".
I really don't feel I want to start to discuss this sentence and find examples where it would be true (yes! but only in some cases) and false, I will just add, that your attempt to understand Caldari mindset is very shallow and pathetic.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#263 - 2014-09-18 21:36:52 UTC
For the people that wondered, thanks to miss Hoshi Karasawa, the rescued slaves have recovered from their worst injuries and have been given a new start in their lives!

Rescued slaves given the chance for a better life!

In short, these rescued slaves now have found safety in either the Republic, through Anabella Rella, member of Gradient or the Aurora Arcology Project.
Both organisations will do their best to assist these people in a life where they can make decisions of their own, leading a life of their own choosing.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#264 - 2014-09-19 01:26:31 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
For the people that wondered, thanks to miss Hoshi Karasawa, the rescued slaves have recovered from their worst injuries and have been given a new start in their lives!

Rescued slaves given the chance for a better life!

In short, these rescued slaves now have found safety in either the Republic, through Anabella Rella, member of Gradient or the Aurora Arcology Project.
Both organisations will do their best to assist these people in a life where they can make decisions of their own, leading a life of their own choosing.

They should have been returned to the Empire. Ms. Ymladris, you have been committed a grave mistake, giving them into hands of a half-wit person.
I would avoid transfer of any slaves or other property towards Republic, since the Republic is currently hostile to the State. Giving them anything can be considered as support of an enemy, and such action can be interpreted as a treason.
At least, if there is an undeniable need to transfer something to the Republic, please consult the Empire officials first (since said slaves could be property or citizens of the Empire), and... well, please work with Republic officials as well, not a random criminal, who, taking in account her history, could easily turn these slaves into terrorists to attack the State or the Empire.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#265 - 2014-09-19 01:58:26 UTC
Don't return them to their own people, that's wrong in so many ways....... Yep.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#266 - 2014-09-19 03:28:35 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Don't return them to their own people, that's wrong in so many ways....... Yep.

Why do you think they all are Republic people?
Maybe they were born and live all their lives in the Empire, which is more likely. And that's why it's better to consult first with Amarr representative than just give peoples into hands of known terrorist, just because they are of the same... race.
As far as I understand, there are no slaves in the Republic, while it is only in the Empire slavery is legally allowed.
This means, if you got a slave in your posession (which is, I have to say, is illegal in most territories), you should first contact the Amarr Empire.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#267 - 2014-09-19 04:16:34 UTC
Never known anyone who volunteered to be a slave, nor have I known anyone who wished they were born one.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#268 - 2014-09-19 04:43:24 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Never known anyone who volunteered to be a slave, nor have I known anyone who wished they were born one.

I have met a slave only once. She was very polite person, who was defending honor of her holder in her absence.
Of course, I mean proper Amarr slave, not some sort of Sansha flesh drone.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#269 - 2014-09-19 04:58:19 UTC
I think we can agree sansha is a totally different thing, but what was that about gallante people being brainwashed in their ways? You met one slave who really could be considered brainwashed under your own logic. They grew up a slave, that's all they know. Much like the Gallante you despise. What makes them different? Gallante Citizens can leave their realm of influence freely. If they feel the ways forced down their throats is wrong they can simply leave. Ask that slave you met to do the same, oh yeah,..... They can't. I'm sure given freedom, some would go back (why I don't know), but by their own choice, not because they can't. So why force subjugation on them? Why not let them think for themselves?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#270 - 2014-09-19 07:05:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Diana Kim
What makes you think they can't think for themselves?
As far as I remember, this slave was actually managing affairs of her holder, and that requires quite a lot of thinking. I bet way more thinking that her holder.

As for brainwashing. You see, that slave was polite, loyal, respectful and dutiful. I would call it proper upbringing. But if it is brainwashing, it is the best damn brainwashing you can find in our cluster, because qualities that this slave was "brainwashed" to are the best qualities of a human being. When I was looking at this slave, I was questioning myself, why we all can't be like her?..

And take these gallenteans on other hand. What are they brainwashed to? That hedonism, freedom, democracy, individualism are good?.. Anyone with just a bit of brains and thinking abilities can easily show that any and all of these concepts are evil, destructive and anti-humane.
And what we get as a result? Gallentean kids, who can do terrible things, justifying themselves with "I am free derp-derp gallentean derp-derp, i can do whatever I want !"

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#271 - 2014-09-19 08:10:10 UTC
We really don't need another slavery conversation here. This **** hasn't been about slavery, it's been about one awful monster doing horrible things to people. No matter where those slaves eventually go, anywhere is better than in the Slave Butcher's hands. Some of them remain with the Empire, some have gone to Gradient and the Republic, and some to Aurora. All of those are better than where they just were. What matters in this situation is that they be given the comfort and care needed in consideration of the trauma they've been through. Their legal status is probably the last thing on their minds right now.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#272 - 2014-09-19 08:53:29 UTC
Is it just me or is Kimmy starting to sound more like Nauplius?

❤️️💛💚💙💜
JP Eulienne
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2014-09-19 10:01:09 UTC
Confirming that Gallentean kids do 'terrible things' like making their own choices.
Hoshi Karasawa
Karasawa Heavy Engineering
#274 - 2014-09-19 10:19:24 UTC
Thank you for your report, Ms Ymladris.

I'm glad the former slaves who were in my care are on their way to new, better homes.

"Yahy har jar and a botrle od rum" - Pepper Swift
Kyllsa Siikanen
Tuonelan Virta
#275 - 2014-09-19 10:54:50 UTC
Wait, so now I'm a known terrorist?

When was someone going to tell me??

“Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.” 

― C.S. Lewis 
Kyllsa Siikanen
Tuonelan Virta
#276 - 2014-09-19 10:55:37 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
We really don't need another slavery conversation here. This **** hasn't been about slavery, it's been about one awful monster doing horrible things to people. No matter where those slaves eventually go, anywhere is better than in the Slave Butcher's hands. Some of them remain with the Empire, some have gone to Gradient and the Republic, and some to Aurora. All of those are better than where they just were. What matters in this situation is that they be given the comfort and care needed in consideration of the trauma they've been through. Their legal status is probably the last thing on their minds right now.


Stop it. Stop saying things which make me like you. Stop. That!

“Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.” 

― C.S. Lewis 
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#277 - 2014-09-19 12:21:25 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
We really don't need another slavery conversation here. This **** hasn't been about slavery, it's been about one awful monster doing horrible things to people. No matter where those slaves eventually go, anywhere is better than in the Slave Butcher's hands. Some of them remain with the Empire, some have gone to Gradient and the Republic, and some to Aurora. All of those are better than where they just were. What matters in this situation is that they be given the comfort and care needed in consideration of the trauma they've been through. Their legal status is probably the last thing on their minds right now.

Please excuse me, Ms. Kernher, but I can't agree with everything you have said.
Of course, removing peoples from the reach of Mr. Nauplius was indeed good for them (if we forget about those, who have died, of course). But we were discussing what happened with them after this.
And I cannot agree that anywhere they will end would be actually be better than just leaving them to be tortured by Mr. Nauplius or killed in a shipwreck by someone, who fights against Mr. Nauplius.
For example, this transaction of them into Republic looks for me as putting them out of the frying pan into the fire.

My idea, that I was defending, was that they all should have been transferred to Amarr Empire authorities for them to decide their fate.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Hoshi Karasawa
Karasawa Heavy Engineering
#278 - 2014-09-19 12:27:23 UTC
I can assure people who may be concerned about where the former slaves have gone, that they decided for themselves where they wanted to go.

Some wanted to go with Ms Ymladris, some wanted to go to the Republic, and so I contacted Ms Rella about that.

I did not, and do not believe that I should decide their fates. I simply told them their options, and let them choose.

People should be able to decide their own fates. These people have this freedom, among others.

Thank you.

"Yahy har jar and a botrle od rum" - Pepper Swift
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#279 - 2014-09-19 12:30:11 UTC
Perhaps there is a silver lining to this affair in that horror and terror regarding my deeds has been spread far and wide along with the surviving slaves.

Somewhere, a filthy Minmatar subhuman child sees a mutilated slave and hears this was done by a man who believes God has given the Minmatar over to destruction. Now she is scared, wondering whether she is going to end up like that mutilated slave. God is glorified in her fear, and I take pleasure in it.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#280 - 2014-09-19 12:35:09 UTC
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:
Wait, so now I'm a known terrorist?

When was someone going to tell me??

Ms. Siikanen...
There wasn't YOUR name mentioned in the report, neither I called out you in particular.
And your sudden outburst out of blue with your association with terrorists is quite alarming.

However, whether you yourself are a terrorist or not, the Winds will reveal to us only in the Future.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.