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GamerGate Part 1: The Path We've Taken 9/28

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Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2014-09-18 18:07:41 UTC
Ila Dace wrote:


No, I do not think death threats are appropriate.

I also think that they are unrepresentative of the "community" or "climate". While they should never have been made, they have most certainly been used to assert that all disagreement with the "victim's" position is a stance in favor of the threats. This attempts to stop all discussion of the original topic. That is what I'm arguing against.


Completely agree with you.


However, this is why society should go to great lengths to shut down extremism (like the fellows who think death threats are ok).

Things like this completely derail the conversation.


And the original topic? I think Doc Fury had the best response. EVE doesn't have anything that qualifies as a gaming press.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#62 - 2014-09-18 18:52:01 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

However, this is why society should go to great lengths to shut down extremism (like the fellows who think death threats are ok).


Except that you are going to great lengths to shut down anyone that disagrees with your narrow viewpoint of what "perfect society" is.

Sibyyl wrote:


Things like this completely derail the conversation.


Is the topic the issue of possible sexism, or is it about the issue of death threats, because going by your commentary, it's about death threats. Your constant use of this uncommon action to deflect any and all arguments by individuals who, to my knowledge, have *not* been making any sort of threats is itself derailing the thread.

As I said previously. If you walk around randomly slapping people in the face, sooner or later, someone will retaliate with greater force than you care to deal with. What they choose to do is wrong, but it does not make everyone else guilty of assault, nor does it absolve you of any wrongdoing for attacking people randomly in the first place.

Profit favors the prepared
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2014-09-18 19:12:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Evei Shard wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

However, this is why society should go to great lengths to shut down extremism (like the fellows who think death threats are ok).


Except that you are going to great lengths to shut down anyone that disagrees with your narrow viewpoint of what "perfect society" is.


I'm perfectly ok with condemning and eliminating violence as a means of communication. I'm not sure why you think death threats are a form of free speech.

And if your statement is aimed at me, kindly explain what you think I believe "perfect society" is. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.


Quote:


Is the topic the issue of possible sexism, or is it about the issue of death threats, because going by your commentary, it's about death threats. Your constant use of this uncommon action to deflect any and all arguments by individuals who, to my knowledge, have *not* been making any sort of threats is itself derailing the thread.


The topic is about both. The #gamergate hashtag encompasses both extremes of the situation.

The individuals in this thread, including OP, who have excluded any consideration of harrassment and doxxing have been called out for picking and choosing what to respond to about #gamergate.

The community response has been shameful on many levels. You don't get to conveniently ignore that when you want to discuss this topic.



Quote:

As I said previously. If you walk around randomly slapping people in the face, sooner or later, someone will retaliate with greater force than you care to deal with. What they choose to do is wrong, but it does not make everyone else guilty of assault, nor does it absolve you of any wrongdoing for attacking people randomly in the first place.


Nice analogy. So Saarkesian actually issued a death threat against someone? Did she publish other people's phone numbers or employment history?


No need to argue with me about the legitimacy of Saarkesian's content. I've already stated my views on it (and I probably agree with 90% of what you have to say about it).

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#64 - 2014-09-18 19:45:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Sibyyl wrote:


Quote:

As I said previously. If you walk around randomly slapping people in the face, sooner or later, someone will retaliate with greater force than you care to deal with. What they choose to do is wrong, but it does not make everyone else guilty of assault, nor does it absolve you of any wrongdoing for attacking people randomly in the first place.


Nice analogy. So Saarkesian actually issued a death threat against someone? Did she publish other people's phone numbers or employment history?


I did not accuse anyone of the SJW's of making death threats. I did, however, accuse them of abusing people randomly and then playing the victim card when someone over-reacted. If you can't differentiate betwwen "slapping people in the face" and "greater force than you care to deal with", I'm not going to attempt to continue this debate. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Profit favors the prepared
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#65 - 2014-09-18 19:54:39 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:



Explain to me how "inflicting viewpoints" and sleeping her way to the top justifies death threats?

http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/27/6075179/anita-sarkeesian-says-she-was-driven-out-of-house-by-threats

And she faked the death threats then called the FBI herself? That makes a lot of sense. Really.


Honestly, I wouldnt be surprised if she staged the whole thing given her less than honest and forthcoming history in order to appear to be a White Knight herself, a Staunch Defender of Women Who has Bravely Fought For Women's Equality Even in the Midst of Death Threats to Her and Her Family. Praise Jah! Halleluja Amen!

I mean, look at her tweet:

I’m safe. Authorities have been notified. Staying with friends tonight. I’m not giving up. But this harassment of women in tech must stop


You can't tell me that doesn't sound very self-serving, I mean cmon. I AM THE CRUSADER! THIS EVIL MUST STOP! I AM NOT GIVING UP DESPITE THREATS TO MY LIFE! I AM A HERO!

O.o

Makes her look like quite the hero, while showing that she was right all along about the wicked, mysoginistict gaming community doesn't it? How very convenient. This may just be her "big break." O.o


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
colay Starwolf
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#66 - 2014-09-18 19:58:46 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:



Explain to me how "inflicting viewpoints" and sleeping her way to the top justifies death threats?

http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/27/6075179/anita-sarkeesian-says-she-was-driven-out-of-house-by-threats

And she faked the death threats then called the FBI herself? That makes a lot of sense. Really.


Honestly, I wouldnt be surprised if she staged the whole thing given her less than honest and forthcoming history in order to appear to be a White Knight herself, a Staunch Defender of Women Who has Bravely Fought For Women's Equality Even in the Midst of Death Threats to Her and Her Family. Praise Jah! Halleluja Amen!

I mean, look at her tweet:

I’m safe. Authorities have been notified. Staying with friends tonight. I’m not giving up. But this harassment of women in tech must stop


You can't tell me that doesn't sound very self-serving, I mean cmon. I AM THE CRUSADER! THIS EVIL MUST STOP! I AM NOT GIVING UP DESPITE THREATS TO MY LIFE! I AM A HERO!

O.o

Makes her look like quite the hero, while showing that she was right all along about the wicked, mysoginistict gaming community doesn't it? How very convenient. This may just be her "big break." O.o



then she asked for money

EvE is a big mmorpg ( Many Men Online Role Playing Girls) game
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2014-09-18 19:59:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Evei Shard wrote:


I did not accuse anyone of the SJW's of making death threats. I did, however, accuse them of abusing people randomly and then playing the victim card when someone over-reacted. If you can't differentiate betwwen "slapping people in the face" and "greater force than you care to deal with"



Death threats are not an appropriate response (ever) to "abusing people randomly" as you accuse SJWs of. The law agrees with me. Don't you?



*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.


Well, enjoy yourself.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#68 - 2014-09-18 20:10:20 UTC
This thread is a living example on how the media works on this: Instead of talking about the causes of GamerGate, there is a discussion about death threats and harassment. It went completely off-topic.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2014-09-18 20:15:46 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
This thread is a living example on how the media works on this: Instead of talking about the causes of GamerGate, there is a discussion about death threats and harassment. It went completely off-topic.


The harassment is completely on-topic. It is a representation of the gaming community and its excessive reaction to what amounts to bad journalism.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#70 - 2014-09-18 20:16:56 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
This thread is a living example on how the media works on this: Instead of talking about the causes of GamerGate, there is a discussion about death threats and harassment. It went completely off-topic.


Don't forget, every last one of us "gamers" is guilty of personally sending death threats to these SJW's.

Profit favors the prepared
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2014-09-18 20:19:38 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:


Don't forget, every last one of us "gamers" is guilty of personally sending death threats to these SJW's.


#gamergate isn't about you personally. It's about the community. Opinions on the topic should not be formed in a vacuum.


Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#72 - 2014-09-18 20:20:13 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
This thread is a living example on how the media works on this: Instead of talking about the causes of GamerGate, there is a discussion about death threats and harassment. It went completely off-topic.


The harassment is completely on-topic. It is a representation of the gaming community and its excessive reaction to what amounts to bad journalism.

It's an attempt to invalidate the opinion of the many with the actions of a few.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2014-09-18 20:22:18 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:

It's an attempt to invalidate the opinion of the many with the actions of a few.


And how do you feel about the actions that the few have taken on everyone's behalf?

Do you approve of them? Do you think they're completely irrelevant to the discussion?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#74 - 2014-09-18 20:28:20 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:

It's an attempt to invalidate the opinion of the many with the actions of a few.


And how do you feel about the actions that the few have taken on everyone's behalf?

Do you approve of them? Do you think they're completely irrelevant to the discussion?

I consider the questions completely irrelevant. Let the authorities deal with that.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#75 - 2014-09-18 20:40:28 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:

It's an attempt to invalidate the opinion of the many with the actions of a few.


And how do you feel about the actions that the few have taken on everyone's behalf?

Do you approve of them? Do you think they're completely irrelevant to the discussion?


So you know these people personally? Or have communicated with them enough to have been told that they made these threats on behalf of a community that for the most part doesn't even know they exist?

I don't recall voting for them to represent me or my friends.

And what is your personal problem with allowing the authorities to determine who is at fault, or if any crime was committed?

That's the problem with SJW's, they don't believe in "innocent until proven guilty", they believe in "guilty until we eliminate them, then we'll figure out what actually happened, and if it doesn't fit our agenda, we'll conveniently shove it under the rug."

Profit favors the prepared
Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#76 - 2014-09-18 20:42:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Riyria Twinpeaks
I may be naive, but in my opinion people don't mention "death threats are bad and an abominable response", because that should be clear to anyone who isn't completely out of touch with reality.

So there really isn't much to discuss about death threats.. everyone should agree that they are bad, really. I cannot imagine any remotely sensible and constructive discussion where people defend death threats.

On the other hand, discussion about sexism, what is?, what is not?, why? and so on .. you can have a discussion about those things.
So I understand why people would rather talk about that instead of letting the topic derail into a mutual confirmation of something which should be clear anyway: "Death threats are bad"

With the above I am talking about sensible people looking for a discussion.

Then there are trolls and maybe worse.
They naturally target the more controversial topic, too. As mentioned, nothing about death threats should be controversial.

So in my opinion, that's why more people talk about sexism in video games than death threats.

If there really are people who consider death threats alright, just because it isn't said at every opportunity (edit: that they aren't), then I really am worried for humanity..
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2014-09-18 21:10:14 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:

So you know these people personally? Or have communicated with them enough to have been told that they made these threats on behalf of a community that for the most part doesn't even know they exist?

I don't recall voting for them to represent me or my friends.

And what is your personal problem with allowing the authorities to determine who is at fault, or if any crime was committed?

That's the problem with SJW's, they don't believe in "innocent until proven guilty", they believe in "guilty until we eliminate them, then we'll figure out what actually happened, and if it doesn't fit our agenda, we'll conveniently shove it under the rug."


I think that one mistake I have made here, that you've pointed out, is in assuming that these threats are not staged. You (and Abrazzar) are right.. the authorities should deal with that and they shouldn't be treated as facts in an argument (as I have done).

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2014-09-18 21:14:38 UTC
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:

So there really isn't much to discuss about death threats.. everyone should agree that they are bad, really. I cannot imagine any remotely sensible and constructive discussion where people defend death threats.



Well that's a good point which I hadn't considered.


You don't post very often on the forums, but it's good you wrote something up that stopped me in my tracks.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#79 - 2014-09-18 21:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Abrazzar wrote:
This thread is a living example on how the media works on this: Instead of talking about the causes of GamerGate, there is a discussion about death threats and harassment. It went completely off-topic.



That was the goal of the threat and all the reason why I think it was fabricated.


Ironically, it's all about *some* women doing the very things that women will deliver the "not all women are like that" (NAWALT) line to us while one of the women who is proven to be like that is claiming to have been threatened while trying to indict an entire community, thus doing the very thing the motivates them to use the NAWALT line.

That's the kind of thinking that will destroy civilization. Not like I care though.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#80 - 2014-09-18 21:54:09 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


That's the kind of thinking that will destroy civilization. Not like I care though.


Oh man, that ship started sinking a long time ago. When I was younger I used to hope that the sheeyat would hit the fan in my lifetime so I could fight against it. Now I just want to live in peace and pretty much be left alone.


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project