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Questionable Maneuvering

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#41 - 2014-09-17 20:35:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Note that if you are going to have a second ship follow your freighter about web slinging it, that second ship can do other functions:

It can jump first and scout.
You can fleet with it, and get fleet bonuses to your tank, making you more survivable if attacked.
The second ship can have ECM and try to jam any attackers. Most freighter attacks are DPS based (not alpha strike based), meaning you do have time to lock and jam some attackers. Again, this increases the chance of survival.
The second ship could have remote reppers, again increasing your chance at survival.

As usual, Eve rewards cooperation.

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DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#42 - 2014-09-17 20:43:25 UTC
I have had this happen a few times, its actually quite funny (nte to op, cool trick not exploit) a few days ago, I was in a mastodon, I added an extra stab because I was going from a wh through 4 ls to jita and back cause I needed fuel. My alt made it to jita, on the way back, I got to the last LS before my WH system, jumped in the gate and there is a loki sitting on it waiting for me. I'm thinking crap.. i'm +3, if he has a faction and a normal scram i'm dead. so I initiate warp, remember i'm full of fuel, ofc he locks me, so i'm thinking ****! I see that he scrams me and i'm still moving, so i'm thinking awesome, I should be o-, he hits me with one volley of his guns, and my shield drops by 25%. Then he does something stupid... we webs me. The second he turned on his web *boom* I go to warp. I nearly laughed my ass off and was so tempted to say THANK YOU! in local. That's actually the 3rd time that has happened, and I get a kick out of it every time.

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Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#43 - 2014-09-17 21:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
On the other hand, it was perfectly OK for -10 players to get webbed to death by Faction police by this 'exploit', since pretty much forever - but nothing was actually fixed until pirates adapted and started using the mechanic to get kills.

Further, victims of this mechanic were generally just mad - because in this case, they couldn't just logoffski and escape as they usually did. No, they couldn't dock either, but they couldn't do that anyway because kickout stations still were a thing back then.


I'm not saying that web-slinging freighters shouldn't be a thing, just pointing out it simply doesn't make a lot of sense because warp off velocity is intended to be merely a % of maximum speed - and after webbing, maximum speed theoretically is calculated at the same time as current speed. If you were at 50% of warp velocity before the web, you would still be at 50% of warp velocity after the web, because webs modify both factors.

Because, simply by happy accident the game calculates one before factor the other (instead of the reverse) and leads to instawarping and other tricks, doesn't mean it really makes sense in terms of game mechanics.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#44 - 2014-09-17 21:33:50 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:

On the other hand, it was perfectly OK for -10 players to get webbed to death by Faction police by this 'exploit', since pretty much forever - but nothing was actually fixed until pirates adapted and started using the mechanic to get kills.

Further, victims of this mechanic were generally just mad - because in this case, they couldn't just logoffski and escape as they usually did. No, they couldn't dock either, but they couldn't do that anyway because kickout stations still were a thing back then.


Got it. You miss being able to use broken game mechanics for easy kills.

( ̲̅:̲̅:̲̅:̲̅[̲̅ ̲̅]̲̅:̲̅:̲̅:̲̅ ) Apply directly to the butthurt.

☼

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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2014-09-17 21:38:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
Herr Wilkus wrote:
On the other hand, it was perfectly OK for -10 players to get webbed to death by Faction police by this 'exploit', since pretty much forever - but nothing was actually fixed until pirates adapted and started using the mechanic to get kills.

Further, victims of this mechanic were generally just mad - because in this case, they couldn't just logoffski and escape as they usually did. No, they couldn't dock either, but they couldn't do that anyway because kickout stations still were a thing back then.


I'm not saying that web-slinging freighters shouldn't be a thing, just pointing out it simply doesn't make a lot of sense because warp off velocity is intended to be merely a % of maximum speed - and after webbing, maximum speed theoretically is calculated at the same time as current speed. If you were at 50% of warp velocity before the web, you would still be at 50% of warp velocity after the web, because webs modify both factors.

Because, simply by happy accident the game calculates one before factor the other (instead of the reverse) and leads to instawarping and other tricks, doesn't mean it really makes sense in terms of game mechanics.


Someone using a kickout for a jf is not to be pittied.

Additionally its a difference when the webbs are applied and if it were Faction webs from a bonused ship.
If you web a freighter right when it aligns...it will not reach warp speed in time for your kids to finish high school. Webs need to be applied when the freighter already has picked up speed.
The tactic that (I think) Garmon and freinds used (which later was declared an exploit) was a combination of faction webs, bonused ships and the right timing and technique. I personally liked the tactic.

Webbing a freighter in warp can be done with any ship with a t1 webb.

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Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#46 - 2014-09-17 21:44:48 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:

On the other hand, it was perfectly OK for -10 players to get webbed to death by Faction police by this 'exploit', since pretty much forever - but nothing was actually fixed until pirates adapted and started using the mechanic to get kills.

Further, victims of this mechanic were generally just mad - because in this case, they couldn't just logoffski and escape as they usually did. No, they couldn't dock either, but they couldn't do that anyway because kickout stations still were a thing back then.


Got it. You miss being able to use broken game mechanics for easy kills.

( ̲̅:̲̅:̲̅:̲̅[̲̅ ̲̅]̲̅:̲̅:̲̅:̲̅ ) Apply directly to the butthurt.


Nope, never did this, just heard a lot of talk when it was briefly a hot topic. Thought it was clever for pirates to recreate the conditions that get them killed by Face-Po on a regular basis. (locked up by endless webs, no cancel of warp, no docking, etc....)

I just think the victims were mad that their usual 'get out of jail free exploit' logoffski trick stopped working in this case.

Victims were used to 'pulling the network cable' to escape the consequences of a badly timed undock from a kickout station.

Didn't work in this case, surprise, surprise - so commence to shedding tears.

CCP runs to kiss the boo-boo, as they usually do.
Solecist Project
#47 - 2014-09-17 21:54:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Herr Wilkus wrote:
On the other hand, it was perfectly OK for -10 players to get webbed to death by Faction police by this 'exploit', since pretty much forever - but nothing was actually fixed until pirates adapted and started using the mechanic to get kills.
I can confirm this.

Yes, I am seriously confirming something Herr Wilkus says ... lol ....

Lost my Rokh in Osmon to the faction police.

Instead of webbing me to warp ...
... I got stuck from their webs and they blew me away.

That happened after, like, me warping around on grid for five minutes already ...
... waiting for idiots to be dumb enough to engage my motherf****** Rokh ... ;)

That pissed me off bigtime,
because there was no "legitimate" way I could have lost it, ever.


Most players are way too boring to be considered a threat ...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#48 - 2014-09-17 22:18:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Herr Wilkus wrote:
just pointing out it simply doesn't make a lot of sense because warp off velocity is intended to be merely a % of maximum speed
…which is why web-slinging makes a lot of sense: because you are simply altering the maximum speed, not the current one.

Quote:
maximum speed theoretically is calculated at the same time as current speed.
So? The two calculations have nothing to do with each other. Altering the parameters for one does not alter the parameters for the other, so it wouldn't make any sense if they changed in unison.
Solecist Project
#49 - 2014-09-17 23:20:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
maximum speed theoretically is calculated at the same time as current speed.
So? The two calculations have nothing to do with each other. Altering the parameters for one does not alter the parameters for the other, so it wouldn't make any sense if they changed in unison.
I hereby dismiss my own post,
because I seem to have completely forgotten how this **** works. -.-

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#50 - 2014-09-18 00:33:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
It is quite surprising how many people don't know how a web works.


Here is a simple experiment to help:

Travel at constant 30% un-webbed velocity, and get webbed by a T2 webifier.
1. Note what your new webbed velocity is, in m/s and %.
2. Note what your new max velocity is, in m/s and %.
3. Did your velocity m/s change?
4. Did your velocity % change?
5. Is your webbed velocity higher than the new max velocity?
6. Did your m/s change instantly ["brick wall"], gradually ["molasses"], or not at all?

Repeat for 75% and 100% un-webbed velocity. Notice anything different?

Bonus: How fast (%) do you have to be travelling at before being webbed, to be travelling at 75% after being webbed?
Clementina
University of Caille
#51 - 2014-09-18 16:15:25 UTC
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think faction police or other NPC webs are slightly different than normal webs because they actually affect agility.
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