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Frigate Hole needs...
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Fehyd Rautha
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-09-17 10:51:27 UTC
Wouldn't mind some CS styled destroyers. On the other hand, not sure how I feel about putting billing isk clones in paper thin hulls. :P
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#42 - 2014-09-17 11:13:38 UTC
Kynric wrote:
Axloth Okiah wrote:
yeah, more off-grid faggotry, thats exactly what we need...


Unfortunately, the lack of frigate/destroyer sized link boats will not make for a link less fight. It just results in only the home team having links. The home team already has a tremendous advantage in what they can bring to the fight. As such a destroyer or frigate sized command boat would be appreciated.



If they decided to make a frigate/destroyer-sized command platform (T2 logistics frigs?), I would say that you'd need to make sure that the bonuses were smaller. This would lower the boost differential between the homefield and the foreign, but not eliminate completely if home fielders wield BC-sized links.

BC-scale links on Frigs would be too OP IMO.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#43 - 2014-09-17 14:19:59 UTC
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Greed and entitlement of the carebear are infinite.


Whatever do you mean?

If you want people to "do stuff" in wormholes, there's a food chain effect. I can't PVP if there's nobody in the chains. Bears provide targets for gankers which makes them the plankton of this ecosystem.

Or maybe you think everybody just goes around yelling "PVP for the PVP BOB!" and we come running?



I mean those comments that demand increasing rewards in wormholes, or reducing risks.

100-120mil/hr in C3s, +200mil/hr in C4s, minimum 250mil/hr and higher in C5/C6s. Not sure how little people make in C2s, but the ships required to run there are yet cheaper again. IMHO demanding higher rewards is absurdly greedy.

Pre-Hype bears only ran sites in sealed holes, these days they claim to stay possed up or logged off. There's very little difference to the net effect of their existence, except that rib prices are slowly recovering.

None of the daily fights* we've had since Hype have been connected to PVE activities, I guess people do run around searching for Bob PVP parties.

* yeah, a fight every night when I've been logged in. Moving to C4 space was a thorough success, and feels like a PVP paradise after the desolation of C5s.




Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#44 - 2014-09-17 14:49:00 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
I mean those comments that demand increasing rewards in wormholes, or reducing risks.

100-120mil/hr in C3s, +200mil/hr in C4s, minimum 250mil/hr and higher in C5/C6s. Not sure how little people make in C2s, but the ships required to run there are yet cheaper again. IMHO demanding higher rewards is absurdly greedy.

Pre-Hype bears only ran sites in sealed holes, these days they claim to stay possed up or logged off. There's very little difference to the net effect of their existence, except that rib prices are slowly recovering.


Regardless of who you are in wspace, bear, pvp'er or something in between, everyone need isk to feed their habbits. You do not make 100-120m/hr in a c3 solo. The more people you add to the party the less cut a share.

Best of the combat anoms in a c3 is the Outpost Frontier Stronghold it drops 32.5m in blues + salvage. The time and risk it take to do solo (if you bring your alts, its not solo tbh). Incursion and level 4 missions have better payout than this for time and effort spent.

If reward should match the risk and effort, the rewards should be greater in wspace than high sec right? So boost wspace or nerf high sec?
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#45 - 2014-09-17 15:07:16 UTC
Ruffio Sepico wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
I mean those comments that demand increasing rewards in wormholes, or reducing risks.

100-120mil/hr in C3s, +200mil/hr in C4s, minimum 250mil/hr and higher in C5/C6s. Not sure how little people make in C2s, but the ships required to run there are yet cheaper again. IMHO demanding higher rewards is absurdly greedy.

Pre-Hype bears only ran sites in sealed holes, these days they claim to stay possed up or logged off. There's very little difference to the net effect of their existence, except that rib prices are slowly recovering.


Regardless of who you are in wspace, bear, pvp'er or something in between, everyone need isk to feed their habbits. You do not make 100-120m/hr in a c3 solo. The more people you add to the party the less cut a share.

Best of the combat anoms in a c3 is the Outpost Frontier Stronghold it drops 32.5m in blues + salvage. The time and risk it take to do solo (if you bring your alts, its not solo tbh). Incursion and level 4 missions have better payout than this for time and effort spent.

If reward should match the risk and effort, the rewards should be greater in wspace than high sec right? So boost wspace or nerf high sec?



No, I haven't ran C3s solo, those figures are what we made in C3s with our team setup, per pilot. I'm not sure why you think solo income is relevant in wormholes, 99% of all inhabitants are members of corporations.

Incursions and L4s require a much higher ship and gear investment to reach the same income levels as C3 sites.

Rewards match the risk and effort pretty nicely in w-space, if you think hisec makes better money, by all means make your choices based on your own preferences. There's many of us who don't really care about ISK that much, and make our choices based on other criteria. Like for example having fun while playing.
Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#46 - 2014-09-17 15:26:42 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:

No, I haven't ran C3s solo, those figures are what we made in C3s with our team setup, per pilot. I'm not sure why you think solo income is relevant in wormholes, 99% of all inhabitants are members of corporations.

Incursions and L4s require a much higher ship and gear investment to reach the same income levels as C3 sites.

Rewards match the risk and effort pretty nicely in w-space, if you think hisec makes better money, by all means make your choices based on your own preferences. There's many of us who don't really care about ISK that much, and make our choices based on other criteria. Like for example having fun while playing.



If I bring 5 guys to farm a c3 system for sites, like 4 guys in cheapo bc's and some other guy to trail behind in a noctis. Can probably knock down an anom every 5 minute or so, but when you share that end of the day, you are no where near 120m hour still.

The isk/hr in wspace is over rated and not very accurate. The number of sites can be very limited to start with. You can roll your static to look for pve, but for every system you roll you need to scout and map it and take safety measures before you start do pve.

and sure having fun while playing is key. You can have fun do pvp, blow **** up and get blown up. But you still need to cover your expenses. If you lose a bill proteus during pvp, it would be nice to have isk replace it.

I tell my guys if they want to go into wspace, its not about make isk, its about the way of living. But the later doesn't exclude the other.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2014-09-17 15:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Why people still keep quoting per hour figures when talking about wormhole sites is beyond me... It only applies to isk sources that are renewable!

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#48 - 2014-09-17 15:36:19 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Why people still keep quoting per hour figures when talking about wormhole sites is beyond me... It only applies to isk sources that are renewable!


Which is exactly what wormhole anomalies are. Clean a system, roll the next one. Cap escs at home obvious exception.
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#49 - 2014-09-17 16:09:23 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Why people still keep quoting per hour figures when talking about wormhole sites is beyond me... It only applies to isk sources that are renewable!


Which is exactly what wormhole anomalies are. Clean a system, roll the next one. Cap escs at home obvious exception.


Wait, so RNGing for a quiet hole full of anoms (not even taking rolltime and -risk into account) is your definition of renewable, but capsites in your hole you control and you can run for 3-4 days are not? Question
And even if highsec and lowend wh income was about the same isk/h it would be ok because higsecrunners put more money on the line? "The line" being being stupid because that is the only reason to die in highsec, compared to lowend wormholes that are by the mechanics the most dangerous space there is? Question
Maker Atavuli
Atavuli Exploration Society
#50 - 2014-09-17 17:45:20 UTC
Pavel Sohaj wrote:
Frig holes need an actual small wormhole that has 2 exits and only such smalls can fly in it. NO home advantage, system for purely frig fights. Otherwise its completely useless connection that only annoys people.


I second this. Once I got over the frig hole blues it seems there are some great opportunities for CCP to turn this into a popular win. If they would offer some incentive for frigs to actually enter a WH in the first place this could work into a nice feature. Think about it, if the rewards are high enough to mitigate some of the risk you could get a fair amount of pew AND have a chance to run some new content. There are days when there is no way in heck you would run sites, not enough folks, connection to a crappy part of K space, whatever. We all have those days for a number of reasons. So why not add some solo or very small gang frig only deadspace type pockets where you are limited to frigs only with really nice rewards. T3's tend to be king in W space simply because they are the correct tool for the job in most instances. I can't help but think that adding content to wormholes as a draw to newer players would be a good thing.

I am NOT crazy they made me take my medication this morning!
Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#51 - 2014-09-17 17:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruffio Sepico
Maker Atavuli wrote:
Pavel Sohaj wrote:
Frig holes need an actual small wormhole that has 2 exits and only such smalls can fly in it. NO home advantage, system for purely frig fights. Otherwise its completely useless connection that only annoys people.


I second this. Once I got over the frig hole blues it seems there are some great opportunities for CCP to turn this into a popular win. If they would offer some incentive for frigs to actually enter a WH in the first place this could work into a nice feature. Think about it, if the rewards are high enough to mitigate some of the risk you could get a fair amount of pew AND have a chance to run some new content. There are days when there is no way in heck you would run sites, not enough folks, connection to a crappy part of K space, whatever. We all have those days for a number of reasons. So why not add some solo or very small gang frig only deadspace type pockets where you are limited to frigs only with really nice rewards. T3's tend to be king in W space simply because they are the correct tool for the job in most instances. I can't help but think that adding content to wormholes as a draw to newer players would be a good thing.


Well, I guess such a type of holes with frig only connections, could have like "burner" like sleepers with special rewards, that make them worth pursue, and worth fight over. Players would be more prone to go into a system with frigs only if ships of same size was the only risk to face there (player wise).
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