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Frigate Hole needs...

Author
Eve The Charitable
A.A.A
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2014-09-15 12:03:01 UTC
Small things are ****, not neat. Frig holes may as well be removed for all I care.
HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-09-15 12:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: HerrBert
Agatir Solenth wrote:

Um you joined in 2013... I don't think you know what keeps players.

My hauler alt has more SP than your main.

If you want the benefits skill up or get out! Not everyone gets the trophy for showing up.


Where do I start with you... Oh I got an Idea. Verpiss dich. Okay thats covered.
As you may know CCP is not really in the Business of "Rolling Back" stuff which given CCP, well lets just admit they would fix sov before rolling back to dominion. Although lots of Highranking asshats (those who control the 2 null faction) even admit that Eve is getting hard numbers wise (aka Eve is dying).

Many people have asked for a better "Progression" even for noobs and to some extend in Eve we have this with certain functions, as for example the EAF, which are legit. So you have a "minimal" skill requirments and ISK req. for training for the next stage which would be the Recon, since "EWAR" has alot of subset skills and later Widow (lol).

The same could be said for the Leadership skills as they are just "STUPID" in its current iteration for newcomers. The only valid option if you train leadership, is to train all of them, since the social attribution points are quite "useless" so you have 14m SP at a rate of lets 2.5k SP per hour. So after 233 Days you are done with that. GREAT! After 7months (ROUGH ESTIMATE).
As you can see I see problems with Noobs dipping into Leadership and the idea of Learrning-drag skilling comes really close to mind.

Now a good friend of mine was concerned with "OFF-Grid" Boosting, which easily can be combated by certain limitations by the Frigate Class itself, as example would be that frigs get a 2% per T2 Level with an additional penalty of only being useful ON GRID.

So yeeeaaaah in terms of progression and making "Leaderships Skills" useful between 0 and Max SP ... a frigate would be nice. (T3 Frigate *HODOR*)[that would be alittle rough on subsystem skills xD]



Also "having" alts to deal with boosting is a pathetic thing in terms of mechanics... but thats another Issue


EDIT: T2 Logistics frigs would be AWESOME! It took an AT to make Bantams look "legit"

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-09-15 13:48:55 UTC
People that are saying "just get rid of them" need to wake up. CCP will keep whatever it wants. Make positive suggestions to move it forward or GTFO.

To people that say we don't need to aim for newbies, I say you're wrong. Almost every other skill progression has multiple levels of usefulness, usually with points of mastery. Like generally when training guns someone will probably get T2 small before they move up. They don't HAVE to , but it's more common than not.

As such, I suggest that there be some sort of destroyer command ship option, but it should be maxed out with just the basic warfare skills, and maybe a mindlink. Don't allow the specializations to apply to the boat, and don't give it too much % bonus to skills on the hull. This would make something that people could use to enable frig fleets to be just a bit more competitive. Home field advantage will still be very steep, but this will help some.

What we should be aiming for, IMHO, is to help frig gangs realistically attack people who are running home sites, including capital escalations, without needing 100+ people. I'm not sure what a more realistic number would be, but it would be nice to buff frigs a bit.

Of course, this buff would also mean that roaming frig gangs would be much more powerful, assuming that they weren't using command ship links before. That said, most of K-space would just use command ships because they already are and they'd still be better. They command destroyer concept therefore would be strictly for high-mobility roams, newbies, and WH roams.

I think this idea might actually be quite reasonable and not upset too much of the rest of the game.

Oh, could you make this new ship be built with WH loot please? Maybe that would bump up prices a bit. Write some lore about "sleeper gang assistance technology found by bla bla bla Sleepers bla bla bla Talocan bla bla etc."

Just like, my opinion, man.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-09-15 13:58:58 UTC  |  Edited by: HerrBert
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
People that are saying "just get rid of them" need to wake up. CCP will keep whatever it wants. Make positive suggestions to move it forward or GTFO.

To people that say we don't need to aim for newbies, I say you're wrong. Almost every other skill progression has multiple levels of usefulness, usually with points of mastery. Like generally when training guns someone will probably get T2 small before they move up. They don't HAVE to , but it's more common than not.

As such, I suggest that there be some sort of destroyer command ship option, but it should be maxed out with just the basic warfare skills, and maybe a mindlink. Don't allow the specializations to apply to the boat, and don't give it too much % bonus to skills on the hull. This would make something that people could use to enable frig fleets to be just a bit more competitive. Home field advantage will still be very steep, but this will help some.

What we should be aiming for, IMHO, is to help frig gangs realistically attack people who are running home sites, including capital escalations, without needing 100+ people. I'm not sure what a more realistic number would be, but it would be nice to buff frigs a bit.

Of course, this buff would also mean that roaming frig gangs would be much more powerful, assuming that they weren't using command ship links before. That said, most of K-space would just use command ships because they already are and they'd still be better. They command destroyer concept therefore would be strictly for high-mobility roams, newbies, and WH roams.

I think this idea might actually be quite reasonable and not upset too much of the rest of the game.

Oh, could you make this new ship be built with WH loot please? Maybe that would bump up prices a bit. Write some lore about "sleeper gang assistance technology found by bla bla bla Sleepers bla bla bla Talocan bla bla etc."

Just like, my opinion, man.



Tech 2 Talwar: The Scarabeus

Edit: Minor correction. Kspace rather works with T3 Boosters since they are easier to move. (Cloak + Interdiction Nullified)


Another methode would be a debuff Item for T3 Boosters that makes them able to jump frigate holes but has some serious drawbacks for tanking, but that would screw up alot of things.

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-09-15 14:08:21 UTC
Saw this and had to think of Frigate holes

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#26 - 2014-09-15 14:42:53 UTC
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
What we should be aiming for, IMHO, is to help frig gangs realistically attack people who are running home sites, including capital escalations, without needing 100+ people. I'm not sure what a more realistic number would be, but it would be nice to buff frigs a bit.

Of course, this buff would also mean that roaming frig gangs would be much more powerful, assuming that they weren't using command ship links before. That said, most of K-space would just use command ships because they already are and they'd still be better. They command destroyer concept therefore would be strictly for high-mobility roams, newbies, and WH roams.

I think this idea might actually be quite reasonable and not upset too much of the rest of the game.

Oh, could you make this new ship be built with WH loot please? Maybe that would bump up prices a bit. Write some lore about "sleeper gang assistance technology found by bla bla bla Sleepers bla bla bla Talocan bla bla etc."

Just like, my opinion, man.


So if frig holes already scare people from do stuff in the system, why would increase the danger possible coming through such holes make that situation better? Last time I checked people sitting at pos playing WOT or whatever, doesn't increase content in wspace.




HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-09-15 14:46:51 UTC
I refer you to this topic http://redd.it/2gfy6n

or as I would put it:

Content creation in eve is the worst discussion ever. Its called "playing" the GAME!

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-09-15 15:28:08 UTC
People who are too scared to come out of their POS are people who I don't care about. Choosing to not play makes you irrelevant.

Herrbert, that's a fun idea, but then I'd just jump my T3 "boosting ship" fleet in, and then refit inside back to DPS murder. Not a good fix. Love the out of the box thinking though.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-09-15 15:33:00 UTC  |  Edited by: HerrBert
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
People who are too scared to come out of their POS are people who I don't care about. Choosing to not play makes you irrelevant.

Herrbert, that's a fun idea, but then I'd just jump my T3 "boosting ship" fleet in, and then refit inside back to DPS murder. Not a good fix. Love the out of the box thinking though.



make it a rig xD or worse ... add it to the "boosting" subsystem... XD

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#30 - 2014-09-15 15:45:42 UTC
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
People who are too scared to come out of their POS are people who I don't care about. Choosing to not play makes you irrelevant..


Tbh I dont think we can afford to rate anyone as irrelevant, because last time I checked wspace isn't flowing over of active players. Imho players need to be encouraged to play in wspace. More active players playing, more interaction between them.

The food chain need all kinds to thrive.



MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-09-15 15:54:43 UTC
Ruffio Sepico wrote:
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
People who are too scared to come out of their POS are people who I don't care about. Choosing to not play makes you irrelevant..


Tbh I dont think we can afford to rate anyone as irrelevant, because last time I checked wspace isn't flowing over of active players. Imho players need to be encouraged to play in wspace. More active players playing, more interaction between them.

The food chain need all kinds to thrive.






Yeah, but if you're too scared of the monsters in the dark then you're irrelevant. I know that wormholes are hard and dangerous, but that's what I like about them. I don't want to make them less of either. Rather, I'd like them to be/remain very hard so they reward people with more diligence/experience/understanding.

I think that my proposal supports that.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#32 - 2014-09-15 16:53:27 UTC
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
Ruffio Sepico wrote:
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
People who are too scared to come out of their POS are people who I don't care about. Choosing to not play makes you irrelevant..


Tbh I dont think we can afford to rate anyone as irrelevant, because last time I checked wspace isn't flowing over of active players. Imho players need to be encouraged to play in wspace. More active players playing, more interaction between them.

The food chain need all kinds to thrive.






Yeah, but if you're too scared of the monsters in the dark then you're irrelevant. I know that wormholes are hard and dangerous, but that's what I like about them. I don't want to make them less of either. Rather, I'd like them to be/remain very hard so they reward people with more diligence/experience/understanding.

I think that my proposal supports that.



You would first need to increase the incentive to do stuff, before you increase even a greater risk. The last patch did to a greater extent remove the incentive to do things for a lot of players. Feeling risk and effort is to great for the rewards. Increasing the risk even more, would just make it even worse.

It doesn't help say we dont need risk averse players in the first place, because priority number one should be to increase the wspace population and it take all kinds imho.

MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-09-15 16:57:33 UTC
Well, there we can agree. Wormholes need better rewards for most things other than capital escalations. This will naturally make it easier for people to afford to live there even if they lose ships to pvp banditos. This is a known issue and one that I believe Corbexx is working on.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#34 - 2014-09-16 04:53:04 UTC
Greed and entitlement of the carebear are infinite.
MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-09-16 14:17:26 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Greed and entitlement of the carebear are infinite.


Whatever do you mean?

If you want people to "do stuff" in wormholes, there's a food chain effect. I can't PVP if there's nobody in the chains. Bears provide targets for gankers which makes them the plankton of this ecosystem.

Or maybe you think everybody just goes around yelling "PVP for the PVP BOB!" and we come running?

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#36 - 2014-09-16 15:03:03 UTC
T3 frig would be sweet if they added t3 frigate skill and separate subsystem skills for the frig.
Otherwise loosing t3 frig would hurt your t3 cruiser flying wich wouldnt make t3 frigates really popular to fly. Big smile
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#37 - 2014-09-16 17:05:50 UTC
Agatir Solenth wrote:
HerrBert wrote:
Frigate Command Ship!


As some that spent the time to get the SP to fly a Command Ships and all the skills to support it, this is a terrible idea.

You don't give things to those that have less invested in this game. Let's get an idea that promotes vets to stay, rather than benefitting the noobs.

If you want frigates go to low-sec & try faction warfare.



Destroyer command ships are a good idea. And its not as if you wont have to train all the same skills as for a BC CS also the dieas thrown around on F&I about this theorized they would have not as good bonuses.
HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2014-09-16 17:11:45 UTC
Icarus Able wrote:
Agatir Solenth wrote:
HerrBert wrote:
Frigate Command Ship!


As some that spent the time to get the SP to fly a Command Ships and all the skills to support it, this is a terrible idea.

You don't give things to those that have less invested in this game. Let's get an idea that promotes vets to stay, rather than benefitting the noobs.

If you want frigates go to low-sec & try faction warfare.



Destroyer command ships are a good idea. And its not as if you wont have to train all the same skills as for a BC CS also the dieas thrown around on F&I about this theorized they would have not as good bonuses.



I m working on a project for "highlighting the pros and cons" hopefully its gonna be good .. kinda nervous about it :)

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#39 - 2014-09-17 10:22:09 UTC
Icarus Able wrote:


Destroyer command ships are a good idea. And its not as if you wont have to train all the same skills as for a BC CS also the dieas thrown around on F&I about this theorized they would have not as good bonuses.


You need to buff rewards before you buff frigate sized fleets (at least in the context of w-space).
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-09-17 10:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
HerrBert wrote:

I m working on a project for "highlighting the pros and cons" hopefully its gonna be good .. kinda nervous about it :)


They will be like command ships with less tank but more speed... End of project. Blink
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