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Player Owned Customs Offices: Math, Markets and Design Problems

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#281 - 2011-12-07 08:19:19 UTC
The titan in my pants is certainly doing a HTFU impression at the tinfoilhattery expressed by some of the posters in these PI threads.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#282 - 2011-12-07 08:54:20 UTC
Alisarina wrote:
TL;DR version:

People: QQ!!! CCP wtf you do with PI taxes?!?! You have destroyed the game...I'm going to quit

Other people: Cool, go, can I have your stuffz

Smart people: PI tax is fine, POCO are fine. Learn to adapt and HTFU or GTFO of PI and go back to incursions/mining/insert other activity.

There is alot more subtleties in the thread and other things been covered, but thats the basics with no flesh.

EDIT: also forgot the bitching and moaning towards teh goons, but that's normal from people being jelly of them. Again the general consensus is for them to HTFU too.


Who said anything about any of the posters (at least that I've noticed) quitting?

You left out the usual nullsec whining about highsec having too many isk faucets and not enough being herded into lowsec because PvP players haven't had enough easy kills, as well as the usual posting alt tomfoolery.

Lord Zim wrote:
The titan in my pants is certainly doing a HTFU impression at the tinfoilhattery expressed by some of the posters in these PI threads.


Put that noobship away.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#283 - 2011-12-07 09:39:27 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Who said anything about any of the posters (at least that I've noticed) quitting?

You left out the usual nullsec whining about highsec having too many isk faucets and not enough being herded into lowsec because PvP players haven't had enough easy kills, as well as the usual posting alt tomfoolery.


i am an honourable player who does not engage in any pvp at all whatsoever

*strongarms 20 other PI producers out of a market*

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#284 - 2011-12-07 09:54:50 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Who said anything about any of the posters (at least that I've noticed) quitting?

You haven't been looking very hard at the myriad of posters saying "that's it, I'm quitting because of PI!", have you?

There's been tons.

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
You left out the usual nullsec whining about highsec having too many isk faucets and not enough being herded into lowsec because PvP players haven't had enough easy kills, as well as the usual posting alt tomfoolery.

If you must call pointing out the fact that lots of people left nullsec to go incursioning in hisec instead, for whining, sure. Go ahead. You'd be wrong, but go right ahead. I'll just put that in the same basket as your other "the goons are protesting too much, there must be a nefarious reason behind this, I just have to find it! A HA! The devblog for POCOs were released 'shortly' before crucible, so now the goons must be hitting lowsec POCOs!" vOv

As to the lowsec POCOs, please don't mention that to boat, he'll go at them structures like a pig after truffles. :cripes:

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#285 - 2011-12-07 10:42:40 UTC
quick quick broadcast for caps and supers THIS POCO WILL BURN

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#286 - 2011-12-07 10:48:51 UTC
No no no no nooooo shut up shut up shut up no more structures mommy please I'll be good

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#287 - 2011-12-07 11:08:30 UTC
for a bit of fun, can you doomsday the interbus CO's and POCO's?

Could make for some funny vids if you could with a few titans DDing a POCO with the caption 'GTFO my lawn!'. It would be mildly amusing, even though it wouldn't kill it.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#288 - 2011-12-07 11:22:24 UTC
Alisarina wrote:
for a bit of fun, can you doomsday the interbus CO's and POCO's?

Could make for some funny vids if you could with a few titans DDing a POCO with the caption 'GTFO my lawn!'. It would be mildly amusing, even though it wouldn't kill it.


can't DD structures

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#289 - 2011-12-08 01:19:33 UTC
When I was reloading my Erebus shooting an Interbus CO, I kinda wished I had cross trained to a Rev on my dread char so I could just totally afk this sort of thing.

hey team papercuts where is my 'resume shooting after reloading' option

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#290 - 2011-12-08 16:59:42 UTC
pmchem wrote:
When I was reloading my Erebus shooting an Interbus CO, I kinda wished I had cross trained to a Rev on my dread char so I could just totally afk this sort of thing.

hey team papercuts where is my 'resume shooting after reloading' option


we are the 1%

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#291 - 2011-12-08 22:20:09 UTC
pmchem wrote:
When I was reloading my Erebus shooting an Interbus CO, I kinda wished I had cross trained to a Rev on my dread char so I could just totally afk this sort of thing.

hey team papercuts where is my 'resume shooting after reloading' option



Probably wherever they put loot corps suggestion for a 'target, fire, armor rep, and warp if we're outnumbered' button.
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
#292 - 2011-12-09 14:49:02 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

If you must call pointing out the fact that lots of people left nullsec to go incursioning in hisec instead, for whining, sure. Go ahead. You'd be wrong, but go right ahead.


Meh. The only difference between easily mocked whining and calling out valid points is who's side you are on....

At the end of the day, this changed had winners and losers. Some people were nerfed, some people were buffed. Naturally the people who got a buff are happy, and the people who got nerfed are not. Same applies to the concepts behind the change.. some people see the direction the developers are trying to push people as 'correct' and thus good, others see the push as taking forcing people into playstyles they don't enjoy. Thus again, whining and legitimate points depend on which side of that opinion one is on.
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
#293 - 2011-12-09 16:42:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Nekopyat
Bleh.

I finally got to sit down and figure out the taxes for my worst case production run... maybe prices will continue to adjust, but for the moment high sec robotics at least are doing pretty badly.

Taxes come out to 91k (using 4 production and 1 factory planet) while buy/sell orders run from 56k-75k.

So for the time being, those intermediate taxes are real killers.

(edited to add - going to have to recheck these numbers though...)
(edited again)

Yep, the numbers were screwy. The market has actually adjusted nicely.

In the mentioned setup, it takes 240 units each of 4 P1 materials, which combined have an export tax of 48,000 and import tax of 24,000. This produces 9 units of Robotics, which has an export tax of 63,000, for a total tax burden of 135,000.

Currently robotics sell for 56,000-75,000 each, so 504,000-675,000 for the batch, which is a nice profit. It would still be nice if intermediate taxing was handled differently, but this does not currently break P1->P3 factories at least.
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#294 - 2011-12-10 02:30:32 UTC
Nekopyat wrote:

Yep, the numbers were screwy. The market has actually adjusted nicely.


Yeah, as I posted elsewhere -- the pre-crucible speculation and tax effects are kind of cancelling each other out for large segments of the market. Everything is going quite smoothly and no tax cut is needed. If anything, raise them even higher.

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Setamies
Morgrath Ventures
#295 - 2011-12-11 00:26:01 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Alisarina wrote:
TL;DR version:

Smart people: PI tax is fine, POCO are fine. Learn to adapt and HTFU or GTFO of PI and go back to incursions/mining/insert other activity.



Noone on the PI production sides could give two ***** if the prices go up or down when the costs for producing do the same.

Understand this. The prices will go down again, probably to the levels they were before, and POCO owners will be able to produce even cheaper than before. But the problem we have with the changes is that it now requires a very large investment for a not-so-large and unreliable income.
The investment is a bit over a billion per character for the moment. Personally I use three characters on two accounts, and need no less than ten POCOs to keep it going, for a grand total of 2,5 billion.

That is not adapting. That is paying up nicely, or moving to something else. Using the NPC POCOs will cause losses. You WILL lose money every time you export stuff from those.
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#296 - 2011-12-11 01:00:58 UTC
Strange, I'm making millions per planet per day on all of my characters doing PI in high sec on factory planets. With you saying if you don't use POCO's you loose money it seems I'm breaking your rule.

Also if prices for lower tier materials goes up, but the next tier stays the same, then no, you are not making the same as before. In fact your making less if your making the next tier of product, and making more if your making the previous tier of goods. So the materials cost is up, so the 'cost of producing' will not go up proportionally or down.

Some people have gotten out of the market which to me personally is a good thing. It means less competition for materials and less undercutters when I go to sell.

If I missed the mark on what you ment I'm sorry.
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#297 - 2011-12-11 05:34:58 UTC
Alisarina wrote:
Strange, I'm making millions per planet per day on all of my characters doing PI in high sec on factory planets. With you saying if you don't use POCO's you loose money it seems I'm breaking your rule.


it's because he is bad at eve and life

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
bilingi
Grandeur Illusions
#298 - 2011-12-11 18:37:16 UTC
MAYBE hes bad or maybe the other dudes lieing like you usually do?
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#299 - 2011-12-11 23:03:45 UTC
bilingi wrote:
MAYBE hes bad or maybe the other dudes lieing like you usually do?


yes, by being exactly correct in all my posts in this thread it means I usually lie

good call

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#300 - 2011-12-11 23:06:45 UTC
pmchem wrote:
bilingi wrote:
MAYBE hes bad or maybe the other dudes lieing like you usually do?


yes, by being exactly correct in all my posts in this thread it means I usually lie

good call


pmchem is the Good Goon Faerie.Shocked

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon