Warfare & Tactics

XG

Look at what I wrote and then look at what you wrote. It was only one sentence but you still got it wrong. Really? Right back at you.

The question is what effect did the gallente alts have on your taking all systems. (Its not a childish game of "the caldari are worse!" "No the gallente are worse!") Crosi and others claim they had very little effect. And others have said we are using too many absolutes. I agree. Its not all plexing alts. But I think its pretty clear that without them instead of capturing all systems gallente would be lucky to hit tier 2.

Do you dispute that if Gallente had no plexing alts they would have been lucky to hit tier 2? Yes of course Gallente would be overrun by the plexing alts of Caldari and Amarr if they don't get plexing alts of their own. That is why I don't blame the players I blame the mechanics that make plexing alts so influential.

BTW:
I love reading those who went along with your 180 degree misrepresentation of what I wrote and whine about it. Reading skills are apparently scarce.

Where did I say otherwise? I never said anything about what would happen if Caldari had no plexing alts.

It will help if you read what I wrote, and not what XG claims I wrote. I said "if gallente had no alts plexing for them they would be lucky to hit tier 2 and probably would be wiped out." I never said anything about what would happen if Caldari alts were removed.

Again the issue is how important were the gallente alts in this last campaign. A few posters said they weren't that important. They were.

You and XG and a few others just reinterpret what I wrote to be the typical bickering we see on the forums where each militia blames the other for having alts or farmers or whatever. Thats not what I said, and is not my point. The problem is all the militias are forced to have alts rabbit plexing if they want to win the occupancy war. This is boring game play and its why so few people care who wins the occupancy war.

The problem is the mechanics that make these rabbit alts so effective. (timer rolbacks and better intel is the solution) The problem is not one militia or the other. The players are just playing according to the mechanics.

Yes I am saying that rabbit plexing is key to the occupancy war. If you try to fight without them you are doomed to failure. The other side will use them and the current mechanics are such that they have a huge impact on the war.

Some people said the gallente plexing alts were not that important during their last push. In order to determine how important something is, consider what would happen if it were removed. I think they were very important and without the gallente plexing alts you would be lucky to hit tier 2. Now that you understand what I wrote, do you agree?

Ok we disagree. I am confident that if the gallente had no alts plexing they would be sitting at tier 1 - at least most of the time. The alts from the amarr and caldari would overwhelm them. (I should clarify that I mean if gallente had no alts plexing for them in the caldari/gallente front. That is, no minmatar plexing for them either.)

I think the Caldari would have been more persistent in the back waters if they did not find that their plexing work was undone by defensive plexing alts as soon as they leave. Gallente pvpers would not be willing or able to put up enough active resistance to cover the warzone.

But anyway how much do we disagree?

Do you think Gallente would have taken all the systems without any alts? What tier do you think Gallente would be sitting at if they had no alts plexing for them?

i told you nerds this was gonna happen

I thought this question was already asked and answered: BOTH plexing alts and Gallente militia were responsible for taking the warzone.

Specifically:
For the offensive plexing alts at higher tiers: It made it easier to take undefended systems and systems where Caldari did not have TZ coverage. Sped up the process, and probably demoralized our opponents into not trying to defend. One example is Dei-Telum in the Valerian constellation who decided to take a break from FW even though half the constellation was in their hands.

Defensive plexing alts: Honestly don't know about this one. There weren't really any offensive Caldari plexing alts out and about - still aren't. I would say they helped keep the fringe systems (Sarenemi and Hyera for example) in Gallente control - but in both of those cases we were ready to send some of our troops out there to secure them when needed.

As for "lucky to hold Tier 2" comment. We had 60 systems without the massive influx of plexing alts which only came when we decided to upgrade systems to Tier 3.

The Gallente militia was responsible for taking heavily defended systems and busting bunkers, and providing support to our plexing alts when there was stiffer resistance from Caldari in those backwater systems.

At the end of the campaign we had PLENTY of spare pilots to project power to any part of the map we desired. We could have had lots of guys with mains actively defensive plexing all corners of the map while 30+ guys sat in the main systems running plexes and BS'ing with each other on comms.

Are you saying you think gallente could have gained and held the entire warzone for at least one downtime without any plexing alts helping you?

So it would only be pvp mains that would d-plex and o-plex all the gains the other alts and mains made?

Certainly we saw a lower amount of offensive plexing after Kronos. But even now we see caldari getting 100,000 vp per weak. And that does not even include the amarr alts that would be plexing in that area at tier 2! Given that one of XGs alts had more vp than he did(and we don't know how many dplexing alts he has) its likely that most of a militias vp is coming from alts. So we can see that gallente probably would have been getting about half the vp. (if we include amarr plexers whatever that value is we would see they were getting considerably less than half.) Even to say half the vp is due to fw mains is overly generous since many of the plexing alts are players who don't even have their main in faction war.

If one side is getting half the vp over time they won't take all the systems. If you want to say well we already had a large percent of the systems, thanks to our alts before kronos ok. But that is still relying on the alts.

Bottom line is that (barring some huge null sec alliance coming in) in the long term no militia can hope to fight and win the occupancy war unless they resort to alts for rabbit plexing.

You didn't answer the question. The reason you didn't answer the question is because you are too wrapped up in silly arguments about your militia being better than the other militia.

The issue to what extent rabbits alts have on the occupancy war - not quibbling about which militia has more alts.




Again you keep wanting to point fingers at the other side instead of answering the question.

The question is: under the current mechanics if Gallente did not have plexing alts would they be able to take all the systems? Of course the other side would have plexing alts like they do now. Certain players have been trying to claim the gallente alts were not that important for the gallente victory etc.

I am putting that in perspective and saying what should not be controversial to anyone familiar with the occupancy war. That is if Gallente did not have plexing alts (or minmatar alts) in thier front they would be sitting at tier one and lucky to hit tier 2 on occasion.

Do you agree?

It did cross my mind to have a friendly and hostile rat in ALL plexes. They fight each other but can easily tank, all you have to do is pass the dps check by killing the rat hostile to you. Rat strength remains the same, rat dps is a non factor since they are always shooting each other with like 1 dps. This removes rats from solo pvp equation too.

Anyone see any problem with that? Is there much of a tank check factor in the current rats that would be missed in this kind of change?

My general rule is that rats are never the answer, cant deny they were a crude fix, but a fix non the less.

As for cearains posting of late, i am left with no doubt he is simply a concern troll. What a load of garbage posting. Hes here to just score points and has no interest in improving FW. Im going to try to ignore his posts again unless he posts something really dumn. That is not a challenge cearain. What i mean by that is not that im challenging you to post something dumb, just that it doesnt seem to be a challenge for you to do so.

The hilarious thing is that Cearain is the guy who championed NO rats in plexes. What a travesty it was for the entire FW community to not have adequate dps checks on rats.

I think everybody in FW would welcome dps checks on defensive plexes as well.