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Meta level invention, let's revisit
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Moonwonder
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#1 - 2014-09-16 11:14:50 UTC
This would be a good profession skill for invention. Maybe have a low success change but give new toons the ability to want to at least go into the industrial profession.

Make it similar to T2 research but make it require the meta item for what you want to invent. In reality, this shouldn't impact the overall game anymore than those people who rat up those same items, it would just make new people feel a little more accomplished when they invent something good.

We've got to be smart enough to be able to implement something like this.

And hell, it's a good sink for PI if you wanted to make an additional material component requirement. Keeping that in mind, it might actually stabilize the inflation a little since people can have more stable prices for those items.
Tij Lamor
Doomheim
#2 - 2014-09-16 11:30:09 UTC
The fact that CCP compete with player industry through loot drops that are better and often less expensive than the Tech 1 stuff players can manufacture is bothersome. I would like to see loot confined to components that players can include as optional items in their production to create higher meta products. Loot might also include blueprint copies or more salvage material but not products that compete with player industry.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-09-16 12:38:44 UTC
Tij Lamor wrote:
The fact that CCP compete with player industry through loot drops that are better and often less expensive than the Tech 1 stuff players can manufacture is bothersome. I would like to see loot confined to components that players can include as optional items in their production to create higher meta products. Loot might also include blueprint copies or more salvage material but not products that compete with player industry.



t1 gear has no "components". Its ores. The ores taken away from us by and large when the loot tables went to utter crap.


Salvage is a different mechanic, not trying to be **** but is what it is. And ccp adjusts that rate of of drop as well. those tables have imo gone to utter crap over the years.


Long story short...this ain't happening. CCP gimped these for a reason. Asking for them back? By all means...I miss my ships materials (after a week or 2 ship depending) in addition to bounty double dipping. Can I have drone poop loot back too?


Not seeing bpc's either....they seem to want these for more special things. And probably don't want the contract database bogged down with 500000 crap meta items bpcs not used often. and another crap named item for another 500000.

I could go but short version is among the several meta ecm mods only the top 1 of each 4 racials and multi are used as an example. If the others dropped as bpc's and not items....they would rot. As items I and most others sell em off (what buyers do no clue, I get paid and go on my merry way) or melt them. Gone just like that.

So a player gets something from them. Your bpc's for the unloved ecm mods....I would select all and delete to be honest. Now no one gets anything from them. You chose to be indy, thats on you. No reason why rest of game has to suffer for it my take. Make the good items all I can say. I unloaded some t2 bs's I built recently. Nice payday.....pick good items good things happen to the wallet the take away.

Tiericide may change this but I will rate the change when I see it tbh.
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-09-16 13:22:48 UTC
Moonwonder wrote:
This would be a good profession skill for invention. Maybe have a low success change but give new toons the ability to want to at least go into the industrial profession.



they are allready working on invention and meta-stuff, read oceanus preliminary notes.
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-09-16 13:23:36 UTC
Tij Lamor wrote:
The fact that CCP compete with player industry through loot drops that are better and often less expensive than the Tech 1 stuff players can manufacture is bothersome. I would like to see loot confined to components that players can include as optional items in their production to create higher meta products. Loot might also include blueprint copies or more salvage material but not products that compete with player industry.

module tiericide is coming.
beware!
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-09-16 14:00:33 UTC
I think you wanna to produce Meta 1-4 stuff, if this is so a directly no from me, looting NPC is most time very worthless the most things are so cheap it´s most times better to recycle them and take the minerals. Sure there are some which aren´t cheap but thats because no one can prod them and they are needed. If you could prod them the prices would fall and the looting of NPC will be getting more unattractive as its at the moment.

-1
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#7 - 2014-09-16 14:05:07 UTC
??? I just closed a meta invention/production thread one down... and it wasn't yours. Guess one of them is redunant ... nha, probably both.°°
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#8 - 2014-09-16 14:15:05 UTC
Meta items will receive a "tiericide" if CCP is sticking to what they revealed on Fanfest.

This means: no more meta4 >> meta1

Instead, meta1 will have a different "flavour".
Say the meta1 Power Diagnotics has the highest bonus on shields,
Meta2 has best capacitor recharge...

So ideally NO meta item will be useless and just replaced by the next better one.

I think making meta items manufacturable would be nice to have.
Imagine the rats dropping "meta1_component" to "meta4_component" and maybe "Damage_Control_Thingy".

Then you could use "Damage_Control_Thingy" to invent any Meta Damage Control BPC and depending on the value/power of the resulting meta item you would need one or more "metaX_component" to build.

That way you get more interaction for iindustry while loot/drops remain worth the same but become a bit more generic.

Currently I am worried a bit that we have SO COOL industry UI & features, but the highly enthusiastic producers would like to produce way more than is needed. ^^
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-09-16 15:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Edward Olmops wrote:
Meta items will receive a "tiericide" if CCP is sticking to what they revealed on Fanfest.

This means: no more meta4 >> meta1

Instead, meta1 will have a different "flavour".
Say the meta1 Power Diagnotics has the highest bonus on shields,
Meta2 has best capacitor recharge...

So ideally NO meta item will be useless and just replaced by the next better one.



edit: replace metacide for mods, doh....


Tiericide is not fleshed out as far as I know for starters.


And even if something like you think will happen happens....old habits die hard for some.


Rokh is still a tier 3 BS to me. Call it a new name for class, change its bpo's needs, its still tier 3 to me. It does things scorp and raven do not do...and I am not just talking fitting hybrids lol. You see those flavors you mention.....taste like the stuff ccp was pushing years ago before "tiericide".

All tiericide did was give new names. People still run the same ships for the same reasons. And if a ship a dud in the lineup, they are still ignored. Tiericide of BC's for example. Lolrox still sucks. Making it feel better by being "equal" to drake with no tier number did nothing actually for it. Made it feel good I guess....its still crap.



This will still apply to many meta items I am thinking. I want gravimetric jams I will still look for BZ-5. As will many others. As I am pretty sure "flavors" will follow current trends in the items now. Just like it did with the ships. Now I could be wrong...time will tell.
Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-09-16 18:34:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kell Braugh
Meta items (and their specialness compared to the basic T1 and T2) is what give value to looting npc wrecks. It will affect the game as the only way of getting meta *is* killing rats atm, which I think is good. It allows players to generate the mods without the markets ability to control the supply (such as over producing 'the best' meta item)

Also, CCP can adjust drop rates for game balance, not marketeer profitability.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#11 - 2014-09-17 03:34:29 UTC
At fan fest ccp said they wanted to male it so all modules are built by players after the do the meta balancing

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-09-17 06:59:32 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
At fan fest ccp said they wanted to male it so all modules are built by players after the do the meta balancing



the soon(tm) stamp applies to what they say at fan fest more than what they post here lol.....


that and ccp would have a hard time implementing this.

If they lose the meta loot tey got 2 choices.

Boost the bounty on rats as meta is a part of the payout. Blitz will be on...current looting slows down isk per tick if only a little.

Or drop as mentioned bpc's. I see that killing the contract system just a little. 5000 mission runners and ratters dropping contracts daily if not hourly. Or they could open market to bpc sales. Which I would love. Not sure db peeps or even players would. How many combos of bpc's would that be with doing all bp combos. because oh yes...these meta bpc's hit market I want my other bpc's to do so too lol.
Anthar Thebess
#13 - 2014-09-17 07:57:35 UTC
Well i think the real issue is that player produced goods are the worst one.
I think that it could be good that player produced goods could be just before meta 4 modules when it comes with the basic role.
So

Meta 1-3 ( worst in the primary role, but can be fitted more easily )
Player made stuff ( better in primary role than meta 1-3 , but moderate fitting requirements)
Meta 4 module ( best in primary role , bigger fitting requirements)

For example.
Lets make it simple some gun:
Meta 4 100% dps / 100 % fitting requirements
Player made : 96% DPS / 94% fitting requirements
Meta 3: 95% dps / 93% fitting requirements
Meta 2 : 92 dps / 92% fitting requirements
Meta 1: 90% dps / 91 % fitting requirements

Yes some meta 1 modules will be still more valuable than meta 4 , because you will be able to fit them on a class smaller ship, or you will be able to close your fit nicely.

Still this change will make most of the player made modules usable all around the eve ... because they will be always available in big amounts , while at the same time not being completely .... CENSORED

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Lugh Crow-Slave
#14 - 2014-09-17 22:31:35 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
At fan fest ccp said they wanted to male it so all modules are built by players after the do the meta balancing



the soon(tm) stamp applies to what they say at fan fest more than what they post here lol.....


that and ccp would have a hard time implementing this.

If they lose the meta loot tey got 2 choices.

Boost the bounty on rats as meta is a part of the payout. Blitz will be on...current looting slows down isk per tick if only a little.

Or drop as mentioned bpc's. I see that killing the contract system just a little. 5000 mission runners and ratters dropping contracts daily if not hourly. Or they could open market to bpc sales. Which I would love. Not sure db peeps or even players would. How many combos of bpc's would that be with doing all bp combos. because oh yes...these meta bpc's hit market I want my other bpc's to do so too lol.


Or as mentioned above make our so rats drop components needed to build the meta mods

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble