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Dodging Wardecs

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Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#821 - 2014-09-16 13:48:11 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Besides, that is really what this comes down to.

The ONLY justification that the carebear side has put up for continuing to allow wardecs to remain toothless is all the theoretical people who would apparently quit the game if PvP were ever allowed in their vicinity.

Well, that and "you can't make me", which is basically the same cop out answer that verifies that such a person belongs in an NPC corp anyway.



For CCP to have changed it they would have needed a pretty good reason to do so.

I take it you are aware that people do give reasons why they leave. Those theoretical people you keep talking about might not be as theoretical as you would like to believe.

I've known people leave because of constant war-decs and the fact they didn't want to be in an npc corp.
Carl Pator
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#822 - 2014-09-16 13:50:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Carl Pator wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Besides, that is really what this comes down to.

The ONLY justification that the carebear side has put up for continuing to allow wardecs to remain toothless is all the theoretical people who would apparently quit the game if PvP were ever allowed in their vicinity.

Well, that and "you can't make me", which is basically the same cop out answer that verifies that such a person belongs in an NPC corp anyway.



That and their own selfish reasons, which blinds them to all reason and sense. They have to know it is wrong. No one, and I mean no one could be that low of an I.Q.

Me Me Me and all Me. screw balance. Screw, good for the game. Me Me Me


Wow, where is a mirror when you need one.

What are you looking to gain out of a war dec? A "gf o7" or a way to shoot carebears without being concorded? I would wager it's the latter. The war dec corps are their own worst enemies, if decs were done in a meaningful way instead of a concord dodge then you wouldn't have people dropping corp to avoid them in the first place.

Buck up buttercup you're not a special snowflake, if you want to play in highsec you have to play with the concord like the rest of us


Ah, the "e-bushido" argument. If you want fair fights, you're playing the wrong game.

And also, I would ask you what you think wars should be instead of a "concord dodge"? That's literally all they could ever be, a way to fight in highsec without the Infallible Magic Space Police interfering. I fail to see how that's a bad thing.


Who said anything about a fair fight or e-busido? I will repeat what I said in clearer terms, if you want to hunt in high sec learn to deal with the concord. If you want to fight in high sec pick a corp that also wants to fight or a corp with something worth defending. The only pro to high sec is the protection it offers stop trying to rob players of that for your own selfish reasons.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#823 - 2014-09-16 13:57:09 UTC
Carl Pator wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Carl Pator wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Besides, that is really what this comes down to.

The ONLY justification that the carebear side has put up for continuing to allow wardecs to remain toothless is all the theoretical people who would apparently quit the game if PvP were ever allowed in their vicinity.

Well, that and "you can't make me", which is basically the same cop out answer that verifies that such a person belongs in an NPC corp anyway.



That and their own selfish reasons, which blinds them to all reason and sense. They have to know it is wrong. No one, and I mean no one could be that low of an I.Q.

Me Me Me and all Me. screw balance. Screw, good for the game. Me Me Me


Wow, where is a mirror when you need one.

What are you looking to gain out of a war dec? A "gf o7" or a way to shoot carebears without being concorded? I would wager it's the latter. The war dec corps are their own worst enemies, if decs were done in a meaningful way instead of a concord dodge then you wouldn't have people dropping corp to avoid them in the first place.

Buck up buttercup you're not a special snowflake, if you want to play in highsec you have to play with the concord like the rest of us


Ah, the "e-bushido" argument. If you want fair fights, you're playing the wrong game.

And also, I would ask you what you think wars should be instead of a "concord dodge"? That's literally all they could ever be, a way to fight in highsec without the Infallible Magic Space Police interfering. I fail to see how that's a bad thing.


Who said anything about a fair fight or e-busido? I will repeat what I said in clearer terms, if you want to hunt in high sec learn to deal with the concord. If you want to fight in high sec pick a corp that also wants to fight or a corp with something worth defending. The only pro to high sec is the protection it offers stop trying to rob players of that for your own selfish reasons.



That's amusing really, they use selfish as part of their argument, but out of the two parties they're the ones being more selfish, not the war-dec dodgers.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#824 - 2014-09-16 14:28:36 UTC
Absolutely Not Analt wrote:


Well hello there Mr Pot! Long time no see. Have you met my good friend Kettle yet?



I am a self confessed coward, and dodger. I use every mechanic not an exploit, to save my sorry skin. I dislike ganking, I dislike WD's on small corps (me being one). If I was Me Me Me, why would I on earth want to get rid of my "get out of jail free" card. I'll tell you why. For the sake of balance. Pure and simple.

I want to defend my space against those evil Roid stealers in corps larger than me, but small enough to drop and reform on demand. This mechanic "FORCES" (yes I'll even use opposition arguments) me to move out of my home because I cannot defend it. Yes I can gank, but that then "FORCES" me to go against my playstyle.

My only option of "Defending" my space is removed from me. I am not whining about it, because as it stands, I'd do the same. It still does not mean it is balanced.
Trixie Lawless
State War Academy
Caldari State
#825 - 2014-09-16 14:36:37 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:

Actually you are wrong.

A corp. is no different to a guild, being in an npc corp. is nothing like being in a corp./guild.


No, you perfectly well described a corp that is nothing more than a chat channel with a group hangar. Why you think those deserve to exist at the expense of crowding out PvP in highsec is beyond me.


Or...the wardeccers who complain about this and feel they should only PvP on their terms (aka hi sec carebearing with guns) could grow a pair and move somewhere where PvP is most definitely not always on their terms, like the two other vast areas if the game that were specifically designed for it.

You call them selfish yet you promote PvP against carebears on your terms, yet have the option to not wardec and move freely about practically 100% safe.

Sounds hypocritical and pretty carebear to me.
Seneca Auran
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#826 - 2014-09-16 14:43:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:

You say that, but what about a group of friends that are PvE orientated, if you were in charge their only option would be to leave the game and play another MMO.


Nothing of the sort. And you know that, so it puzzles me why your side keeps repeating that lie.

Since they won't fight or interact with anyone else in the game anyway, their corp is no better than a chat channel to begin with.


Uh...make up your mind please. Either they are in fact 'interacting' with other players with similar interests who enjoy playing the game the way they do and using a corp for the convenience, or they're "not interacting with anyone else in the game", it can't be both.

It always seems to circle back to , "The only correct way of interacting with other people and playing the game is my way of interacting with other people and playing the game, and anyone who disagrees should be punished by CCP."

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Besides, that is really what this comes down to.

The ONLY justification that the carebear side has put up for continuing to allow wardecs to remain toothless is all the theoretical people who would apparently quit the game if PvP were ever allowed in their vicinity.

Well, that and "you can't make me", which is basically the same cop out answer that verifies that such a person belongs in an NPC corp anyway.


No, the justification is that corp dropping is currently the only input defenders have in the war dec system. The aggressor has absolute control over every other facet at all times.

malcovas Henderson wrote:

Basically then, you are saying that you want to be in a Corp for the benefits it offers. Remove that benefit and you'd be gone. The Only reason you are defending this mechanic is it keeps your benefits going. Sod trying to defend those benefits while I have absolute immunity from defending those benefits while still getting them.

Selfish


...as opposed to all the people who join PC corps because..uh..they want to suffer and be miserable and make it worse than NPC corps for the sake of HTFU? I'm not quite sure what your argument is here. Everybody joins a corp for the benefits, whether social or mechanical or some combination of both.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Ah, the "e-bushido" argument. If you want fair fights, you're playing the wrong game.

And also, I would ask you what you think wars should be instead of a "concord dodge"? That's literally all they could ever be, a way to fight in highsec without the Infallible Magic Space Police interfering. I fail to see how that's a bad thing.


That is the exact argument being made by the war deccers. "What!? No chivalrous gentleman would just turn his back and run when the gauntlet has been thrown challenging his honor! CCP must do something about these absolute cads."
Absolutely Not Analt
Carebears on Fire
#827 - 2014-09-16 15:09:00 UTC
Seneca Auran wrote:
... cads."


I love that word.

Eve is a multi player game. And you are the content. - Ralph King-Griffin Being meh at two things is not better than being great at one. - Lugh Crow-Slave
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#828 - 2014-09-16 16:04:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ah, the "e-bushido" argument. If you want fair fights, you're playing the wrong game.

This coming from someone who makes a habit of calling those that avoid PVP "cowards".

Before making these "e-bushido" comments, you may also want to clear your signature so that the hypocrisy doesn't shine so bright.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#829 - 2014-09-16 16:39:06 UTC
please describe kaarous' inconsistency clearly and fully, including your interpretation of kaarous' comment and the posts preceding it. also please provide your understanding on the definition of 'hypocrisy' in your own words

Quote:
What are you looking to gain out of a war dec? A "gf o7" or a way to shoot carebears without being concorded? I would wager it's the latter. The war dec corps are their own worst enemies, if decs were done in a meaningful way instead of a concord dodge then you wouldn't have people dropping corp to avoid them in the first place.


i remember carebears saying things like 'those stupid lowseccers don't realise that instead of camping gates, they should let the pveers into lowsec so that the pve'ers gain confidence and start coming into lowsec in large numbers, then the pvpers could have the big kills' in similar threads

basically what the carebears are saying is 'we want our betters to farm us like animals until we're fat enough to slaughter'
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#830 - 2014-09-16 16:47:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ah, the "e-bushido" argument. If you want fair fights, you're playing the wrong game.

This coming from someone who makes a habit of calling those that avoid PVP "cowards".

Before making these "e-bushido" comments, you may also want to clear your signature so that the hypocrisy doesn't shine so bright.


Coward

Quote:

coward
[kou-erd]

noun
1.
a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.

adjective
2.
lacking courage; very fearful or timid.


Seems Kaarous is spot on to me. This is a video game, you can't really die here, none of this really matters.

Notice that I avoid pvp (actually I don't , I avoid "nonscheduled ship demolition and disposal", everything in EVE is pvp in one way or another) and yet Kaarous doesn't call me a coward. It's because I do so not because I'll cry if someone blows me up but because the ways i (and others) do so aren't chickenshit video game cowardice.
Bloody Slave
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#831 - 2014-09-16 16:54:40 UTC
Chu Ke wrote:
i dont understand why the op wants to wardec individual one man corps

go pick on somebody your own size


Maybe because my 1man trade Corp is annoying as hell?

Maybe because my 1man bounty Corp is annoying as hell?

Maybe because my 1man logi Corp is annoying as hell?

Maybe because my 1man forum warrior Corp is annoying as hell?

The list goes on...

Same applies to this ANNOYING NPC Alt of mine that I use on the forum and other activities in game, you can guess, I'm immune to Wardecs, I was thinking on creating a 1man Corp with a cool name and making ppl waste 50M isk every time I, well, annoy them.

Wardecs need a complete re-work.

Indeed, using a game mechanic instead of your brain to avoid losses on this game is a shame, I do it often and I'm not proud of myself but I can understand why ppl want a theme-park on a virtual reality to avoid the stress they already have IRL. The question is: Will EVE become better if we make it that desired theme-park? I have many, many doubts.

The first time I quit was because I was having more stress than fun - I was one of the people out there, in other games forums, stating that EVE was not a game, but a CAREER. The other several times I quit was because I was bored without that stress, and now I have 1man Corps and don't play on null anymore, I avoid player interactions as much I can because reasons... but you can be sure of one thing: I don't have the fun I had that time I was having "stress"...

@Jenn, you are not a PVEr on my book as I think PvP does not resume to shot other players, congrats on your well-mannered and honest replies to other players.

If your balls are hurt and bleeding don't sit in a pool full of piranhas (note to myself: don't complain in GD)
Trixie Lawless
State War Academy
Caldari State
#832 - 2014-09-16 18:06:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ah, the "e-bushido" argument. If you want fair fights, you're playing the wrong game.

This coming from someone who makes a habit of calling those that avoid PVP "cowards".

Before making these "e-bushido" comments, you may also want to clear your signature so that the hypocrisy doesn't shine so bright.


Coward

Quote:

coward
[kou-erd]

noun
1.
a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.

adjective
2.
lacking courage; very fearful or timid.


Seems Kaarous is spot on to me. This is a video game, you can't really die here, none of this really matters.

Notice that I avoid pvp (actually I don't , I avoid "nonscheduled ship demolition and disposal", everything in EVE is pvp in one way or another) and yet Kaarous doesn't call me a coward. It's because I do so not because I'll cry if someone blows me up but because the ways i (and others) do so aren't chickenshit video game cowardice.



Get over yourself. Disbands aren't done out of fear or intimidation, they are done with people laughing on comms at the aggressors who were stupid enough to wardec a three person corp with no assets and expect something out of it. When you are done jumping up and down for attention, praising yourself, and doing your best to make yourself look like a badass (cough...pve'er who hides...cough) go look up how easy it is to dec a shell corp, or even 50 shell corps at a time. Doesn't really take big skill and cajones to do it.

What are they going to do, mine you to death?

If the aggressor can't read or won't spend three to five minutes reading for a weeklong war, then why should the defender give a damn about it? Why is it worth the defenders time to fight someone who probably doesn't even remember who they are war with.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#833 - 2014-09-16 18:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Jenn aSide wrote:
It's because I do so not because I'll cry if someone blows me up but because the ways i (and others) do so aren't chickenshit video game cowardice.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Ah, the "e-bushido" argument.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#834 - 2014-09-16 20:59:42 UTC
Bloody Slave wrote:
Indeed, using a game mechanic instead of your brain to avoid losses on this game is a shame
I never understood how using the easiest and most effective means of doing something wasn't using your brain. Though maybe it's just me, as I can't think of many good reasons to fight as a defender in a wardec.
Bloody Slave
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#835 - 2014-09-16 21:59:32 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Bloody Slave wrote:
Indeed, using a game mechanic instead of your brain to avoid losses on this game is a shame
I never understood how using the easiest and most effective means of doing something wasn't using your brain. Though maybe it's just me, as I can't think of many good reasons to fight as a defender in a wardec.


Are you saying that it requires some thinking to recycle your disposable 1man Corp? Just curious, seriously.

Yeah, I know, the easiest and most effective, min/max building etc etc. BTW, I said I do that but I miss the times when I was having fun, errr, I mean, stress.

If your balls are hurt and bleeding don't sit in a pool full of piranhas (note to myself: don't complain in GD)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#836 - 2014-09-16 22:03:16 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Seems Kaarous is spot on to me. This is a video game, you can't really die here, none of this really matters.

Notice that I avoid pvp (actually I don't , I avoid "nonscheduled ship demolition and disposal", everything in EVE is pvp in one way or another) and yet Kaarous doesn't call me a coward. It's because I do so not because I'll cry if someone blows me up but because the ways i (and others) do so aren't chickenshit video game cowardice.


Yep. You are one of my best examples of the difference between a PvE player and a carebear.

And to the rest of the anklebiters, yes, there is a difference, and a fairly significant one at that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#837 - 2014-09-16 22:10:07 UTC
Trixie Lawless wrote:

If the aggressor can't read or won't spend three to five minutes reading for a weeklong war, then why should the defender give a damn about it? Why is it worth the defenders time to fight someone who probably doesn't even remember who they are war with.


And, here we go again.

Why are you even in a player corp then? Why do you think you deserve to be in one, if all you use it for is a glorified chat channel and a tax dodge?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#838 - 2014-09-16 22:33:16 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Trixie Lawless wrote:

If the aggressor can't read or won't spend three to five minutes reading for a weeklong war, then why should the defender give a damn about it? Why is it worth the defenders time to fight someone who probably doesn't even remember who they are war with.


And, here we go again.

Why are you even in a player corp then? Why do you think you deserve to be in one, if all you use it for is a glorified chat channel and a tax dodge?



Never ending circle of discussion, which at the end of the day is irrelevant because dodging war-decs is a legitimate tactic.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#839 - 2014-09-16 22:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Bloody Slave wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Bloody Slave wrote:
Indeed, using a game mechanic instead of your brain to avoid losses on this game is a shame
I never understood how using the easiest and most effective means of doing something wasn't using your brain. Though maybe it's just me, as I can't think of many good reasons to fight as a defender in a wardec.


Are you saying that it requires some thinking to recycle your disposable 1man Corp? Just curious, seriously.

Yeah, I know, the easiest and most effective, min/max building etc etc. BTW, I said I do that but I miss the times when I was having fun, errr, I mean, stress.

Thinking solution and smartest solution are sometimes synonymous and sometimes not. Carefully calculating the response to a wardec and choosing the easy way out without thinking can and in this case I feel do lead to the same conclusion.

For most players this is the situation with wardecs.
Trixie Lawless
State War Academy
Caldari State
#840 - 2014-09-16 22:49:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Trixie Lawless
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Trixie Lawless wrote:

If the aggressor can't read or won't spend three to five minutes reading for a weeklong war, then why should the defender give a damn about it? Why is it worth the defenders time to fight someone who probably doesn't even remember who they are war with.


And, here we go again.

Why are you even in a player corp then? Why do you think you deserve to be in one, if all you use it for is a glorified chat channel and a tax dodge?


Why do you feel your opinion's and failed understanding of CCP's intent (because really, there's no point in this discussion. CCP has blatantly made it clear what their stance is) should dictate or have ANY influence over another's gameplay? You say she is a PvE player and not a carebear? I say then ones who complain about dodging are carebears and the war deccers that don't complain are the actual pvp'ers.

You see how that works?

I can't believe you think mass deccing in hi sec isn't care bearing but dodging is?! Yup, that hi sec wardec corp definitely ISN'T carebear because they choose when to go to war and when to give them themselves the option of traveling safely among EMPIRE space. Woooooo def not carebearing.

And to the hi sec wardec corps that understand the risk of small corps dodging and do it anyway but don't complain....hats off to you. Creating content isn't bad at all. Those who complain about it, understand you live in carebear land okay...its HI SEC. Just because you are a group of combat pilots doesn't mean you own empire space. Other playersncan ignore you if they want. Once again, its HI SEC.

How hard is it to understand?