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What would you do?

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Marsha Mallow
#41 - 2014-09-16 00:16:41 UTC
Oddsodz wrote:
lol, Um I have been playing fully since 2011 or there abouts, I started the account in 2008. But did not really start to play untill 2011. As for why EveBoard does not show any info, because I change my API, The only time I let eveboard have a look at my skills is for when I am apping to a corp. I don't wish to give free intel out when I don't have too.

Fair enough. This is an intriguing idea from a 6 month old newbie, well done.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-09-16 00:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Oddsodz wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Oddsodz wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Sensor Dampeners. Make the ****** get closer to scram range.



Tried that before. And as I have said already. Most Garmur fits can lock out to 90km due the sensor boosters they fit. Plus the fact of a LINk on the tengu gives it even more range.


So use a corax.

Cheap missile destroyer also locks and hits to 90. You wont catch the garmur, but you do more dps and have more tank.



Um did you miss the part where NONE of my missiles would hit due the the fact that he was going to fast? Corax would not hit just like my Heretic would not hit.

And I have LEVEL 4 Missiles certificate (would almost have level 5 if not for the rocket skills). So it's not really down to my skills in missiles, But on that I could be wrong.


corax missile rigs for missile velocity to extend range mean missiles travel at 11.444 - you can improve that by adding implant and another rig
if hes going 11.9, max theoretical hot speed, meaning he has 3 overdrives, which noone does, he will burn out his mwde in a few cycles.

not an issue.
Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2014-09-16 00:20:50 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Oddsodz wrote:


Keres is dead in 2 volley from a Garmur. And can Lock to 90KM, Goes 12000KMS. Keres with 2 damps has no tank if it fits 2 damps. It also has only drones for DPS as there is no bonus for any wepons, How long do you think it will hold scram for?


You dont kill a garmur by yourself. Thats the point of a fast kitey ship - to kite.

Point of the keres is to make the garmur come closer so someone else can get him.

Look, if you are complaining about links no matter what, then save yourself the trouble and quit the game. People have been complaining about links for 10 years.

Links are no different then getting pre-buffed at base by mages in WoW or whatever. Those that are buffed also out-perform. Of course 1 v 1 you are at a disadvantage, thats the whole point. You are effectively fighting 2 characters.

Get your own links, or get friends with links. Simple as that.



And that is my point. It need to be fixed, I Don't mind fighting 2 on 1., I mind when there is not one dam thing I can do to fight it at all. Let me put it to you like this, Would you come and fight this guy on your own? No, So you say you will bring friends. How long do you think they will stick around to kill this one player? Hour? 2 Hours? How much fun do you think you and your friends will have if you come and try? The player is not dumb. He will not put himself at risk if you have friends in system. And there is not one t1 ship in the game that can match the garmur in a 1v1 inside a small or novice plex in faction warfare space if the Garmur has links. All t1 and t2 ships will die to a Garmur with links before your friends jump into system and warp to the plex, take the gate, Land in site. Burn with MWD on to catch to where you are. And land 2nd scam and do DPS. You in your Keres is dead long LONG before any of that happens.
Pro TIps
Doomheim
#44 - 2014-09-16 00:47:51 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
They nerfed the unscannable boosters, now its perfectly valid and easy to probe. For the record, I DO have a perfect prober with high-grade scanning set

I *don't* have perfect scanning skills, and I have no trouble getting a warp-in on anything.


To the O/P, you need friends; but don't tell your friends they are killing the frig. Tell them they are killing the Tengu booster. Who doesn't want to kill a t3 especially one fitted for boosting?

Also I'd get yourself a covops ship that can fit a combat probe launcher (I have to use ****** fits for this, maybe you have more fitting/covops skills and won't) and just AFK with the probes launched for an hour, and repeat that over and over. Eventually the Tengu get tired of spamming Dscan to see if you are about to green him or not, and he will either leave, or you will green him when he isn't paying attention, then move your probes back out, and get a friend to catch him off-guard.


Also note that warfare links go offline if you can make the Tengu enter warp. If he thinks he is about to be green'd and jumped he will probably warp to a different safe-spot. That means the frigate doesn't have links while the Tengu is moving, maybe this gives you an opportunity to get your MWD back on or leave grid.


The expectation that you should be able to "own" all the small complexes in the system by yourself is wrong. It could be two frigs instead of one frig and a off-grid booster. Either way, you are out-numbered, and you better use your social skills and even up the odds!
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-09-16 01:38:12 UTC
In addition to probing down the booster, the Garmur sacrifices a lot when it's fit for speed and range like that. I believe it's capable of no more than about 150dps in that configuration, and it's quite squishy.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-09-16 03:25:29 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
In addition to probing down the booster, the Garmur sacrifices a lot when it's fit for speed and range like that. I believe it's capable of no more than about 150dps in that configuration, and it's quite squishy.

Oh yes, It is has no tank at all, but it don't need it with the speed and range.

As for the chap that says I should just AFK with probes out. And what fun is that for me? I get to sit there and look at stars for hours. Um and where is the fun?

Also, What's the point of me fitting a probe launcher to a combat ship? I am not going to be able to probe and fight at the same time. For them that really do know what they are talking about know that a Gamur only needs the links up really for the 1st part of the fight, The part where it really needs to get out of scram range at the start of the fight, As long it gets that part done, Then it is plan sailing from there on. Sure I could get more friends, I do have them. But none of them will take the time to go probe down the Tengu as they know as well as I do that it well just cloak/ warp before they get 1000% green scan hit. It's just not fun chasing stuff you can not catch no matter what. Also killing/forcing cloak/warping of the tengu booster will not help me win the fight. As I have said already. Garmur only really needs links at the start. There is no way I can live long enough to fight the Garmur to kill it if the link are killed by somebody else or forced to cloak/warp off. REMEMBER, I Am limited to small ships like frigs and Destroyers.

Not all of us have 20 accounts and 60 screens to play EVE on. And I sure as hell am not going to log in to EVE just to look at blank space all the time I am on. SO AFK CLOAKING with probes out is not going to happen. And it sure as hell won't work anyway. Because probes have a life time. And when that timer is up they come back to your cargo. So unless I go and BOT (cheat and maybe get banned) my probes out. There is no way I can do that.

So the best you all can come up with is "LEAVE SYSTEM". Then I have truly lost to a sad game mechanic that is efficiently a "PAY TO WIN SYSTEM" where by that player is paying (be it PLEX or with real life money) for a 2nd account that gives him SUPER SPEED (also can be SUPER TANK).

Getting my own links will not help me kill him. He ship is to fast at the start of the fight. Even when I am at zero of the landing spot. Getting more friends will not help me kill him. He can always disengage at "HIS" choosing. Hell depending of fleet type. He will most likely kill more than just me,. Remember this all happens in a novice or small faction warfare plex in low sec,. Where bigger ships can not go. Some have said get a Dramiel. But what's the point when I can not get in range to web scram? I just die to him kiteing at range.

Links need removing from Cloaky t3s, Then I may have a chance. Unless you can come with better ideas?
Pro TIps
Doomheim
#47 - 2014-09-16 04:33:04 UTC
Oddsodz wrote:
As for the chap that says I should just AFK with probes out. And what fun is that for me? I get to sit there and look at stars for hours. Um and where is the fun?

What fun is it to sit in the station while you wait for the frig+tengu pair to leave "your" system? That's what you are doing right now.

Stop pretending your thread is about anything except bitching about links. Yes, off-grid links suck. Unfortunately they are still a thing, so either get a friend, or stare at that station services dialog, buddy. I offered you an alternative that allows you to play a little cat-and-mouse with the Tengu and possibly wear him out on avoiding you, and you cried about it.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-09-16 04:35:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Oddsodz wrote:


Links need removing from Cloaky t3s, Then I may have a chance. Unless you can come with better ideas?


They're already going in the direction of removal of off-grid boosters. Removing links from cloaky t3s? No, links don't work when they're cloaked. Which is why probing them down will make their life difficult. So what you do is when you see one, you go get a probe ship, and start probing, and sooner or later, they'll get paranoid and buzz off. What's less fun? Repeatedly dying or spending a few minutes probing to avoid dying?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#49 - 2014-09-16 04:38:57 UTC
Even without the booster, you likely would have still lost this engagement. If he was doing 4,000 m/s at 30km, I don't think the result would be any different, and I believe a non-boosted Garmur can top that anyways.

Hey guys.
Vyl Vit
#50 - 2014-09-16 08:28:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
Um. I'm for the "bring friends" idea. One thing working for you is, you know his tactics. You can rely on them being repeated. The OTHER thing you have on him is, he doesn't know yours...yet. There are actually several things you can do. Having stealth and surprise on your side can put you light years ahead of the guy, if you take advantage of your advantage.

Don't get your nose bent out of shape and lock your mind on YOU getting him back YOURSELF. You're defending your home. You've happened on a wicked combo under certain circumstances - or an impotent one, under others.
Give it some thought, then come back at him with "others."

AND...think ahead. What if he's as stubborn as you appear to be? He'll be wanting to do his own counter-measure, no?

PS HOWEVER (<---- big "however") from your own words, you don't seem as interested in solving the problem as you are in insisting the problem can't be solved. SO. If you can't "fly" what it takes to do the job, looks like someone got your number, and you're somewhere doing something you're not qualified to do. (Eyes bigger than the stomach.) AND, you said it yourself.

Go back to high sec. Learn to fly.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Rockstede
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-09-16 10:21:37 UTC
Why are you so damn insistant on fighting this guy "on your own"?

Your have multiple experienced FW players here telling you that it is perfectly fair that you get your ass handed to you by a pirate ship and a booster because you are fighting 2 people both better equipped than you.


You need help (ingame), and as someone else quoted in this thread somewhere, if your friends won't undock then you don't have friends.


You seem more determined to force the people in this thread to aquiesse to your opinion (which is based on unreasonable assumptions) than to actually accept that what they are telling you is correct.

Had you been even remotely willing to adapt your opinions based on the experience of the others in this thread maybe they would have offered to help you, as it stands I doubt anyone will.


(btw, I tried to scan down a max booster in our corp after ruling out all other sigs, it took me about 30 seconds in a helios)
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#52 - 2014-09-16 10:27:27 UTC
Move or fight.


But yeah, agreed off grid support really makes part of this game suck big time.


It's about time they changed it.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#53 - 2014-09-16 10:39:20 UTC
Oddsodz wrote:
So let me tell you a story.

I am in Faction warfare in lowsec. And today I log in to see that there 1 neutral and 1 war target plexing in my system. The war target is in a bomber,. So I get a ship and go after him. I land inside the plex that he is in and he runs away. But as soon he is warping away. But as soon as he warps away a new player has jumped in to system I check d-SCAN and I see a a Garmur and now there is tengu on d-scan. So I know whats coming a dock back up. I think to myself,. What can I do to combat this new threat.


I haven't fought one of these yet because I can't catch one. The last one I tried for reached a speed over over 11km/s as he was burning away. They're ships for people who are afraid to lose ships.... and that's the weakness. Not in the ship, but in the psychology of the pilot.

I think your basic approach is probably good, but you're using the wrong ship. Even with a scram on him I doubt you will be able to keep up in a destroyer. So don't try. My advice would be to use a sniping ship. I would think a ship like a curse (or something that can neut to long range) and sentry drones will be enough to chase him out of your anomoly.

I doubt very much that a garmur could kill a curse and the psychology of a garmur pilot is geared to GTFO on the first sign of trouble. If you lay even one good shot on him with drones, if he doesn't pop, he'll run.

You'll need to be aware of where your drones are in realation to his ship. If he tackles you, move to range and draw him out where the sentries can hit him. If he goes after the drones you move in and try to shoot him with the curse. Set the ship up for sniping at range. Don't try to brawl with him. It's hopeles.

That said, your real problem here isn't this pilot. It's the fact that you're trying to defend your system alone.

Good luck
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#54 - 2014-09-16 10:41:18 UTC
Bring 2 garmurs and a boosting tengu.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Decian Cor
Stronghelm Corporation
Solyaris Chtonium
#55 - 2014-09-16 10:43:54 UTC
My question is this:

If OP was at 0 on landing spot, why was it necessary to 'approach the target with MWD on'? That comment leads me to think he was NOT at 0. From my personal experience, if you don't move AT ALL after taking a FW gate, things normally land within 2k or so of your ship. I may be wrong, but that seems the trend to me.

If that was then the case (OP was in correct position), had proper targeting skills with SEBO+scan res script AND a sig amp as well....how the hell did he not lock it it fast enough to land a scram?

I think this post is missing information or not as transparent as it needs to be in order to correctly analyze the problem and formulate a solution. May just be a rant. But that's just my opinion.

Also -

Your house is awarded 0 points. May the odds be ever in your favor.

[u]Unfiltered for the masses.[/u]

http://imgur.com/mzSl1Ie
Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2014-09-16 10:56:13 UTC
Rockstede wrote:
Why are you so damn insistant on fighting this guy "on your own"?

Your have multiple experienced FW players here telling you that it is perfectly fair that you get your ass handed to you by a pirate ship and a booster because you are fighting 2 people both better equipped than you.


You need help (ingame), and as someone else quoted in this thread somewhere, if your friends won't undock then you don't have friends.


You seem more determined to force the people in this thread to aquiesse to your opinion (which is based on unreasonable assumptions) than to actually accept that what they are telling you is correct.

Had you been even remotely willing to adapt your opinions based on the experience of the others in this thread maybe they would have offered to help you, as it stands I doubt anyone will.


(btw, I tried to scan down a max booster in our corp after ruling out all other sigs, it took me about 30 seconds in a helios)


in your tests, Did you have ECCM fitted to your booster? Also did you have ECCM implants in your Booster pilots head? Come back to me when you have done that.

Quote:
you don't seem as interested in solving the problem as you are in insisting the problem can't be solved. SO. If you can't "fly" what it takes to do the job, looks like someone got your number, and you're somewhere doing something you're not qualified to do. (Eyes bigger than the stomach.) AND, you said it yourself.

Go back to high sec. Learn to fly.


I would love a solution to the solution to the problem. That is what I am asking here, But nobody has yet come up with one. Everybody here so far has said that I should get friends to come and help, Well I have tried that. They get board chasing a frig that can not be caught. Nobody wants to play that game. They know better than to chase it as they will lose ships in the end and with nothing to show for it. Some have said probe his tengu down., That don't help. You can't find it before you put your self out there for the fight as he is cloaked, And when he does de-cloak, The Garmur has landed and in engage with you. I can't warp then.

I Challenge any pilot to come and beat a linked Garmur that is flown by a competence player in a Small or Novice plex in Faction Warfare space. I Don't think anybody can. And that is why I am so frustrated. I can not fight this issues at all. I Don't mind losing fights, That's what PvP is., I Do mind never having the chance to win because of an off grid booster. A Booster that can not be found, This one thing is going to have me locked out of my home station in the next few days. That means I will have to leave faction warfare to get my stuff. I Would not mnid so much if it was a bunch of real players. But it one player with 2 accounts. I am beaning beaten by a "Pay to WIN" system.

How is that right?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-09-16 11:22:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
That was way too many words to quote, Odd, so I'm just gonna respond to the most pertinent.

You've been given a tonne of very good advice. You are dismissing it all without even trying. Your excuse is, "WAAAAH, EFFORT!!!"

You aren't really worth any of it. All you're doing is wasting our time. You just spat in everyone's faces, people who are giving you demonstrably effective tactics. Bottom line is, you got beat.

Pay to win? You insult your own intelligence with that perfidy. You know the game you're playing is a multiplayer one, and I can see you in blobs on your kb. Doesn't matter if it's two guys with an account each, or one guy with two, you got beat in a 2v1. The way I see it, there is nothing unusual about that.

This is EVE. Doesn't matter what you think is right or honourable, what matters is what you can do about it.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Pleistarchus Shikkoken
Doomheim
#58 - 2014-09-16 12:03:02 UTC
Damp the **** out of the garmour in wich he can't lock except at extreme close range (aka scram range). Tackle ...profit.. laugh
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#59 - 2014-09-16 12:50:36 UTC
Pleistarchus Shikkoken wrote:
Damp the **** out of the garmour in wich he can't lock except at extreme close range (aka scram range). Tackle ...profit.. laugh


I would expect that a garmur pilot would simply disengage if you damped him. Remember, these are primarily ships for being hard to catch. In other words, pilot isn't worried about killing you,, he's worried about you killing him. No garmur pilot will fly into scram range. As soon as you make it dangerous, he'll just give up.

At least, to date Ihaven't seen anyone in a garmur do anything else.

T-
Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2014-09-16 14:04:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Oddsodz
Remiel Pollard wrote:
what matters is what you can do about it.



And that is the point, Right now I can not see a way to beat this,. That is why I am asking you guys.


Please,. Do take a minute (or 10) to re re read this whole thing again. I am not insulting anybody. But nobody has come with a valid way to counter this scenario apart from leave and don't come back. I Wish for a way to fight this that does not mean I have to sit AFK for hours looking at blank space only to get blown out of the water anyway. Don't matter if I win or lose,. But I want a chance of winning. Right now I do not one. Probeings links will not help me when I am in the fight and blowing up because not one weapon system in the game can hit. Getting friends will not help as I can not tank or get scram on the Garmur no matter how many Sensor booster I fit. As somebody already posted that due to server tick rates, I would never get scram before he is out of scram range. DAMPS are not going to help as most Garmur have there own sensor booster mods plus Warfare link that give extra lock range. And I would be in a novice or small plex, So I can't bring a cruiser or bigger. Keres with 2 damps is dead in 2 volleys. Keres has no tank in that setup. I Can't probe down the link booster ship,. And nobody else can in the time frame needed to kill the Garmur or the booster, No matter how I see it. Effort is not the issue. Not getting a chance to win is the issue.