Wormholes

It should not be "moon goo" at any rate. That is a passive income activity which should be discouraged. You could argue the same about mining in general, but this is not the thread for proposing mining changes.

The same resources should be made available in scannable signatures; I would have dumped them into the generic "Grav" sites category in the past, which would also have included the occasional and random ice field. I believe harvesting/mining comets was an idea that was floated.

It would be interesting to have the stuff there, but it should neither be static, predictable, nor consistent. If it's present at all (still questionable). There should be more reasons to leave the home wormhole, not more reasons to turtle up.

There are also still a number of wormhole resources that are so infrequently used and available in such quantities as to render them useless. Rebalance the Sleeper salvage usage in blueprints, and add new items to the game that require Sleeper salvage and other WH "goo" first.


But don't expect these things any time soon, especially moon materials. That would come dangerously close to touching Nullsec industry and would therefore never happen.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, WH Moon Goo is a non starter for me personally.

W-space needs a new entirely different economic driver outside of T3 production, and outside of resources used or gathered from K-space.

For example, if we take income sourced from L4 security missions as kind of a baseline. C1 income should beat that easily. C2's would be a step above that. C3's would start around the same level as what the average incursion runner would expect to make hourly, C4's a step above that. C5's and C6's should be flat out the best personal income available considering the resources needed to extract that income and the personal risks pilots are putting on the line to keep making it.

Most folks would probably prioritize POS revamps ahead of this. It's my opinion that W-space needs to re-establish itself as the best isk making venture for small to medium sized corps and alliances. 20-500 pilots respectively. It would make sense that C6 space would be a logical stepping stone for W-space corps to make a transition from there to null-sov if they so chose to take that route. Something of a stepping stone or a place for disenfranchised null blobbers to regroup and make isk to restablish themselves.

This has a two fold benefit of bringing in more pilots for W-space dedicated residents to shoot at, and making W-space more attractive versus high-reward low-risk Incursions.

Good points.

POS revamp really only affects a handful of people per corporation usually. Would we all benefit from a standard of living change to them to make them easier to use and easier to secure? Sure. Absolutly, CCP has a buttload of work to do to make them compartmentalized enough from the existing code to make radical changes that would be neccessry to give us those QoL changes.

From what I've heard and seen in the past is that tweaking WH income and putting in new economic ventures tied to Sleepers, W-space anoms and PI could be implimented far quicker than fundamental changes to POS code.

Simply adjusting WH income to be competitive with Hisec Incursions would be a boon, since Incursions came out, it feels like W-space has seen steady declines in interest from pilots over the years.

Agreed, you need something to drive conflict. We are a pvp corp and we want to kill things. That is my motivation for these comments, not to become space rich..

Currently we have a number of members that run incursions to make isk, wormhole risk vs reward is very skewed as nanoribbons have dropped in price over the years. Once you get a certain number of people running sites together, the isk per hour drops dramatically, even in things like c4s. When even level 4's can generate almost equal isk per hour, let alone incursions, something is wrong. If people aren't dual/triple boxxing, you aren't going to make very good money. Here we are in 0.0 with no local, and we can make almost just as much money in highsec? That seems silly. The amount of "daytrippers" has dropped significantly due to this.

I agree Moon Goo is not the answer, as it doesn't drive conflict. At least with PI, you can catch haulers at a customs office. And PI barely covers your tower fuel costs unless again you are multiboxxing. My idea would be to make nanoribbons useful for more things, to get our prices back to what they once were. Or you could even create a "sleeper faction" to drop faction modules. Then even c1 sites are potentially worth running. More people running sites = more people to kill. More people with more money = more pvp as overall population increases and they aren't worried about losing 3 days of carebearing in one go. Perhaps then my members wouldn't have to leave wormholes to make semi-decent isk or farm for a week to make up a t3/faction battleship loss. I'm fine with more escalations, give us super battleships in c4s or something, wormholes are supposed to be challenging. But increasing nanoribbon counts aren't the answer, as you will just dilute the market even more.

I would like to point out that even the largest "PVP" groups CAN and DO carebear right there with the most affluent of bear. It comes with living in wh space. Don"t let them fool you.

I imagine they do, or they fund their PVP with other chars, or whatever. W-space was my primary source of income until Hyperion though, and the reason I don't do PvE there anymore is the PVP guys are noticeably more hungry. I've watched 12 guys in a PVP corp spin their wheels for 3 hours today, getting 1 kill between them. That can't be very fun. Hell, I'm probably having more fun watching them under cloak than they are trying to bait with Ventures and getting no takers.

So there's a PVP corp of 12 (online) guys reduced to ship spinning. Really sad. Just as sad as me not making any ISK since Hyp! :(

A cool trailer wont fix wspace though, lol. It would be like put lipstick on a pig :p If can make it more attractive to interact with, either live in or daytrip too. Then, after that, perhaps a cool trailer, hehe.

The first step, and Hyperion was not exactly a "step", would be for CCP to actually start viewing wormholes as an "intended" place for players to live and reside. The whole "we never intended for players to live in wormholes" is an old, tired cop-out, meaning that players are making a partially developed section of the game viable.

This is that part, 5 years later, where CCP actually looks at wormholes and makes adjustments, changes, and applies content to drive people into a completely developed section called "wormholes".

Moon goo would be terrible to introduce to wspace. Only exception would be if a "new type" of moon go was introduced used in some new type of production. (and it still would be terrible passive income). Rewards should always be based on effort and activity imho.

I think that corbexx work in identifying exactly what the real income in lower class holes will be invaluable, and I hope that he has the time to revisit the ones he has already done post hyperion, as the risk reward equation is significantly skewed towards risk since. There certainly needs to be a real effort put into resolving the issues created by the patch.

If we add income, there is a real benefit in getting people into space, adding more passive income, whilst simple to predict, does not really bring more vitality to wormhole space, so I personally am not in favour of moon goo type operations.

There is a real issue, that when small corps have one or two members on, that apart from scanning, ganking, pos spinning, or ninja gas mining,there is little to do, as the c1-2 sites are simply not worth running, in relation to risk and C3 sites tend to mean the actual loss of ships to reward, does not actually make a lot of sense. (Your mileage may vary)

If there was an activity, that would encourage one to go down the chain a jump or two, and NOT need to go to KS or pos spin waiting for others, that would increase both daytrippers and residents.

CCP, It is like a restaurant, if customers are going out to macdonalds after the main course to get a quick cheeseburger, coffee or an apple pie because they are not satisfied, isn't it time to look at sorting out your menu and portions?