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Dodging Wardecs

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Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#741 - 2014-09-15 08:54:11 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Seneca Auran wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Seneca Auran wrote:

I'm not sure what definition of 'balance' you're using, but I don't think it's the traditional one.


That'd be the part where one unintended mechanic is not supposed to completely negate an intended mechanic with zero consequences.


CCP has rather clearly stated that is not an 'unintended mechanic'.


The existence of the surrender mechanic displays otherwise.


So you're saying that CCP don't know if it was an intended mechanic or not.

I should think they would have a better idea than you do.

Have you ever thought that the surrender mechanics didn't turn out the way they were intended?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#742 - 2014-09-15 08:54:22 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
In the context of the above posts I wonder if it's obvious ...
... that I'm not wearing anything.



If it's obvious, you'll have pics, or it didn't happen Pirate

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#743 - 2014-09-15 08:55:51 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Surrender mechanic is intended for large corps where dropping is not practical/desired. The stupid people who decc 1 man corps deserve their 30-1 loss - surrender mechanic is not intended for that scenario, unless for some reason the 1 man corp doesn't want to disband.


And I'll ask again, you base this statement on what?


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#744 - 2014-09-15 08:58:15 UTC
Dalto Bane wrote:
Ah, OP.. hashing out a topic as old as time and as controversial as politics. I have been booed from my soapbox many times in my views of dec dodges and NPC Corps. Much like Sov Mechanics, there is no easy fix for the War Dec system. Well, there is an easy fix, but HS Dwellers, both Carebears and War Mongers alike would scream to high heaven and would most certainly cause a drop in subscriptions. Kill Rights should be granted for the duration of the current dec to the opposing side to anyone who drops corp. Raise the Tax Rate to 30% in NPC Corps. Give a stat and/or Skill Point debuff to anyone dropping corp during a dec for the duration. All of these or even one of these would curve the amount of dec dodgers in game. I have seen many great ideas for a solution to this problem, and I have seen each and every one of the flamed to hell because they don't make every player happy, or someone takes it as being "forced to play the game a certain way". This isn't bittervet sydrome... this is someone who has played the role of Indy Pilot, Pvp duder, victim, and aggressor, and spent less than a week in a NPC Corporation in 4 years of subbing... that isn't to pat myself on the back, but to slap the face of any cowards that use the broken mechanic as a way to circumvent righteous pewpew'ing.


QFT

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#745 - 2014-09-15 09:03:10 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
In the context of the above posts I wonder if it's obvious ...
... that I'm not wearing anything.

Didn't believe this thread was serious ... I stand corrected!
As soon as I leave my warm, cozy bed .........


Need a little help staying warm... ?

















*farts under the covers then pulls them up over your head*

Big smile

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#746 - 2014-09-15 09:22:44 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Seneca Auran wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Seneca Auran wrote:

I'm not sure what definition of 'balance' you're using, but I don't think it's the traditional one.


That'd be the part where one unintended mechanic is not supposed to completely negate an intended mechanic with zero consequences.


CCP has rather clearly stated that is not an 'unintended mechanic'.


The existence of the surrender mechanic displays otherwise.


So you're saying that CCP don't know if it was an intended mechanic or not.

I should think they would have a better idea than you do.

Have you ever thought that the surrender mechanics didn't turn out the way they were intended?


And have you ever thought that the "inconvenience" CCP mentions is for the Directors / offices / offlines / posses and what nots. Not the "inconvenience of 5 minutes and 1mil isk.

Have you ever thought that the drop corp mechanic didn't turn out the way they were intended.?
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#747 - 2014-09-15 09:36:00 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Have you ever thought that the drop corp mechanic didn't turn out the way they were intended.?



Tbh I don't really care if they did or not. What I do know is dodging war-decs is a legitimate tactic. Drop and reform is not the only tactic to dodge war-decs by.

Most that complain about drop and reform are only complaining because they aren't getting the easy kills.

Why don't you war-dec a corp. that actually wants to fight back, I'm sure you would have more fun if PvP is truly what it's about.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#748 - 2014-09-15 09:50:18 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Have you ever thought that the drop corp mechanic didn't turn out the way they were intended.?



Tbh I don't really care if they did or not. What I do know is dodging war-decs is a legitimate tactic. Drop and reform is not the only tactic to dodge war-decs by.

Most that complain about drop and reform are only complaining because they aren't getting the easy kills.

Why don't you war-dec a corp. that actually wants to fight back, I'm sure you would have more fun if PvP is truly what it's about.



Again with the easy kills. In no way am I after easy kills. Infact I am the corp dropper, and a total coward. Even so I can still see what is wrong with it, and such can also see the inbalance of it.

I do not in any way shape or form deny the use of a CCP excepted mechanic. Does not mean I think it is unbalanced, and want it fixed.

Hypocritical? No. It is just plain common sense.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#749 - 2014-09-15 10:01:24 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:


I do not in any way shape or form deny the use of a CCP excepted mechanic. Does not mean I think it is unbalanced, and want it fixed.

Hypocritical? No. It is just plain common sense.



Difference is you see it as broken, I don't.

I see it as a way to keep people playing the game, without getting bored sitting in stations or playing other games.



The main problem with the game is that it tries to cater for PvPers and PvEers, those two groups never mix well.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#750 - 2014-09-15 11:43:02 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:

Difference is you see it as broken, I don't.


That's because it stands to benefit you, and not the people you don't like.


Quote:

I see it as a way to keep people playing the game, without getting bored sitting in stations or playing other games.


Ah, the good old "PvP makes people quit!" fallacy. Hadn't heard that one in a few pages.

Quote:

The main problem with the game is that it tries to cater for PvPers and PvEers, those two groups never mix well.


The main problem is that carebears think they get to pretend that a PvP, sandbox MMORPG is a single player game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#751 - 2014-09-15 11:46:44 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:

Difference is you see it as broken, I don't.


That's because it stands to benefit you, and not the people you don't like.





Doesn't benefit me at all as I don't disband and reform corps.

I know this might be hard to believe but there are people in the world that can think beyond, what do they get out of it.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#752 - 2014-09-15 11:50:20 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:

Difference is you see it as broken, I don't.


That's because it stands to benefit you, and not the people you don't like.





Doesn't benefit me at all as I don't disband and reform corps.

I know this might be hard to believe but there are people in the world that can think beyond, what do they get out of it.


Read what I said again. I didn't say it benefits you specifically, merely that it stands to in opposition of benefiting the people you don't like.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#753 - 2014-09-15 11:59:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Grog Aftermath
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:

Difference is you see it as broken, I don't.


That's because it stands to benefit you, and not the people you don't like.





Doesn't benefit me at all as I don't disband and reform corps.

I know this might be hard to believe but there are people in the world that can think beyond, what do they get out of it.


Read what I said again. I didn't say it benefits you specifically, merely that it stands to in opposition of benefiting the people you don't like.


You're making an assumption that I don't like you or people like you. Just because you suicide gank someone doesn't mean I automatically dislike you. I can honestly say there's very few people that I genuinely dislike.

Thought processes tend to work better if not clouded by emotions.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#754 - 2014-09-15 12:03:31 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:

You're making an assumption that I don't like you or people like you.


No, that's a judgement based on your post history. You're about as bad of a carebear advocate as you can be without being Ripard Teg.


Quote:

Thought processes tend to work better if not clouded by emotions.


Oh, the irony.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#755 - 2014-09-15 12:18:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Grog Aftermath
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:

You're making an assumption that I don't like you or people like you.


No, that's a judgement based on your post history. You're about as bad of a carebear advocate as you can be without being Ripard Teg.


Quote:

Thought processes tend to work better if not clouded by emotions.


Oh, the irony.




There's no irony at all, it's pretty much fact. You might perceive me to be an emotional person, but that's not the reality.

My past posting history, I say what I think and defend what I consider to be right. Doesn't matter if it effects me personally as GD is a place for discussion.

I wouldn't even call myself a carebear as it's more a mix of the two.



My perception of your style of writing is liken to a troll. 'Oh, the irony' classic troll reply.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#756 - 2014-09-15 12:25:30 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:

I wouldn't even call myself a carebear as it's more a mix of the two.



Which is why I called you a carebear advocate, instead of a carebear. There is a difference.

One of them is barely even analogous to a real player, they're more like destructible terrain than anything else, fit only for being destroyed for the amusement of others.

The other is someone who is either severely misguided, often due to having swallowed the "EVE is dying" lie, or they are just trolling.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#757 - 2014-09-15 13:54:00 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:

I wouldn't even call myself a carebear as it's more a mix of the two.



Which is why I called you a carebear advocate, instead of a carebear. There is a difference.

One of them is barely even analogous to a real player, they're more like destructible terrain than anything else, fit only for being destroyed for the amusement of others.

The other is someone who is either severely misguided, often due to having swallowed the "EVE is dying" lie, or they are just trolling.



You know Kaarous, that analogy...likening dyed in the wool carebears to destructible terrain...applies in reverse as well. To a blinders fully engaged carebear, PvPers in all forms and stripes are simply AI-driven rats with game-given ability to mess with their fun in occasionally annoying ways.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#758 - 2014-09-15 14:00:03 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:


Why don't you war-dec a corp. that actually wants to fight back, I'm sure you would have more fun if PvP is truly what it's about.



I've been saying for pages and pages and pages (AND pages) that it's not always about the PVP. It's about inconveniencing and denying content. As Veers or whatever his name is said, it's an embargo of sorts. You'll find that many of not most wardecs from merc corps have 0 kills, but in that week they kept the WT shut-in, and thats the goal.


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#759 - 2014-09-15 14:13:43 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:


Why don't you war-dec a corp. that actually wants to fight back, I'm sure you would have more fun if PvP is truly what it's about.



I've been saying for pages and pages and pages (AND pages) that it's not always about the PVP. It's about inconveniencing and denying content. As Veers or whatever his name is said, it's an embargo of sorts. You'll find that many of not most wardecs from merc corps have 0 kills, but in that week they kept the WT shut-in, and thats the goal.




I know for you it's not about the PvP as we've already discussed it.

Well why should CCP allow players to be war-dec'd without anyway to avoid them? That's not in CCPs interest or the players that you war-dec.

Even if they all joined npc corps. it wouldn't solve the issue. Making people having to join an npc corp. (why taxes?) just seems very petty to me.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#760 - 2014-09-15 14:15:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:


Why don't you war-dec a corp. that actually wants to fight back, I'm sure you would have more fun if PvP is truly what it's about.



I've been saying for pages and pages and pages (AND pages) that it's not always about the PVP. It's about inconveniencing and denying content. As Veers or whatever his name is said, it's an embargo of sorts. You'll find that many of not most wardecs from merc corps have 0 kills, but in that week they kept the WT shut-in, and thats the goal.




You will never defeat the "if you want pvp find someone else who wants pvp" dodge. it's one of those things that people (mostly high sec people) say to make themselves feel better about holding what amounts to an untenable opinion.

I've been in the same boat many times. No matter how much I tell people that I'm a pve player who isn't some ship v ship pvp fanatic, they insist that the ONLY reason I could possibly hold any opinion contrary to theirs is some selfish desire to make their ship explode thus padding my killboard and puffing up my ego. No matter how many time I tell them "unless you are a Guristas that has become self aware, you are generally safe from me lol", they cling to that incorrect belief.

They HAVE to, what they believe doesn't work without greedy, evil people trying to do them harm. It's no different from them saying "you are trying to push me out of high sec into low so you can kill me" despite the fact that almost no one cares about if they leave high sec or not..

It's also because the realization that no on gives a damn about what they do would hurt Cool