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Snr GM allegedly rules "Starbase Forcefield Ship Bumping" not exploit

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Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#81 - 2014-09-13 22:47:40 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
If logs don't show nothing, video shows what happened , and we know how to reproduce this.
Bugged logger?

CCP cannot base its actions only on logs.
Because all RMT don't fall under the "logs".

If then every one can sell 100 plex for 1 isk .

Btw.
Why do you think that people are stupid?
This is broken mechanic - CCP is aware about this.
Thats why the policy was put in place.

Death to all supers?
Agree - perma bans all people who where involved in this.
This will be few more titans out of the game, this time game will be free of few buggers.

Think about the impact - people braking polices , and abusing bugs get their titan pilots baned.
Who will ever try again to bug in this way?


I guess maybe you didn't hear yet

CCP said it is NOT a bug and it is OK, so NO ONE will get banned for this

They said it is because the ships are bigger than what you see on screen due to the spheres, so although the spheres touch thru the shield, the ships themselves didn't actually go thru the shields, so it is OK



Only things we know is:

1) Reproduction of the happenigs use mechanics which are bannable via the December 2013 announcement

2) Mr Vee didn't get reimbursed because CCp couldn't verify that it was used against him from logs and 3rd party evidence is not admissible

Nowhere was said that the December 2013 exploit notification is null and void.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#82 - 2014-09-14 02:18:17 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
If logs don't show nothing, video shows what happened , and we know how to reproduce this.
Bugged logger?

CCP cannot base its actions only on logs.
Because all RMT don't fall under the "logs".

If then every one can sell 100 plex for 1 isk .

Btw.
Why do you think that people are stupid?
This is broken mechanic - CCP is aware about this.
Thats why the policy was put in place.

Death to all supers?
Agree - perma bans all people who where involved in this.
This will be few more titans out of the game, this time game will be free of few buggers.

Think about the impact - people braking polices , and abusing bugs get their titan pilots baned.
Who will ever try again to bug in this way?


I guess maybe you didn't hear yet

CCP said it is NOT a bug and it is OK, so NO ONE will get banned for this

They said it is because the ships are bigger than what you see on screen due to the spheres, so although the spheres touch thru the shield, the ships themselves didn't actually go thru the shields, so it is OK



Only things we know is:

1) Reproduction of the happenigs use mechanics which are bannable via the December 2013 announcement

2) Mr Vee didn't get reimbursed because CCp couldn't verify that it was used against him from logs and 3rd party evidence is not admissible

Nowhere was said that the December 2013 exploit notification is null and void.



You are morphing 2 things

Doing what got people banned in Dec 2013 will still get you banned today

Doing what was done last week will not

One was purposefully doing something to your ships to gain access to a POS you didn't have the password for, the other is cynoing in and having spheres touch without ever entering the POS (Ship sphere is bigger than physical model)

Nothing in wording from CCP says your sphere can't enter the POS
Anthar Thebess
#83 - 2014-09-14 07:52:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
We can talk here as much as we can.

CCP Fozzie stated more than once that he reads every thing.

So lets ask CCP Fozzie , or someone else from CCP:

Is bumping ships from pos shields when you don't have access to pos (pos is properly configured) is forbidden by policy.


Of course this question include all possible situations - the base rule is :
if you don't have access to pos - you cannot use any means to bump something out of the shields.

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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#84 - 2014-09-14 11:45:42 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
We can talk here as much as we can.

CCP Fozzie stated more than once that he reads every thing.

So lets ask CCP Fozzie , or someone else from CCP:

Is bumping ships from pos shields when you don't have access to pos (pos is properly configured) is forbidden by policy.


Of course this question include all possible situations - the base rule is :
if you don't have access to pos - you cannot use any means to bump something out of the shields.



The base rule is this: http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-forcefield-access/?_ga=1.218636058.267855027.1374947070

That beign said, if the ships is close to the shield edge, its sphere is also outside the shields, even if it can't be seen, and if another large ships gets close and it's sphere bumps, did it really enter the POS shields

Survey says no, and that is why no one got banned - for this situation
Anthar Thebess
#85 - 2014-09-14 13:15:46 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
We can talk here as much as we can.

CCP Fozzie stated more than once that he reads every thing.

So lets ask CCP Fozzie , or someone else from CCP:

Is bumping ships from pos shields when you don't have access to pos (pos is properly configured) is forbidden by policy.


Of course this question include all possible situations - the base rule is :
if you don't have access to pos - you cannot use any means to bump something out of the shields.



The base rule is this: http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-forcefield-access/?_ga=1.218636058.267855027.1374947070

That beign said, if the ships is close to the shield edge, its sphere is also outside the shields, even if it can't be seen, and if another large ships gets close and it's sphere bumps, did it really enter the POS shields

Survey says no, and that is why no one got banned - for this situation


What if a ship is well inside of the pos , including its sphere , and bumping ship is titan that can aproach pos shields close enough that its own sphere reaches well to much inside of the pos?

You are also not CCP employee.
CCP is loosing people fast , but i think there will be someone that will care to respond, and give clear answer.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#86 - 2014-09-14 14:45:37 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
We can talk here as much as we can.

CCP Fozzie stated more than once that he reads every thing.

So lets ask CCP Fozzie , or someone else from CCP:

Is bumping ships from pos shields when you don't have access to pos (pos is properly configured) is forbidden by policy.


Of course this question include all possible situations - the base rule is :
if you don't have access to pos - you cannot use any means to bump something out of the shields.



The base rule is this: http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-forcefield-access/?_ga=1.218636058.267855027.1374947070

That beign said, if the ships is close to the shield edge, its sphere is also outside the shields, even if it can't be seen, and if another large ships gets close and it's sphere bumps, did it really enter the POS shields

Survey says no, and that is why no one got banned - for this situation


What if a ship is well inside of the pos , including its sphere , and bumping ship is titan that can aproach pos shields close enough that its own sphere reaches well to much inside of the pos?

You are also not CCP employee.
CCP is loosing people fast , but i think there will be someone that will care to respond, and give clear answer.


The CLEAR answer is the fact no one got banned - I don't know how much more clear that could be

Just because you want to make it blurry doesn't negate the fact it has ALREADY been decided
Anthar Thebess
#87 - 2014-09-14 17:02:32 UTC
Sorry, i have policy that states otherwise.
Do we know CCP answer - NO.
Do we know if someone got banned? - NO.

This don't have to be perma bans , CCP quite often use 30 day bans or gives warnings.
People are obligated to not share this with any one.

Thats why i'm asking CCP if policy about pos bumping have changed.
Currently it clearly states that no pos bumping is allowed when ship is in FF and you don't have password or access to this pos.

Poses are very important part of eve game play , especially in nullsec.
I want to know if i can leave ship on pos without danger that someone will bump it out of the forcefield.

Now using the same tactics you can easily bump out any capital ship sitting in small tower , even when it sits very near of the tower.
Again if the is distance from the pos shields that you have to keep to be safe - i would like to CCP put this also in the policy.
Something like .

Ships can be bumped from shields if they are closer than 10km from the edge of the forcefield.

CCP Fozzie , any one from CCP , can we get an answer what is safe place in the pos shields?
Can we even consider small towers safe?

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Xapitan Bomba
#88 - 2014-09-14 19:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Xapitan Bomba
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Do we know if someone got banned? - NO.

I think that banning members of a coallition which left ~$10,000 in beer only, during 2014 fanfest is a risky move for CCP 2014/2015 financial situation, so bannings in the current #2 coallition in eve will not happen.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#89 - 2014-09-14 20:10:41 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Sorry, i have policy that states otherwise.
Do we know CCP answer - NO.
Do we know if someone got banned? - NO.

This don't have to be perma bans , CCP quite often use 30 day bans or gives warnings.
People are obligated to not share this with any one.

Thats why i'm asking CCP if policy about pos bumping have changed.
Currently it clearly states that no pos bumping is allowed when ship is in FF and you don't have password or access to this pos.

Poses are very important part of eve game play , especially in nullsec.
I want to know if i can leave ship on pos without danger that someone will bump it out of the forcefield.

Now using the same tactics you can easily bump out any capital ship sitting in small tower , even when it sits very near of the tower.
Again if the is distance from the pos shields that you have to keep to be safe - i would like to CCP put this also in the policy.
Something like .

Ships can be bumped from shields if they are closer than 10km from the edge of the forcefield.

CCP Fozzie , any one from CCP , can we get an answer what is safe place in the pos shields?
Can we even consider small towers safe?



Are you really that dense

Yes, we do know no one got banned. the guys who got his titan killed posted the letter from the GM saying it was a good kill, not only was he not getting reimbursed, but they could find no wrong doing in the logs



I can guarantee you small towers are NOT safe, no titan will fit in a small tower, you will stick out PERIOD
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#90 - 2014-09-14 21:27:55 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:

The CLEAR answer is the fact no one got banned - I don't know how much more clear that could be

Just because you want to make it blurry doesn't negate the fact it has ALREADY been decided

To be fair, that doesn't mean it's not considered an exploit - it just means the logs show nothing, like they always do.

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#91 - 2014-09-14 21:57:21 UTC
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:

The CLEAR answer is the fact no one got banned - I don't know how much more clear that could be

Just because you want to make it blurry doesn't negate the fact it has ALREADY been decided

To be fair, that doesn't mean it's not considered an exploit - it just means the logs show nothing, like they always do.



Is there anything else that matters??
Anthar Thebess
#92 - 2014-09-15 07:01:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Sorry this is not only about titans, every subcapital and capital can be bumped this way from pos shields.

Please CCP state how much you have to be from pos shields to be safe.
Currently any thing can be bumped form small tower , and bigger part of medium tower is also not safe.
Any one in CCP left that can answer this question?

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Berry Myotis
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2014-09-15 08:00:35 UTC
eve online is for ...

replace "BOB" with "NC." and will be still very actual ;)
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#94 - 2014-09-15 14:12:40 UTC
If anyone thinks CCP are going to come to this thread and give the end all be all answer to this, there are some contracts in jita you need to buy.....
Anthar Thebess
#95 - 2014-09-15 16:25:49 UTC
Well i hope that someone from CCP cares to comment on this.

Bumping someone from pos shields was forbidden by policy.
Now , if this GM response is true - it is sanctioned eve mechanic.

For me this is big change , and what is bad about having clear statement about this ?

Something like :
Pos bumping is no longer considered exploit and now it is sanctioned eve mechanic.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#96 - 2014-09-15 16:40:48 UTC
Paul Tsukaya wrote:
There are rumors that a senior GM stated....
Exactly. So don't post about it.

Thread locked.

The Rules:
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Rumor threads and posts which are based off no actual solid information and are designed to either troll or annoy other users will be locked and removed. These kinds of threads and posts are detrimental to the well being and spirit of the EVE Online Community, and can create undue panic among forum users, as well as adding to the workload of our moderators.

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