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incursion design
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James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#21 - 2014-09-11 09:05:30 UTC
Solette Cheli wrote:
ISN stole from TVP, TVP got mad, now TVP is rage popping mom sites once ISN forms a HQ fleet.
Didyouknow: 6 HQ sites = 7.5b total? Asssuming they've got all 40 people of course. And that doesn't include the concord lp.

ISN kept loot. This isn't theft, as they didn't kill, defraud or otherwise make the effort of getting the modules off the TVP fleet, nor are they involved in the DDoS attacks. A new member of TVP leadership (who hadn't had much of a name in incursions before becoming TVP leadership) asked for it back, and submitted credentials via the in-game chat channel MOTD. Noble Ranger, unless there has been a stealth unban, has been banned from TVP for years. So effectively a nobody, claiming to be a muckeymuck, asks for several billion in modules looted at a fair bit of personal risk (cause I mean, if noble was flashy and on grid, I'd go for the pod. Couple billion for the corpse at auction minimum.) and of course is denied, as the "proof" offered is inaccessible.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Big rEy
Ro Maniacs
Fragsters
#22 - 2014-09-12 09:50:08 UTC
Did you know that:
1. ISN has more new members now?
2. ISN didn't form in the past days because of other resons, not because it dies?
3. ISN never formed everyday in the past?
4. ISN does not hire mercs to start HQ? LOL, really? WTF?
5. ISN will use multiboxers (not isboxers) just to start a fleet? They are replaced fast by players.
6. ISN didn't kill the last night mom? It was a contest, we took the gate at the same time TVP&TDF did. We just won. Without boosters on!
7. ISN is not a giant propaganda machine? Since we have just enough to make a fleet.
8. ISN did not even respond with action after TVP started this?
9. ISN always took ages to form. If it takes 3h to form a HQ now, it does not mean ISN is dead. It's just ISN forming normally. Any delay is caused by players having to move.
10. ISN still makes enough isk when TVP pops a mom.

11. TVP has enough active members to form and run in 10 min?
12. TVP is able to run 2 HQ fleets at the same time in ISN prime time?
13. TVP has the biggest incursion SRP, even if the program started like just before Noble looted the field?
14. TVP has the most incursion FC's?
15. TVP can and do make about the same amount of ISK/h as ISN overall if TCRC wall is up? Sadly it's not constant.
16. TVP allow ISN members to run with them? I run with them as well.
17. TVP members hate ISN because TVP leaders and older members hate ISN for contesting them?
18. TVP waitlist is soo big it sometimes takes more than 2h to get in fleet?
19. TVP is not bad?
20. TVP got better at not spurging comms?

21. ISboxers are training to gank TVP members so they can make ISK again?
22. WTM is more affected by this than ISN is?
23. TVP does not want to change their policy?
24. ISN is a HQ community so they have to run HQ's?
25. This problem will never be over since ISN players are too strong and bound while TVP has way bigger numbers?
26. It's not the first time this happens?
27. ISN raffles the mom loot?
28. Some days ago in a mom contest, ISN got to mom wreck, a TVP member in a rifter looted it, a ISN member blapped the rifter, then TVP got the loot again but returned it to ISN?
29. Incursions never been so fun in the past 11 months since I started to run incursions? The drama in locals is too much to take. Even I am pissed and start spurging sometimes.
30. Not everyone that doesn't disagree with TVP is an ISN alt?

I tried to be neutral as much as I could. Sorry if either partys are upset in some way or do not agree with me.
English it's not my primary language. Deal with it.

1 Uncover Starr 61600
2 Katharine Venus 61600
3 Maria Checkov 61600
4 rak lera 61600
5 Amarak Valerii 61600
6 TJ Arbosa 61600
7 Caska Hawks 61600
8 Scyllass 61600
9 Big rEy 61600

#nerfISN

I Don't always PvP, but when I do...

I Don't always PvP, but when I do...
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#23 - 2014-09-13 07:15:43 UTC
Big rEy wrote:

13. TVP has the biggest incursion SRP, even if the program started like just before Noble looted the field?


#nerfISN

Strongly doubt that TVP's SRP outstrips the DIN-Flotten SRP. At last I bothered asking, it was double digit trillions, which means that in a straight attritional war of stupid stuff costing the SRP money, DIN wins, especially since their core member base is typically almost as space rich as ISN.

Also, can't nerf ISN without nerfing everyone, because smart and ballsy are supposed to be rewarded.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
IIIIIIIIIIBIIIIIIIIII Tokila
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-09-13 23:18:46 UTC
Noble is just a internet spaceship game dweeb.

NOBLE THIS ISN'T REAL BR'A.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#25 - 2014-09-14 07:16:10 UTC
IIIIIIIIIIBIIIIIIIIII Tokila wrote:
Noble is just a internet spaceship game dweeb.

NOBLE THIS ISN'T REAL BR'A.

Dude, check out ISN coms someday. Almost everyone on them is laughing at TVP for the butthurt is strong with them.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Oxide Ammar
#26 - 2014-09-14 07:50:17 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
IIIIIIIIIIBIIIIIIIIII Tokila wrote:
Noble is just a internet spaceship game dweeb.

NOBLE THIS ISN'T REAL BR'A.

Dude, check out ISN coms someday. Almost everyone on them is laughing at TVP for the butthurt is strong with them.


You laugh me laugh let's meet after 6 months of moms popping every time ISN undock......and let's see who is still laughing.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
n2cthe1
HQ MATO
#27 - 2014-09-14 12:18:48 UTC  |  Edited by: n2cthe1
So, let me get this straight.

TVP say that they will stop ISN from flying HQ sites by popping the Mom as soon as ISN form a HQ fleet.

Okay, on the face of it that seems to be a valid strategy, whether you agree with it or not.

Then TVP blame the incursion closure on ISN because they formed a fleet.

This does not add up. There is no reason for ISN not to form a fleet. Just because TVP says not to is not sufficient reason.

If another inc community told TVP not to form a HQ fleet, TVP would ignore them. Seems to be exactly what ISN is doing, ignoring TVP.

TVP's thinking is flawed, it would seem, and somewhat naive.

Essentially, TVP are saying "ISN made us pop the Mom" by forming a HQ fleet. Pretty poor reasoning from TVP.

TVP need to man-up. They are responsible for Mom-popping, not ISN.

TVP may feel they are justified in Mom-popping but they must accept responsibility for closing the incursion, not try to blame others.
Sentenced 1989
#28 - 2014-09-14 13:25:25 UTC
n2cthe1 wrote:

TVP may feel they are justified in Mom-popping but they must accept responsibility for closing the incursion, not try to blame others.


I think in response, we should pop the mom every time TVP forms an HQ fleet as well :D

The Incursion Guild

Epic Arc Guide
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-09-14 15:07:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky
Sentenced 1989 wrote:
n2cthe1 wrote:

TVP may feel they are justified in Mom-popping but they must accept responsibility for closing the incursion, not try to blame others.


I think in response, we should pop the mom every time TVP forms an HQ fleet as well :D

I'm gonna be honest, I don't mind who I fly with so long as they're reliable and I have a good safety net for my vindi and they aren't garbage, but this whole "wah muh stolen loot, shoot moms because ISN" whining is really immature and I hate having to pick up and move my stuff every few hours just to get to an incursion. I'm not making money I wish it would stop.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#30 - 2014-09-15 08:52:28 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
IIIIIIIIIIBIIIIIIIIII Tokila wrote:
Noble is just a internet spaceship game dweeb.

NOBLE THIS ISN'T REAL BR'A.

Dude, check out ISN coms someday. Almost everyone on them is laughing at TVP for the butthurt is strong with them.


You laugh me laugh let's meet after 6 months of moms popping every time ISN undock......and let's see who is still laughing.

I'mma be laughing. I got my pile reasonably well built up. Newbros? They'll be crying. Those with small isk/plex reserves? Crying, or unsubbed.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Blizzaro
Vahalla La
Rainbow Knights
#31 - 2014-09-19 02:58:20 UTC
To be honest its got to the point where ISN are needing to use ISboxer to get up HQ fleets anyone that has flown with/against them regularly recently knows this.

Let's all remember for a second we are talking communitys of "elite red cross shooters in highsec" people who fight the boredom of flying the same 3 sites for hours over and over, is it really a surprise there is drama/meta/spais here?

Every player that is forced to go explore other isk generating options ie null/wh/low means more fun for everybody, to those that quit? Goodbye, maybe try a theme park mmo as you are clearly not fully exploring the sandbox.

I do feel sorry for the people who have to wait up to 3 hours to get into the TVP fleet if you are a TVP regular I can only say we try to get 2nd fleets up as much as possible.

To the spurgers who threaten Nados and Decs I say Come at me.

Finally for a small donation of 20bil to the HK wallet I will stop popping moms.
Milan Nantucket
Doomheim
#32 - 2014-09-19 03:22:22 UTC
Awentia wrote:
Hi i am a long time player and i am not a rocket scientist, but i am wondering why the incursion system seams broken. I mean why are they so easily destroyed why would you spawn the mother ships so that a new incursion site goes down in 1 hour or less it seams like. and then we have to wait for the next re-spawn. i would think to kill the escalation it should have to be up for a static amount of time before the mother ships spawns and makes the incursion collapsible. You have people trying to enjoy this game doing incursions yet you allow them to just be insta popped by a bunch of "griefers" yes i say griefers because they really are getting nothing out of popping the sites except stopping others from being able to enjoy the game in the manner they wish. I think this was a very bad game mechanic design. this is just a personal observation.


Apparently you dont know that the goal is to pop the mom. They do get stuff and isk from doing it.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Incursion_sites#Mothership_sites
Loot Fairy
Honest Nolak's Payday Loan Shack
#33 - 2014-09-19 03:49:59 UTC
Blizzaro wrote:
To be honest its got to the point where ISN are needing to use ISboxer to get up HQ fleets anyone that has flown with/against them regularly recently knows this.

Let's all remember for a second we are talking communitys of "elite red cross shooters in highsec" people who fight the boredom of flying the same 3 sites for hours over and over, is it really a surprise there is drama/meta/spais here?

Every player that is forced to go explore other isk generating options ie null/wh/low means more fun for everybody, to those that quit? Goodbye, maybe try a theme park mmo as you are clearly not fully exploring the sandbox.

I do feel sorry for the people who have to wait up to 3 hours to get into the TVP fleet if you are a TVP regular I can only say we try to get 2nd fleets up as much as possible.

To the spurgers who threaten Nados and Decs I say Come at me.

Finally for a small donation of 20bil to the HK wallet I will stop popping moms.


Only splurgelord I see is TVP atm.

Check out Big Rey's post above yours. They aren't multiboxing. Nice try though!

I did love the 7b bribe TVP tried to send WTM. And the banning of one of WTM's diplo/officers for trying to correct Skyrider after Skyrider claimed WTM supported TVP. And the part where in the TS meeting after someone claimed TDF supported TVP the TDF officer came out and corrected the member. Same with the Helix guy.

Not to mention that TDF, RAISA, and DIN tried this before and it didn't work, and that during the meeting when someone asked TVP what the difference was between then, when TVP was one of the loudest voices opposing the poppings, and now, not a single TVP FC or Officer could give a legitimate reason why what TVP is doing now is any different than what happened 6 months ago.
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2014-09-19 09:29:53 UTC
Well DIN did it to stop the contesting against them. I am not 100% sure about RAISA, while some claimed for a similar reason, I am not familiar enough with RAISA to answer that question or really know somebody that can give a correct answer on that without relaying on 3. hand information. As for TDF it was to bring people of the HQ community back together to talk about it, it was during the time DIN did it. At least that was what I am told back then in TDF as FC, however given the general poor reasoning I had my doubts.

Overall from my personal experience it will have a negative effect on the channel that does it(it did on DIN, even more so on TDF, I know the 2. case particular well) and I doubt that the goal of getting ISN out of the HQ system permanently will be successful since ISN and Noble are not likely to give in and some in ISN even enjoying the situation to a certain amount.

I also doubt that anybody would wait 3h in the wait list just to fly with TVP, given that last time I checked it takes like 15-30 minutes to find a fleet with a shield hull(lots of channels and lots of fleets around), you can be nearly instantly on grid in armor at least after DT till the end of EU TZ when IIC pub, OIC as well as most TDF FCs run.
Blizzaro
Vahalla La
Rainbow Knights
#35 - 2014-09-19 09:40:27 UTC
Jill Antaris wrote:


I also doubt that anybody would wait 3h in the wait list just to fly with TVP, given that last time I checked it takes like 15-30 minutes to find a fleet with a shield hull(lots of channels and lots of fleets around), you can be nearly instantly on grid in armor at least after DT till the end of EU TZ when IIC pub, OIC as well as most TDF FCs run.


I was shocked too but the post dt tz sometimes has 40 or more in wl 3 hour waits are the worst they get but I have invited many people who have waited 2+ hours and several over 3 next time it happens I will ss it.

Ask BigRey again about Jeb Isboxing super tanked non primary fit nm's to get the fleet up, not the first time and not the last ISN's shrinking community was only able to get a fleet up because of ISBox

Oh and to the wtm mom loot thing?

Yea the FC at the time felt a bit bad we were popping all the moms and were like yea here have some **** for free,
WTM then came back with some bs chatlog about bribery and yet they still took the loot even though they told us to f off?
We won't be feeling bad for them again although I personally have been avoiding contesting them if there are other sites available generally.

Anyway seriously don't x up for my fleets, I am the most toxic terrible fc tvp has and have a staggering number of loses.
Sentenced 1989
#36 - 2014-09-19 10:14:21 UTC
Blizzaro wrote:
Jill Antaris wrote:


I also doubt that anybody would wait 3h in the wait list just to fly with TVP, given that last time I checked it takes like 15-30 minutes to find a fleet with a shield hull(lots of channels and lots of fleets around), you can be nearly instantly on grid in armor at least after DT till the end of EU TZ when IIC pub, OIC as well as most TDF FCs run.


I was shocked too but the post dt tz sometimes has 40 or more in wl 3 hour waits are the worst they get but I have invited many people who have waited 2+ hours and several over 3 next time it happens I will ss it.

Ask BigRey again about Jeb Isboxing super tanked non primary fit nm's to get the fleet up, not the first time and not the last ISN's shrinking community was only able to get a fleet up because of ISBox

Oh and to the wtm mom loot thing?

Yea the FC at the time felt a bit bad we were popping all the moms and were like yea here have some **** for free,
WTM then came back with some bs chatlog about bribery and yet they still took the loot even though they told us to f off?
We won't be feeling bad for them again although I personally have been avoiding contesting them if there are other sites available generally.

Anyway seriously don't x up for my fleets, I am the most toxic terrible fc tvp has and have a staggering number of loses.


Most fleets out there use boxers to get running, including my VG channel, but every time I've been in ISN HQ fleet after work time in Europe, there hasn't been a single boxer (this was during July when TIG was on break, but I'm certain that policy is still the same since it was the same last summer in July as well). ISN's policy is that boxer dock up as soon as there is real person to replace it and it's only use to kick start fleet until +1 timezone finishes traveling home and eating. So your argument is invalid.

TVP has luxury of people standing up for 2-3 hours wait list and it has worked for certain degree for you, even though lately with you popping mom after people wait for that long is causing several pilots to leave and not look back. WTM and other smaller communities are seeing increased number of new pilots, which is great for us, bad for you.

TVP's MOM popping policy will have greater devastating effect on TVP then it will on ISN. You are forgetting ISN has smaller player base which is more closely tied together then TVP's player base whose loyalties lay elsewhere and not to any incursion community. And your argument that you will keep doing this as long as you have people xing up in your channel, really? And what when xing stops, when all the people you had leave for other communities? Use loot and SRP to bribe them back, or will you resort to full time boxing for several months till you build numbers back up?

And anyways, seriously, your latest comments and trolling give a hint that you are enjoying collateral effect of "ISN policy" a bit to much.

All in all, you are free to grief and run what ever policy you want within game, but scheming, plotting and trolling whilst trying to hold moral high ground is wrong and I will speak up against it. Not to mention, that other then DIN not a single other community is approving your actions. If I made a mistake, quote me and I will stand corrected.




The Incursion Guild

Epic Arc Guide
Blizzaro
Vahalla La
Rainbow Knights
#37 - 2014-09-19 10:17:05 UTC
I do not care what any other community thinks why would I?
Morpheus Blues
F.I.G.S.
#38 - 2014-09-19 10:29:54 UTC
Blizzaro wrote:
I do not care what any other community thinks why would I?



Paladins, Go home
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#39 - 2014-09-19 10:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Blizzaro wrote:
I do not care what any other community thinks why would I?

Such an enlightened leader, what are you 14?

Near as I can tell one group is trying to dismantle another group with a short sighted and ill conceived plan; it was not a well thought out plan, it is not having the intended effect and you want everyone in to think everything is going as planed.

Denying a small group of billionaires the ability to run sites at the expense of a large group of wait-list bored and angry members is and was a bad idea from it's inception. This continues for a few months and you will have alienated your entire member base with the exception of the FC's leaving you in a worse predicament than the loss of a few billion worth of modules. Is Noble a ****? yes he can be. Are your dickhead actions any better than his? not at all.

I know it's all a matter of saving face and not looking foolish at this point, but I think TVP might need to call it a win while they still have members willing to back them up.

Just an opinion from a old player that has seen this play out way to many damn times.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-09-19 10:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jill Antaris
Well it is in general not a good idea to alienating a channel and members towards each other. The situation in armor Incursion is actually a very sad but real example how the results of such actions look like. All it did was to divided player pools, less fleets, overall less choice for pilots, banning for participating in other armor channels like TDF enforces it and a lot FCs struggling with player count on grid, while others sit in wait list or wait for a TDF or wait on a OIC/IIC pub FC unable and in most cases unwilling to fly for both, since they don't want to get banned from TDF or don't want to support TDF on the other side of the coin for what they do as well as all kind of bad feelings it creates for people flying on different sides now. Btw that is all one sided(even for the most part only because of a single person in TDF) and still produces a very negative effect on hundreds of pilots that fly armor Incursions.

After all, what DIN did didn't produce any kind of positive result for them in the long run, it didn't for TDF, I doubt it did for RAISA and I don't believe it will for TVP.
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