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Are capsuleers slavers?

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Charax Bouclier
Silvershield Universal
#1 - 2014-09-13 14:42:15 UTC
I always enjoy a bit of immersion in my gaming and I ran across some information that a capsuleer isn't the only person manning your ship.

This article provides an estimate of crew sizes for the various ships in EVE: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines

Once I build a ship, there is no maintenance cost. If I am piloting a destroyer with 80 souls onboard, apparently they are happy to serve free of cost without any impact to my wallet.

Another disturbing thing to consider is the zealotry of suicide gankers. The capsuleer is not at mortal risk, but these savages apparently have no qualms about sacrificing 80 non-capsuleers for a dubious cause.

At any rate, it seems that there could be some interesting potential at developing crew mechanics to customize the effectiveness of your ships at certain things, and allow your crew to gain experience/skill the longer they are utilized and survive.

And, of course, slavery should be abolished and you should pay your crew a fair wage.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2 - 2014-09-13 14:47:18 UTC
I sure am.

That's what I consider the "Thermodynamics" skill to be on an Amarr ship. Whipping the slaves to make them work faster.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3 - 2014-09-13 14:51:04 UTC
If it makes you happier, imagine that the minute wage costs of the lifetime service of the crew are included in the purchase price — it's part of that whole brokerage/taxes rounding error you pay. P
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2014-09-13 14:52:18 UTC
I do pay my crew, just not in isk. I use whatever that peasant money is.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2014-09-13 15:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
My crew are convicts attempting to earn a pardon by working on my ships. I give them a crash course in starship maintence-repairs, seal them in, and all they have to do is survive 2 insurance cycles (note: few of my ships survive one).

If they try to tamper with my pod systems during flight then they activate the self destruct system... which is actually a dummy system put in place to distract them from the micro-bombs I implanted in their skulls during their physical... which explode 10 seconds after activation.
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
Dreamweb Industries
Novus Ordo.
#6 - 2014-09-13 16:02:48 UTC
Charax Bouclier wrote:
Another disturbing thing to consider is the zealotry of suicide gankers. The capsuleer is not at mortal risk, but these savages apparently have no qualms about sacrificing 80 non-capsuleers for a dubious cause.


Even NPCs understand the importance of saving highsec, which is yet another proof that the Code always wins. As for the survival rate...

Stat. Avg. Survivor Rate is a notional average value for crew members and passengers combined, based on typical ship-to-ship scenarios. In cases where a ship gets one-shotted by a Titan super-weapon, for instance, there would most likely be no survivors at all; however, if a ship is slowly whittled down through armor and hull before blowing up, we can assume that maybe 80% or even 90% of its crew would get away in escape pods. (Source: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines)

As all of our gankers are higly qualified professionals who have mastered the ganking and CONCORD manipulation techniques to absolute perfection, our brave and muscular crews know exactly when to abandon their posts and flee the vessel in their escape pods, with the ship's functions that are used last (locking, tracking, and firing) assigned solely to the capsuleer.

I can't say the same thing about the slothful and cowardly crew members of carebears' mining barges, though.

Agent of the New Order

Live by the Code - die by the Code.

The Voice of Highsec

Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-09-13 16:08:58 UTC
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:
I can't say the same thing about the slothful and cowardly crew members of carebears' mining barges, though.

Hey, don't bad-mouth the crew of mining barges. They're hard working, industrious folk. I mean, someone has to pick up the slack.
Ashlar Maidstone
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#8 - 2014-09-13 16:09:53 UTC
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:
[quote=Charax Bouclier]Another disturbing thing to consider is the zealotry of suicide gankers. The capsuleer is not at mortal risk, but these savages apparently have no qualms about sacrificing 80 non-capsuleers for a dubious cause.


Even NPCs understand the importance of saving highsec, which is yet another proof that the Code always wins. As for the survival rate...

Code "always wins"??? Seems to me you and your kind are soooooooo misguided by the truth that not even the "LIGHT" will save ya.

Sorry OP, trying to get this back on topic...
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
Dreamweb Industries
Novus Ordo.
#9 - 2014-09-13 16:21:00 UTC
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:
[quote=Charax Bouclier]Another disturbing thing to consider is the zealotry of suicide gankers. The capsuleer is not at mortal risk, but these savages apparently have no qualms about sacrificing 80 non-capsuleers for a dubious cause.


Even NPCs understand the importance of saving highsec, which is yet another proof that the Code always wins. As for the survival rate...

Code "always wins"??? Seems to me you and your kind are soooooooo misguided by the truth that not even the "LIGHT" will save ya.

Sorry OP, trying to get this back on topic...



Have I mentioned that the New Order crewmates also benchpress hundred kilos each?

Agent of the New Order

Live by the Code - die by the Code.

The Voice of Highsec

Charax Bouclier
Silvershield Universal
#10 - 2014-09-13 17:01:30 UTC
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:
[quote=Charax Bouclier]Another disturbing thing to consider is the zealotry of suicide gankers. The capsuleer is not at mortal risk, but these savages apparently have no qualms about sacrificing 80 non-capsuleers for a dubious cause.


Even NPCs understand the importance of saving highsec, which is yet another proof that the Code always wins. As for the survival rate...

Code "always wins"??? Seems to me you and your kind are soooooooo misguided by the truth that not even the "LIGHT" will save ya.

Sorry OP, trying to get this back on topic...


I enjoy CODE's RPish shtick, and their retort on this thread was satisfactory.

I do think it might be interesting to develop a crew mechanic - perhaps have crew racial bonuses, set up recruitment centers on particular planets, the latter might having certain +/-s, and humanoid crew members can increase their skill over time. Or, perhaps mechanical crew members could be a thing to craft of varying quality, but their skill doesn't increase. It may lead to some more decision making in-combat (give the abandon ship command to save a higher % of the crew for future use).

I like complexity and recruiting/managing your crew amongst your fleet of ships seems like a natural augmentation to this game.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#11 - 2014-09-13 17:10:00 UTC
This idea comes up from time to time.

People (myself included) tend not to like the idea because it just introduces more factors into ship balance... which is already a headache. It also increases the gap between older, wealthier players and younger, poorer players.

Basically, it adds complexity for complexity's sake rather than for a good gameplay reason. We can already RP that our crews are there (fun trivia: 15,000 ISK is enough to set up a non-capsuleer up for life... equivalent to a multi-millionaire in RL).
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#12 - 2014-09-13 17:37:23 UTC
One angle I've read is that ISK is worth so much to non-capsuleers that even grand rewards for the crew of their ships would not make a noticable impact on their wallets, so they actually get paid very well if they survive.

In which case they are basically just risking everything they have in hopes of a big payout. Given the very good chances of never seeing that payout, you gotta wonder what kind of people would sign up for that, but it's their choice so whatever I guess. This sounds weirdly familiar.

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thatonepersone
Black Jack 0-1
#13 - 2014-09-13 17:40:27 UTC
I think slaves should be part of the manufactureing cost.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#14 - 2014-09-13 17:59:53 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
In which case they are basically just risking everything they have in hopes of a big payout. Given the very good chances of never seeing that payout, you gotta wonder what kind of people would sign up for that, but it's their choice so whatever I guess. This sounds weirdly familiar.

*points to pretty much every dystopian game ever created*
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-09-13 18:07:34 UTC
i always keep spirits, tabbacco and dancers in the cargo. No crew revolt yet.
Charax Bouclier
Silvershield Universal
#16 - 2014-09-13 18:14:05 UTC
Rowells wrote:
i always keep spirits, tabbacco and dancers in the cargo. No crew revolt yet.


Hit me up if a position opens up on your ship.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-09-13 18:30:55 UTC
Careful with how this thread is proceeding - CCP might revise their game into a further ISK sink by requiring "teams" to be a part of your ship before you can undock.

Of course, each team will have its various perks and there will be huge E-Bay type bidding wars for the best teams, but after thirty days, they abandon ship and you would need to begin again...
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#18 - 2014-09-13 18:45:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Charax Bouclier wrote:
Rowells wrote:
i always keep spirits, tabbacco and dancers in the cargo. No crew revolt yet.


Hit me up if a position opens up on your ship.
Always keep exotic dancers in cargo, you never know when you'll need to jetcan a few as a sacrifice to Bob, the God of wormholes. I can supply you with some male ones if you like.

Bob may be the God of wormholes, but he happily accepts sacrifices in K-Space.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-09-13 18:48:34 UTC
All mundane things such as crew expenses, ship fuel, maintenance, docking rights, etc, are covered by CONCORD when you buy a plex or subscription.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#20 - 2014-09-13 19:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
Generally, you can imagine everytime you get some isk, a part of it is already substracted to payout yourcrew / technicians / employers / etc.

Also concerning ganking, it's fully within reason to expect a ship with the singular purpose to gank can run fully automated because it doesn't have to run any complicated maneuver or action (this was confirmed as viable RP towards ganking by CCP in another crew debate)
And if you really want your gank ship to be crewed, it's perfectly normal to assume that the moment your ship opens fire, the crew is already on the way to the escape-pods assuring a 100% survival rate & ready to board your next ganker ship -> look at that! You get an experienced crew, serving multiple ships with no risk involved!

Also Eve is a dark, cold & harsh universe with a high degree of poverty / unemployment / low wages. This makes serving aboard Capsuleer ships attractive despite the high risk.
High value reward for high risk never stopped humans, see the various gold rushes & other searches for valuables.

Edit: here is a link to the crew guideline discussion in the Fiction Forum (warning, text!)

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

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