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Interceptors
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Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2014-09-13 00:24:30 UTC
Faren Shalni wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Maledictions are over-powered.

tackle range bonus
armor resist (tank)
missile RoF (DPS)
and missiles are a long range weapon that you don't have to care about transversal

along with all the standard tackle activation bonus, sig bonus, bubble immunity, and fast locking, speed, agility.


For Tech2 ships being "specialized", the Malediction gets a wide range of bonuses, a large effective range for its weapons, and damage selection.


The Mal gets the same number of bonus's as the rest of them however the Armour bonus is unique to it. ( the rest get damage or application bonus's)



Except my Mal does the same damage out to 27km that my Stiletto does 1km. Yah, same sort of bonuses, on weapons with entirely different base stats.


The Crow and Malediction aren't so popular because they look pretty. It is because they will do the damage of the turret based Interceptors at a much greater range and without having to care about transversal.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#82 - 2014-09-13 02:22:16 UTC
1: Chew paper until spitwad is created.
2: Load spitwad into straw.
3: Place straw into mouth and aim at interceptor.
4: Blow.
5: Did you hit?
5a) If no, learn to aim properly.
5b) If yes, proceed to 6.
6: Collect interceptor killmail.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#83 - 2014-09-13 07:22:19 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:

The Crow and Malediction aren't so popular because they look pretty. It is because they will do the damage of the turret based Interceptors at a much greater range and without having to care about transversal.


And in exchange they cannot web or scram the targets so the targets can still MWD around and potentially force the ceptors to follow instead of orbiting; or targets can MJD away or targets can slingshot them and get them into scram/web/neut range.

Something else you want to pick up? Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2014-09-13 07:49:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugia3
Lugia3 wrote:
And if you're in a longpoint interceptor and die one on one to a drone boat... you should be laughed at and hit with an oar. No drone boats in the game can keep up with the Crow or Malediction, meaning if you for some reason CAN'T outrun or outright kill their drones, you can leave.

The Dragoon's three flights of HP and damage bonused 7.88km/sec Warrior II's would like to say "hi" as they catch and gun down any interceptor you care to name. Oh the inty can was forced to leave? I guess he was countered then.[/quote]

Linked and snaked nano Crow or Garmur can go over 8 km/s.

You say he was countered if he was forced to leave. It's too bad everything else that gets kited down by inties doesn't have the same option.

[EDIT: Apparently butchered this post somehow, too lazy to fix.]

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Savesti Kyrsst
All Cats Are Beautiful
#85 - 2014-09-13 08:50:49 UTC
Not going to comment on bubble immunity as I live in Low, but the Crusader definitely needs a look whatever happens.

It's vastly outperformed as a turret frig by the Navy Slicer, and vastly as an interceptor by every other interceptor that has more than two mids. If it's going to stay with two mids it needs to be better at something than the Slicer.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2014-09-13 10:43:45 UTC
I find it kinda ridicolous why the Taranis got a drone bay when it's an interceptor... I know Gallente are drones and all, but come on.
Nienna Leralonde
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2014-09-13 11:26:01 UTC
yeah,why the hell not trash interceptors completly,its not like all t1 frigs are better than intys anyway.
CaptainKaos
Ministry of Trade
#88 - 2014-09-13 11:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: CaptainKaos
Dudes Hello...

I have been holding this post off for sometime as its something I feel strongly about but also wanted to see how well ceptors did in there current state. As you can tell from this post me and a lot of other pvpers are not very happy with the out come of ceptors and how they have changed the 0.0 landscape.

Interceptors are sadly breaking the game for a lot of solid pvp groups that like to fly in HACs, Recons and other not very cheap stuff. Often these people are old vets that have been playing Eve for years. Eve has lost its epic small gang and solo aspect in 0.0 and that is down to interceptors and is very worrying as small gang pvpers and soloers are the core of eve. even in huge alliances the corps that do well are the ones that do a lot of solo and small gang stuff along side the larger fleets. almost all the people I have talked to really dislike the changes that have been made on ceptors ( I have talked to people in TRI, B2K, BL,-A-, Exodus & a lot of solo pvpers.

Things I think CCP could do to help out solo/small gang pvp people that wants to fly in 0.0 with shiny ships

Remove interceptor bubble immunity. This will make it harder but not impossible to move 50 man fleets of interceptors around and bring back the fleet welps with smartbombs (giving ceptors something to think about).

They need less tinfoil and more paper! idk something a long the lines of bigger sig or less EHP

Also ceptors put out to much dps if we are going to have 50 / 100 man gangs of them around its just silly...

Things CCP have fixed. captor warp speed and speeds are very nice, they are a keeper

Things I don't see any more. soloers; talos, cyna, vaga, SFI Or small gang fleets of HACs and alike. (This truly is a crying shame for eve)

My point is, This kind of pvp the shiny small gang pvp is dying its a bit like giving eve heart disease. The fact of the matter is high value, high dps, high speed, small numbers & an epic FC is the most fun eve has to offer and that kind of fun you don't get in other games or other kinds of activities in eve.
Taking on a 60 man gang with 10 dudes and not losing a ship, killing over half of them that's the most fun in pvp. There will be people that disagree with me and others that agree the ones that agree will be players with experience in pvp and there others that disagree will people that have limited pvp XP and likely only ever done blob wars, lag fests, and other skill-less mindless activities so its no wonder they like to fly ceptors. small gang / solo in 0.0 is part of the eve web it breaks and the hole structure fails apart


Kind Regards
Kaos
Koral Eden
Brown Coats Unite
#89 - 2014-09-13 13:07:16 UTC
That is some sound logic.Roll Nerf the costly paper plane fits, because players are flying around in gangs. The ships or at least my Crow lack any survivability. I have perfect missile skills on my other toon and I am getting somewhere around 100-115dps on my fit with 4000m/s cold. They are not especially effective as a solo pilot. Half the time if you do catch someone a fleet warps in well before you can kill them. If your fleeting and not prepared for encountering them, well that is just poor planning or wishful thinking. Now if you catch an AFB or Brawl fit frig in a FW Plex god help them for entering on an Inty. These ships run the risk of if they catch you, you will die. Most of the complaints I hear are about the Nullifier. So the real problem people have is their easy mode or gate camps as they are called aren't quite effective on them. How horrible for you it must be that there are 2 ship hauls in the entire game that can warp out of your bubbles.
Heat-seeking Moisture Missile
Deep Thought Labs
#90 - 2014-09-13 14:07:50 UTC
Commence crazy idea. . . . . . . .


In my mind being immune to bubbles it a T3 ability. Interceptors having them isn't necessarily OP. But have DPS, Scram bonus and bubble immunity is a bit OP.

It's almost like cepters need 1 (small) t3 subsytem slot. There'd be only 2 option for it. Scram range bonus (Immobility Driver subsystem) or Bubble immunity (Interdiction Nullifier subsystem). You have to pick one or the other. Ceptors would become a T2/T3 hybrid ship.

And of course make this a frigate class subsystem with much lower build costs.


idk - might work
Shocked
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#91 - 2014-09-13 15:09:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemun Khanid
All I hear are a lot of tears about not being able to catch interceptors... that's kinda the point so get over it. As for them being overpowered in other ways you apparently haven't taken a look at faction frigs. I can't speak for null sec but in FW interceptors are a rare sight. And the posts about "interceptors destroying nullsec" seem more than a little exaggerated. There are easy counters if you care enough try. Other than nullsec moaning just compare a crusader and a slicer's stats side by side, it's a sad sight with the slicer costing half as much. Faction frigs do more dps, with more ehp and typically better slot configurations. The same can be said for faction cruisers. They simply outclass T2 cruisers. Compare the usefulness of a zealot to a nomen. (i'm only talking amarr ships here, I dont have experience with other factions but amarr T2 ships are essetially crap) Yes they have bubble immunity, who cares. There aren't any bubbles in FW and FW zones see more frigate combat than any other region = wasted bonus IMO. Couldn't care less about what happens to other factions but the Crusader needs a buff NOT a nerf.

Daemun of Khanid
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#92 - 2014-09-13 15:55:09 UTC
Heat-seeking Moisture Missile wrote:
Commence crazy idea. . . . . . . .Shocked


I hope you do realize that only 4 out of 8 ceptors have a warp disruptor/scrambler bonus.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Heat-seeking Moisture Missile
Deep Thought Labs
#93 - 2014-09-13 16:01:46 UTC
No not really.... work it all out with a rebalance Big smile
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#94 - 2014-09-13 16:05:36 UTC
And I also hope you do realize that the point range is not exactly the problem for the most moaned about Crow. In a Crow fleet fight you usually hammer your target from 40-60km away. Which, as stated by me before, makes the Crow simply an expensive Talwar or Corax with fancyy speed. Reduce the range of the Crow down to Malediction range and everything is good.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#95 - 2014-09-13 16:38:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Saisin
Belen Shields wrote:
Raise the Align time by 300-400ms of an Interceptor or introduce T2 Warp disruption Probes which can prevent Intys from warping.

1. A Dictor is useless against an Interceptor while the Destroyerclass always was the hard counter to most Frig hulls.
2. An Interceptor is not pointable right now if fitted correctly. It's not possible, even with a 4500mm scan res Hyena.

Nowaday the pvp in Null comes down to that occasional 10man Fleet which gets stomped by like 50 other dudes and the 6 dozen uncatchable Interceptors which are roaming your Space because of the above stated missbehaviours. Bubble immunity paired with the fast aligntime is ruining smallscale pvp right now.


Best suggestion I have read for tweaking the interceptors, with the small caveat that inties should only be immune to tech 1 bubbles (I.e. Any kind of T2 warp disruption field should catch them)

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#96 - 2014-09-13 16:47:33 UTC
Saisin wrote:
Belen Shields wrote:
Raise the Align time by 300-400ms of an Interceptor or introduce T2 Warp disruption Probes which can prevent Intys from warping.

1. A Dictor is useless against an Interceptor while the Destroyerclass always was the hard counter to most Frig hulls.
2. An Interceptor is not pointable right now if fitted correctly. It's not possible, even with a 4500mm scan res Hyena.

Nowaday the pvp in Null comes down to that occasional 10man Fleet which gets stomped by like 50 other dudes and the 6 dozen uncatchable Interceptors which are roaming your Space because of the above stated missbehaviours. Bubble immunity paired with the fast aligntime is ruining smallscale pvp right now.


Best suggestion I have read for tweaking the interceptors, with the small caveat that inties should only be immune to tech 1 bubbles (I.e. Any kind of T2 warp disruption field should catch them)


No one would use T1 bubbles ever again. And if they stop Inties, they also stop T3, which means that we could remove bubble immunity completely, which is not a good thing. And don't forget cloak, they are also so hard to catch. Roll

@Belen ... again...

Not bubble immunity and Interceptors are ruining your small fleet PVP, it's the stated misbehavior of the players. Players have become too thick and cowardly to take on a real fight and instead they just blob the good fight away and call it "gudfites". Oh, and I do think that denying "good fights" for CFC players and making their life in EVE a as miserable as possible experience is a good thing for the game. Blink

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#97 - 2014-09-13 16:58:07 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Saisin wrote:
Belen Shields wrote:
Raise the Align time by 300-400ms of an Interceptor or introduce T2 Warp disruption Probes which can prevent Intys from warping.

1. A Dictor is useless against an Interceptor while the Destroyerclass always was the hard counter to most Frig hulls.
2. An Interceptor is not pointable right now if fitted correctly. It's not possible, even with a 4500mm scan res Hyena.

Nowaday the pvp in Null comes down to that occasional 10man Fleet which gets stomped by like 50 other dudes and the 6 dozen uncatchable Interceptors which are roaming your Space because of the above stated missbehaviours. Bubble immunity paired with the fast aligntime is ruining smallscale pvp right now.


Best suggestion I have read for tweaking the interceptors, with the small caveat that inties should only be immune to tech 1 bubbles (I.e. Any kind of T2 warp disruption field should catch them)


No one would use T1 bubbles ever again. And if they stop Inties, they also stop T3, which means that we could remove bubble immunity completely, which is not a good thing. And don't forget cloak, they are also so hard to catch. Roll
...



it would only concern interceptors, so T3 with nullification sub system would still be immune to bubbles, T1 or T2

T2 fields are more expensive, requires higher set of skills, and in any case an inty in a T2 bubble can still get out of it really quickly or burn back to gate in no time either, unless there is an active fleet around it, which they can easily scout out.. It would merely slow them down and force them to think more rather than aligning to next gate and hitting jump without even needing to worry about anything as they are now.

Your argument about t2 being the only one used does not hold water . t1 stuff is still used even if they have a more powerful T2 counterpart... This would be no different with t2 WD fields....


Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Zarodia Mainyu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2014-09-13 17:00:40 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
No one would use T1 bubbles ever again. And if they stop Inties, they also stop T3, which means that we could remove bubble immunity completely, which is not a good thing. And don't forget cloak, they are also so hard to catch. Roll


+1

poor gate campers, they can't loot the shiny cargo of ceptor...

To my mind, it s a very specialized frig, used for catch targets quickly... if they're caught in bubble, how can they catch targets ?
Shank Ronuken
TURN LEFT
#99 - 2014-09-13 17:05:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Shank Ronuken
Fleet Interceptors do **** dps and are killed quite easily in gang/fleet engagements...

Combat interceptors do okay dps and are much slower, have low ehp and require proper piloting to be successful...

For Interceptors, nulification is a must in nullsec warfare for catching targets on the run; and for being more useful than burning warp-ins for the rest of your fleet since the tackle role is generally filled by recons/T3's.

A mild nerf to sig radius and align time are all that's needed in my opinion:


Before the buff it essentially took sebo/remote sebos to lock and catch them unless caught in a bubble; due to their speed and sig they can burn out of the bubble and warp faster than larger ships can lock them, and move fast enough to be out of range for other frigates to tackle (scram) them.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#100 - 2014-09-13 17:45:00 UTC
Saisin wrote:

it would only concern interceptors, so T3 with nullification sub system would still be immune to bubbles, T1 or T2

T2 fields are more expensive, requires higher set of skills, and in any case an inty in a T2 bubble can still get out of it really quickly or burn back to gate in no time either, unless there is an active fleet around it, which they can easily scout out.. It would merely slow them down and force them to think more rather than aligning to next gate and hitting jump without even needing to worry about anything as they are now.

Your argument about t2 being the only one used does not hold water . t1 stuff is still used even if they have a more powerful T2 counterpart... This would be no different with t2 WD fields....


It would not, because Nullification is Nullification. If 1 Nullified ship is not immune to bubbles, it makes no sense that other nullified ships keep that. They both employ the same principle. And while it's just a switch of an attribute, it still makes no sense why the same principle works on 1 ship, but not the other. Blink

Ceptors are also easy to catch on gates when they burn with insta-locking ships that web them down to 0 m/s. And if they manage to jump, they will be bubbled on the other side of the gate again, and webbed again. And killed. That works already today.

Propulsion Jamming V (Warp Disrupt Field Gen II) takes 29 days to train, considering 6 weeks of advance notice for such a change, I don't see how people would not train for that or could train that to T2 level within days. Not to mention that most Dictor/Hictor pilots already have that trained. Moreover, money is not a problem in this game. At all.

T1 items are only used in very narrow circumstance, which are either fitting limitations (Meta 4 DCU, anyone?) or skill limitations (Meta 4 guns, anyone?) or because T2 items are worse or don't offer enough to no benefits. These bubbles, however, offer an enormous benefit over T1 as they can catch/stop/drag everything in the game and there is no point in using T1 warp probes anymore, because nothing would change in a world where you want to stop ceptors and other nullified ships.

So, while I don't need to hold water, I hold my ground with logic.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.