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Interceptors
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Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2014-09-12 19:06:21 UTC
I like the idea of splitting the Interceptors into one with DPS/tank and one with the bubble immunity.


Right now, since they all get the same basic Interceptor bonuses, people just use the Crow and Maladiction because they get weapons bonuses on longer range weapons along with all the Interceptor goodness.


Make it so each race gets a sturdy damage dealing Interceptor, and a bubble immune version that is only good for landing tackle. It is sort of broken in that the Interceptor is supposed to be like a scout who goes in and lands a tackle and calls in the cavalry, but instead the Interceptors are also the cavalry.
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-09-12 19:12:22 UTC
Belen Shields wrote:
Faren Shalni wrote:
If you are com plaining about inties always being the ships that get the tackle on ratter/targets then well THAT IS WHAT ITS DESIGNED TO DO

There are lots of counters to interceptors:

Warrior II's (hell even Acolyte II's murder them)
RLML's
Combat Inties
A Scram
Webs
AF's
Dessies
Dictors (yes these murder Inties)
EAF's
t1 frigs
Pirate Frigs
Navy Frigs
Smartbombs
neuts
Recons
And the Big one

BETTER PILOTING!!!!!



You're assuming that the Inty is long enough on grid to get a lock on it .... your argument is just wrong. I'm not whining about any AFK Kills but you're whining about your cheap-as-shirt-ship which can get you shiny killmails without getting into the danger of loosing it. If you land in a gatecamp, all you have to do is to hit the warp-to button, wave to the gatecamp and spam the local with "Ceeya Nerds".
Oh and writing with capslock does not intensify your argument. It just makes reading your Post harder. JFYI


The "Shiny" kills you refer to are usually carriers as they dont have a disengage like BS's and smaller have (and even if its a BS thats killed sorry but thats just the BS pilot being Bad)

Carriers can kill interceptors with warriors and acolytes (hobs are too slow) ore even, in the case of a solo inty getting point, refit off a Depot for a warp stab (the inty cant kill the depot fast enough) But more importantly: Why are you in a Carrier Unsupported?

Again i do agree that the Inty warping from gates is a little too much however in an interceptor seconds count. the longer i am spending in warp or aligning is more time for the target (i still have to find) to get away.

Im sorry if this aint you view but there are too many nullbears who dont like the fact I can warp a frig to their site out of 20 others and tackle their carrier before they can align and warp off,

So Much Space
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-09-12 19:22:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Faren Shalni
Belen Shields wrote:
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:

See... funny thing. I did that in a Crow and right when I started to wave was when they popped me. I guess it's different since they were actually putting forth effort...
Later on they ran from our fleet and waited for a few dozen of their closest friends to show up so they could have a fair 2-v-1 fight, but that's a different matter entirely. The point is that, while I was not in a maxed out Crow, if inty's were so horribly broken then how did I get away when my cloak only dropped after I hit Warp To? Or is the effort required to catch one that you object to?


Here's an example of a "waving"fit for a crow :

[Crow, "Ceeya Nerds" Edition]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Inertia Stabilizers II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Warp Disruptor II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Light Missile

Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I

Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Belen Shields wrote:
1. A Dictor is useless against an Interceptor while the Destroyerclass always was the hard counter to most Frig hulls.

Hardly. An interdictor will shred an interceptor that is dumb enough to stick around. Just because you didn't kill him doesn't mean you didn't counter him.

Belen Shields wrote:
2. An Interceptor is not pointable right now if fitted correctly. It's not possible, even with a 4500mm scan res Hyena.

An interceptor fitted this way is almost useless in combat. It is little more than a shuttle.


I've seen pilots multiboxing several Intys so you still have the problem that it can't be catched on a stargate so DPS ist just a matter of how many clients you can run. I am also assuming a scenario of a gatecamp. If the scenario moves from a gate to lets say a Planet and the Inty is out of Webrange, the Inty wins against sabre and an eris easily and might loose to a Heretic or Flycatcher and here comes the if, if he stays on grid without warping off as the Inty point outranges the dictor one's.


So your trying to say because you can kite me and stay out of my effective range (as I need to web you to shoot you) and disengage because you only pointed you are OP and therefore should not be able to do that........

So recons are OP, T3's are OP, Bhargests/Orthrus/Garmur are OP, Cynabals, Vagabonds, Munnins, Condors, Cormorants, Slicers, Sentinels, Jag's, Wolf's, Coercers, Deimos's, Thorax's AND a whole other list of ships that can kite and disengage when needed to Because (this is the point) They are fitted to do so are now officially declared by you to be OP and therefore needing to be nerfed so they cant out pilot you

EDIT: I will also add that the INTY is using a Long point not a scram, so therefore yopu can disengage as much as he can, its just a tad harder.

So Much Space
Belen Shields
Iskender Kebap Corp
#44 - 2014-09-12 19:28:41 UTC
Faren Shalni wrote:


The "Shiny" kills you refer to are usually carriers as they dont have a disengage like BS's and smaller have (and even if its a BS thats killed sorry but thats just the BS pilot being Bad)

Carriers can kill interceptors with warriors and acolytes (hobs are too slow) ore even, in the case of a solo inty getting point, refit off a Depot for a warp stab (the inty cant kill the depot fast enough) But more importantly: Why are you in a Carrier Unsupported?

Again i do agree that the Inty warping from gates is a little too much however in an interceptor seconds count. the longer i am spending in warp or aligning is more time for the target (i still have to find) to get away.

Im sorry if this aint you view but there are too many nullbears who dont like the fact I can warp a frig to their site out of 20 others and tackle their carrier before they can align and warp off,


I like explosions myself, don't get me wrong! It's fine if you can get cheap kills like carriers or whatever capital is ratting/minging, but the way Null smallscale has changed is unacceptable. 90% of Smallscale pvp is done by under 1% of Ships avaiable in EVE. Just open your Intel and count how many maledictions and crows get reported during EU or US prime..... and you can't catch them. Smallscale isn't happening except for those real pvp'ers who are willing to loose stuff. Intys are just farming AFK-Ratters, nothing more while smallscale is not existing.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#45 - 2014-09-12 19:28:44 UTC
Quote:

So recons are OP, T3's are OP, Bhargests/Orthrus/Garmur are OP, Cynabals, Vagabonds, Munnins, Condors, Cormorants, Slicers, Sentinels, Jag's, Wolf's, Coercers, Deimos's, Thorax's AND a whole other list of ships that can kite and disengage when needed to Because (this is the point) They are fitted to do so are now officially declared by you to be OP and therefore needing to be nerfed so they cant out pilot you

It's only OP if the OP dies to it. That's the way these kinds of posts go, and I'm sorry to say that I fell into the troll-trap this time around.
Of course, I could just argue that gate camps are OP and need nerfing because one time, at band camp.... Roll
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-09-12 19:33:31 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Wow. You would almost think that weren't some mid or high slot modules which completely ignore transversal that can totally shut down an inty. Or ships slightly larger than inties that could send super fast drones after them.


Only a battleship or curse can carry these "high slot modules which completely ignore transversal that can totally shut down an inty", aka heavy neuts. Any inty pilot with a few brain cells is going to stay way outside of the 12.6km range medium neuts have.

And if you're in a longpoint interceptor and die one on one to a drone boat... you should be laughed at and hit with an oar. No drone boats in the game can keep up with the Crow or Malediction, meaning if you for some reason CAN'T outrun or outright kill their drones, you can leave.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2014-09-12 19:36:20 UTC
Belen Shields wrote:
Faren Shalni wrote:


The "Shiny" kills you refer to are usually carriers as they dont have a disengage like BS's and smaller have (and even if its a BS thats killed sorry but thats just the BS pilot being Bad)

Carriers can kill interceptors with warriors and acolytes (hobs are too slow) ore even, in the case of a solo inty getting point, refit off a Depot for a warp stab (the inty cant kill the depot fast enough) But more importantly: Why are you in a Carrier Unsupported?

Again i do agree that the Inty warping from gates is a little too much however in an interceptor seconds count. the longer i am spending in warp or aligning is more time for the target (i still have to find) to get away.

Im sorry if this aint you view but there are too many nullbears who dont like the fact I can warp a frig to their site out of 20 others and tackle their carrier before they can align and warp off,


I like explosions myself, don't get me wrong! It's fine if you can get cheap kills like carriers or whatever capital is ratting/minging, but the way Null smallscale has changed is unacceptable. 90% of Smallscale pvp is done by under 1% of Ships avaiable in EVE. Just open your Intel and count how many maledictions and crows get reported during EU or US prime..... and you can't catch them. Smallscale isn't happening except for those real pvp'ers who are willing to loose stuff. Intys are just farming AFK-Ratters, nothing more while smallscale is not existing.


Intys are used to hunt in null because of the amount of bubble's and Intel channels. In a inty you can cover a large are faster than other ships (Hey isnt that is job) you can also get to the target quickly and have a reasonable survival chance.

I use interceptors because the moment I jump into local everyone is already running. and there are many times I land ongrid as a carrier warps off because I had to do a 40 au warp instead of a 35au warp. when hunting seconds count, and one server tick is the difference between a kill or a miss

So Much Space
Belen Shields
Iskender Kebap Corp
#48 - 2014-09-12 19:37:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Belen Shields
Faren Shalni wrote:


So your trying to say because you can kite me and stay out of my effective range (as I need to web you to shoot you) and disengage because you only pointed you are OP and therefore should not be able to do that........

So recons are OP, T3's are OP, Bhargests/Orthrus/Garmur are OP, Cynabals, Vagabonds, Munnins, Condors, Cormorants, Slicers, Sentinels, Jag's, Wolf's, Coercers, Deimos's, Thorax's AND a whole other list of ships that can kite and disengage when needed to Because (this is the point) They are fitted to do so are now officially declared by you to be OP and therefore needing to be nerfed so they cant out pilot you

EDIT: I will also add that the INTY is using a Long point not a scram, so therefore yopu can disengage as much as he can, its just a tad harder.


I didn't say either that Kiting is illegitimate nor what you stated above my friend. It just sounds like you want to outline that you are the better pvper than me by turning my arguments into ridicule.

BTW I don't expect CCP to make any big changes to Intys, maybe a small increase of align time to some specific Intys (namely malediction and Crow) will do the trick. Oh and new Ingame-models for Dictors to round it up.

Faren Shalni wrote:


Intys are used to hunt in null because of the amount of bubble's and Intel channels. In a inty you can cover a large are faster than other ships (Hey isnt that is job) you can also get to the target quickly and have a reasonable survival chance.

I use interceptors because the moment I jump into local everyone is already running. and there are many times I land ongrid as a carrier warps off because I had to do a 40 au warp instead of a 35au warp. when hunting seconds count, and one server tick is the difference between a kill or a miss


Some Intys are broken right now and that has come to CCP's attention. I didn't say "Ceptors are a bad thing", I said that the synergy of their fast align time and bubble immunity made them an uncatchable one-trick-pony.
Ama Atavuli
Rolled Out
#49 - 2014-09-12 19:51:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ama Atavuli
Interceptors are exactly where they need to be. If you split them into dps or nullified, then it's pointless to ever use the dps versions as opposed to an AF.

Interceptors are countered by literally any ship with a scram. Non-combat ceptors can barely kill anything without multiple ceptors, or as is intended, assistance. And combat interceptors are easily countered by assault frigates.

The only way an interceptor can stay on grid risk-free is to be combat ineffective and unable to point. If you are within crow LML range of a target you are susceptible to other frigates coming after you.

MJDs have further balanced interceptors in that if you decide to stay safe and longpoint a battleship/battlecruiser you risk them MJDing away, assuming they are fully aligned when they do this they can instantly warp as soon as the MJD ends.

Catching ratting carriers in interceptors is extremely difficult and generally only achieved by the carrier making a mistake. For example a ratting carrier not having light drones, not having a neut, or a falcon buddy. If the carrier pilot has any of these things an interceptor pilot is rendered completely ineffective.

A single flight of light drones with 1 drone navigation computer makes warriors go 8.1km/s, faster than most skirmish linked interceptors. Even if you are faster than warriors, unless it is by a great deal (10km/s or so, not realistic for ceptors) you will be caught unless you are going in a straight line and hence, unable to maintain point. Light drones are so much more agile than an interceptor that even if their total velocity is lower, their orbit velocity is higher, so if the inty is orbiting he will most likely be caught.

The popular trend of afktars is even harder on ceptors as generally an ishtar will have a drone nav comp and light drones of some sort.

Any sort of neut immediately hurts interceptors because it requires above average skills to maintain cap stability with your propmod and point(s) on (even with the point cap usage decrease). As soon as your propmod shuts off any drones after you catch up and your transversal drops.

Inties are even more vulnerable in massive nullsec fights. You basically have to stay off grid because someone will always come after you or cheeky members of the enemy fleet will shoot at you, or logi will send light drones after you, or you'll get target painted scrammed and 50 ishtars decide you are the next prime.

And none of this even mentions RLML cerbs or caracals.

Interceptors are easily countered by anyone interested in countering them, they take advantage of complacency and laziness, but are vulnerable to awareness and defensiveness.
Belen Shields
Iskender Kebap Corp
#50 - 2014-09-12 20:00:57 UTC
Ama Atavuli wrote:

Interceptors are easily countered by anyone interested in countering them, they take advantage of complacency and laziness, but are vulnerable to awareness and defensiveness.


The role of an Interceptor is to intercept and to tackle. What do you expect of a 20 mil hull?? It's not killing ratters, it's not killing ratting caps. But that is what they are used for 95% of the time. I don't rat afk, I prefer the active ratting aspect of eve. But what I would like to see is a ship that is not broken by exploiting latency physics and server ACK/ARP times.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#51 - 2014-09-12 20:04:06 UTC
Ama Atavuli wrote:
Interceptors are exactly where they need to be. If you split them into dps or nullified, then it's pointless to ever use the dps versions as opposed to an AF.

Interceptors are countered by literally any ship with a scram. Non-combat ceptors can barely kill anything without multiple ceptors, or as is intended, assistance. And combat interceptors are easily countered by assault frigates.

The only way an interceptor can stay on grid risk-free is to be combat ineffective and unable to point. If you are within crow LML range of a target you are susceptible to other frigates coming after you.

MJDs have further balanced interceptors in that if you decide to stay safe and longpoint a battleship/battlecruiser you risk them MJDing away, assuming they are fully aligned when they do this they can instantly warp as soon as the MJD ends.

Catching ratting carriers in interceptors is extremely difficult and generally only achieved by the carrier making a mistake. For example a ratting carrier not having light drones, not having a neut, or a falcon buddy. If the carrier pilot has any of these things an interceptor pilot is rendered completely ineffective.

A single flight of light drones with 1 drone navigation computer makes warriors go 8.1km/s, faster than most skirmish linked interceptors. Even if you are faster than warriors, unless it is by a great deal (10km/s or so, not realistic for ceptors) you will be caught unless you are going in a straight line and hence, unable to maintain point. Light drones are so much more agile than an interceptor that even if their total velocity is lower, their orbit velocity is higher, so if the inty is orbiting he will most likely be caught.

The popular trend of afktars is even harder on ceptors as generally an ishtar will have a drone nav comp and light drones of some sort.

Any sort of neut immediately hurts interceptors because it requires above average skills to maintain cap stability with your propmod and point(s) on (even with the point cap usage decrease). As soon as your propmod shuts off any drones after you catch up and your transversal drops.

Inties are even more vulnerable in massive nullsec fights. You basically have to stay off grid because someone will always come after you or cheeky members of the enemy fleet will shoot at you, or logi will send light drones after you, or you'll get target painted scrammed and 50 ishtars decide you are the next prime.

And none of this even mentions RLML cerbs or caracals.

Interceptors are easily countered by anyone interested in countering them, they take advantage of complacency and laziness, but are vulnerable to awareness and defensiveness.

This guy ^ knows. He's lost sacrificed a few inties.

I'm right behind you
Gilda45
Order of Nephilim
#52 - 2014-09-12 20:05:25 UTC
I think it's fair enough to say that the combination of nullified/dps/long point can be too much. I like the idea of splitting them into dps/scram tackle and a nullified/disruptor tackle. Of course this puts the former into the AF category unless you keep the tank low and keep it's warp speed intact along with the ability to run stable with a mwd.

Or maybe, like what I think some previous posters were hinting at, is having to make the choice of two of the three: nullified/dps/ long point.

In no way do I think we should completely eliminate nullified inties.
Ama Atavuli
Rolled Out
#53 - 2014-09-12 20:09:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ama Atavuli
Belen Shields wrote:
Ama Atavuli wrote:

Interceptors are easily countered by anyone interested in countering them, they take advantage of complacency and laziness, but are vulnerable to awareness and defensiveness.


The role of an Interceptor is to intercept and to tackle. What do you expect of a 20 mil hull?? It's not killing ratters, it's not killing ratting caps. But that is what they are used for 95% of the time. I don't rat afk, I prefer the active ratting aspect of eve. But what I would like to see is a ship that is not broken by exploiting latency physics and server ACK/ARP times.



That is what intercepting and tackling is bro, it's catching ratters, catching people who are sleeping/botting/afk. Interceptors are also hugely common in pvp fleets as scouts, in fact there is no other ship in the game as specialized for fleet scouting as an interceptor. I don't see your point, if your point is they are too cheap, well, I say they are cheap because they die so much, and the market responds to high demand with high supply.

They already nerfed ceptors agility. Many of them (including the crow/raptor) can be caught by a ship with 5k or greater scan res. I have been killed 3 times by a multiboxer in Kalevala who assists warriors off pure dps fit tristans to an insta slasher. Not to mention oodells smartbombing moas in deklein.

I wonder how much time you've spent scouting for fleets or tackling in interceptors...

Jump through gate, initiate warp, this happens
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#54 - 2014-09-12 20:51:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
I think that 'Ceptors are in a good place as a whole. They have clearly defined roles, bonuses that are in line with those roles, and abundant counters. They are also an absolute blast to fly. The only thing I see 'ceptors needing is an internal re-balancing.

1. Fix the Craptor. It's always been bad. No need to overpower it, but it shouldn't be rendered obsolete by the Taranis. Or every other 'ceptor for that matter.

2. Balance the "Fleet" 'ceptors relative to each other. While I don't think that the Crow and Malediction are out of balance relative to other ships*, they do a fine job making the Stiletto and Ares remarkably underwhelming.

3. One thing that I could consider interesting, but hardly necessary, would be to give the "Combat" 'ceptors a range bonus to Warp Sramblers only. Instead of forcing them to be brawlers, this would give them the option to be specialist scram-kiters without interfering with the role of the "Fleet" 'ceptors. EDIT: And perhaps to go along with this, make the "Fleet" 'ceptor's bonus only apply to Warp Disruptors so they have less utility as scram-kiters.

Just my thoughts.


*They are incredibly popular and very common on killboards because they are arguably the best ships in the game at target selection. But over-representation doesn't equal overpowered. When your corp/alliance is a stickler for KB efficiency, the ability to GTFO at will to avoid a loss is a powerful motivator.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2014-09-12 20:54:31 UTC
Belen Shields wrote:
I've seen pilots multiboxing several Intys so you still have the problem that it can't be catched on a stargate so DPS ist just a matter of how many clients you can run. I am also assuming a scenario of a gatecamp. If the scenario moves from a gate to lets say a Planet and the Inty is out of Webrange, the Inty wins against sabre and an eris easily and might loose to a Heretic or Flycatcher and here comes the if, if he stays on grid without warping off as the Inty point outranges the dictor one's.

If they are in a gang then you shouldn't expect to beat them without one of your own. If they are fit for travel then they aren't a threat to anyone anyway. Also the fact that an inty, if flown smartly, can beat an interdictor in certain situations is fine. Nothing is ever a hard counter to anything else.

You are also totally ignoring Minmatar and Galente recon cruisers with their long range webs and scrams. Nevermind the super fast drones from the Dragoon and Algos or the long range neuts of the Curse. And then of course there is ECM and damps, both of which cripple any interceptor.

There are plenty of ways to kill inties. You just have to use your brain.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2014-09-12 20:56:20 UTC
Belen Shields wrote:
The role of an Interceptor is to intercept and to tackle. What do you expect of a 20 mil hull?? It's not killing ratters, it's not killing ratting caps.

Actually, this is exactly what I would expect from a class designed to quickly pin down targets. They are supposed to be good at this. Its the reason they exist.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2014-09-12 21:02:43 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
Only a battleship or curse can carry these "high slot modules which completely ignore transversal that can totally shut down an inty", aka heavy neuts. Any inty pilot with a few brain cells is going to stay way outside of the 12.6km range medium neuts have.

I would like to introduce you to mid slot ECM and sensor dampers. Any ship can fit them and they work wonderfully against interceptors. To be fair ECM does need a specialized hull to be really effective. However damps work great on any hull.

Lugia3 wrote:
And if you're in a longpoint interceptor and die one on one to a drone boat... you should be laughed at and hit with an oar. No drone boats in the game can keep up with the Crow or Malediction, meaning if you for some reason CAN'T outrun or outright kill their drones, you can leave.

The Dragoon's three flights of HP and damage bonused 7.88km/sec Warrior II's would like to say "hi" as they catch and gun down any interceptor you care to name. Oh the inty can was forced to leave? I guess he was countered then.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2014-09-12 21:08:05 UTC
Belen Shields wrote:
Some Intys are broken right now and that has come to CCP's attention. I didn't say "Ceptors are a bad thing", I said that the synergy of their fast align time and bubble immunity made them an uncatchable one-trick-pony.

Half of this statement is correct. The Raptor and Crusader need a buff. The other half is just unfounded tears. Tasty ones at that.
Immortal Chrono Pimpin
Codename-47
Avocado Cartel
#59 - 2014-09-12 21:10:16 UTC
op just upset that i can move all my lp goodies through his resebod gatecamp with the only risk being smartbombs.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2014-09-12 21:12:57 UTC
Belen Shields wrote:
I like explosions myself, don't get me wrong! It's fine if you can get cheap kills like carriers or whatever capital is ratting/minging, but the way Null smallscale has changed is unacceptable.

In your opinion. An opinion which others do not share.

Belen Shields wrote:
90% of Smallscale pvp is done by under 1% of Ships avaiable in EVE.

I don't think you understand how PVP works. Some ships are just better at small scale than others by design.

Belen Shields wrote:
Just open your Intel and count how many maledictions and crows get reported during EU or US prime..... and you can't catch them.

I suppose the concept of "baiting" is unknown to you.

Belen Shields wrote:
Smallscale isn't happening except for those real pvp'ers who are willing to loose stuff. Intys are just farming AFK-Ratters, nothing more while smallscale is not existing.

PVP in general is only done by people willing to loose stuff, this isn't new information. I see nothing wrong with farming AFK-Ratters. They should not have been AFK.