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Wormholes

 
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WH sites not spawning?

First post
Author
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#41 - 2014-09-03 22:44:10 UTC
very few sites, but been robbing from other people, so I don't care. just wish I had some damn gas to mine

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#42 - 2014-09-03 23:37:27 UTC
corbexx wrote:
Pavel Sohaj wrote:

Honestly corbexx, do they not care at all ? THere is no incentive to play the game really so all there is to it is account expiration and throwing cash at smth else, maybe some cosmetic items at Dota 2. And judging by general response, ppl are happy that others are leaving even. Not bad.


They care, the issue is they think this is for the best. I disagree and so do most people on the forums. But I don't think they are willing to change it till the numbers show how god aweful this is, At which point I just hope to bob its not to late.

Just a thought here, but what if (big if, I know) one of them descended from their lofty heights atop mount don't-give-a-**** and descended to the realm of us mere mortals and *gasp* actually listened to feedback instead of dismissing it because it doesn't agree with their pre-conceived notion of what players want? We all know that the numbers ("metrics") will back their decision because they have washed their hands of Hyperion and are already 2 weeks deep in the next project.
Sarcasm aside, I say actually because, in my experience, when a Dev comes onto the forums in regards to patch changes they have a tendency to:
1)Ask for feedback
2)Quiet the concerns of their player base by sounding reasonable
3)Ignore the forums because too many people won't drink the Kool-Aid (people still disagreeing with them)
4)Proceed with/leave in place the changes they came up with
5)Move on to another half-baked idea in the same way
6)Lock the thread or let it die a natural death by not seeing a Dev post for scores of pages
7)Defend their position with the mysterious "metrics" that, of course, support their position entirely


I get that they're the developers, they make the game, but from my perspective they seem to have lost touch with the fact that players make the content. No one wants to pay for/grind for a sub just to run the same handful of missions, we continue to sub to the game because of the other people in it and when they start screwing with that they are, quite literally, pushing players closer and closer to un-sub'ing. I don't expect the Dev's to be at the beck and call of the players, but I am neither the first nor the thousandth person to express concern that they do what they want and damn what we think of it. There has to be a middle ground and, on the face of it, the CSM would seem to be a step in the right direction but from my perspective it seems like even the CSM has trouble getting through to the Dev's. I could be wrong on that last bit though since I have exactly 0 experience with being a CSM rep.
Now, I know a few players that were at FanFest and they told me that the spawn distance change actually came from players at a round-table and that is great, however that was a fairly small percentage of the total player base. I also understand that it wouldn't be a good business model if they were to scrap all the code and manhours every time the forums disagree, but is it too much to ask for modifications to be made? The example that comes to my mind is the RLML debacle with Rise, and that is the basis for my little list up yonder, and the reason I yap about it so much is because Rise told players that he wanted to modify RLML's so that an ammo swap wouldn't take the full 35 seconds. We're still waiting for that. He also admitted that the RLML's were released on a rush job, they were incomplete and yet they haven't been touched to my knowledge since.
These are just examples of my concerns, I could be way off base and if I am willing to admit it, but as a common player on the forums it seems like a great many people agree with me, at least in part, for their own reasons.


**Again, just to be clear, it is entirely possible that I am way off base so, if I am and someone would like to point that out, try and resist the urge to flame and let's try to keep this civil and reasonable. Much like Trinkets, I am not entirely sober so if my thought process seems off that is likely why.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#43 - 2014-09-03 23:55:34 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
There is two ways to look at this, given information leaked by CCP Gheyscale.

~interesting stuff~

Is that solid knowledge or more like conjecture?

If that is fact and the numbers were not adjusted to keep site spawns like before the changes, that would seem incredibly... odd. It's hard to imagine that something obvious like that could be an oversight.

From my own scanning, I can say that I see plenty of sites, but since most of the systems are inactive, they may just have been there a long time.


You are so good at low-llevel rhetorical sarcasm I was halfway through responding to you in TL;DR fashion before I trollface.jpg. Hahahahah. Ahhahahah.

The above was a bit of insight gained at the bottom of an overfilled tumbler of Oban 14 year old single malt. There is literally no way it could not work in one of the above two ways, when you think about it after a relatively smaller glass of Six isles Blended.

As to your hilarious assertion that the devs could make such an obvious oversight, we have seen them look over the edge of their bathtub of terrible PR and add descriptions to wormholes to clue in their hapless victims, uh customers, as to wwhether they can take their 1.8B ISk Tengu through any particular K162 or not.

There is, overall, a case to be made for increasing ratting income from sites. Given you have infinite-spawning Sanctums in Null, with Local, and straight payout to ISK, or let alone incursion farming (now 24 hours long after they patched it to stop griefing of those entitled whiny neckbeards), it is kind of a bit of an insult to wormholers when, eg, 6 guys make 55M each after churning C4 sites (Info Sanctums) for an hour. Then we have to salvage, move the loot and blue poo to market, and in many cases prep for an hour beforehand.

Seems odd that the highest risk activity in the game gets actively made riskier, and now due to maths, less lucrative (to the point of starvation), and we will have to wait weeks, if not months, for change. I mean, CCP Fozzie brought the nerf bat out after 6 months on Ishtars Online, and it was a swing and a miss. Your Bouncer IIs track 5% less at 100km, where your victims have near zero transversal anyway.

GOLF CLAP
Maduin Shi
MAGA Inc
#44 - 2014-09-04 01:36:23 UTC
corbexx wrote:
chris elliot wrote:
corbexx wrote:
Maduin Shi wrote:
corbexx wrote:


aye agree.

although after a patch (espeically the first wh patch in 3 years) stuff should be up even if its just due to people trying **** out. so if its down early on that could be a issue, although the oposite is true and it coudl be people need a month to figure it out.

need to wait for numbers. although my worry is by the time we get them **** will already be in a really bad stage.


It could be symptomatic of a big drop in WH groups farming their static connections, since its now a lot harder to secure an inactive static. "Parking lot" wormhole systems may be becoming a bigger problem.


aye but this is still bad. People need to make isk and they are still in space so targets which provide content.



From the sound of things lately mate the only things people are doing in space by and large is ship spinning and waiting.


sad thing is I think you could be very right.

we've connected to a few big groups and they havent had the numbers to fight us, so we have literally farmed there sites.


Well if it gets any worse PvP will become the new PvE. Roll

Maduin Shi
MAGA Inc
#45 - 2014-09-04 01:44:34 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
There is two ways to look at this, given information leaked by CCP Gheyscale.

~interesting stuff~

Is that solid knowledge or more like conjecture?

If that is fact and the numbers were not adjusted to keep site spawns like before the changes, that would seem incredibly... odd. It's hard to imagine that something obvious like that could be an oversight.

From my own scanning, I can say that I see plenty of sites, but since most of the systems are inactive, they may just have been there a long time.


You are so good at low-llevel rhetorical sarcasm I was halfway through responding to you in TL;DR fashion before I trollface.jpg. Hahahahah. Ahhahahah.

The above was a bit of insight gained at the bottom of an overfilled tumbler of Oban 14 year old single malt. There is literally no way it could not work in one of the above two ways, when you think about it after a relatively smaller glass of Six isles Blended.


LOL that must be some ******* amazing booze, because that had to be one of the best Greyscale impressions I've ever seen
Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-09-04 11:05:33 UTC
Ok so a little over a week since patch and we have had following spawn in our C4:

2 x gas sites
1 x cosmic anom

On the other hand no shortage of WH. As far as im aware, no one had been running PVE sites in our home since patch day. I've never thought our C4 spawn rate was particularly high, but this seems way too low. Shocked

Bleichrodt
Blunderbuss.
#47 - 2014-09-04 14:34:16 UTC
Since patch have really noticed this-thought to check forums to see if it just me.
I move through many systems every session-there is clearly a dearth of anomalies-seems to have been worsening daily since last week....as for finding any action with everyone either pos'd up continually or just not at home any more....

Have they really gone and wrecked w-space?Ugh
Relgast
Losi Laboratories
#48 - 2014-09-11 02:25:52 UTC
Yeah, we have seen the same thing. We have had a really active site spawn for about a year - and after the patch its been 1 anom every couple days at best. We assumed it was just everyone hibernating after the patch... Hope it wakes back up soon...
Nancy Wayke
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2014-09-11 08:00:06 UTC
As of last night we have had zero combat sites spawn since the patch. I mailed corbexx yesterday on my main with more information.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#50 - 2014-09-11 08:47:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
The prevailing thought regarding wh spawns is based on the idea that wh space code is merely repurposed k-space code (would make a ton of sense from a dev pov)

this means things like constellations and more importantly spawn mechanics based on them would also be reused (and why not?)

so the explanation for no sites spawning really is as simple as an extreme drop in a) people in wh space/exploring wh space (warping to sigs to despawn them in statics is normal practice for all smart c5/6 corps) and b) a drop in people running sites.

Now its all fine and dandy saying we should wait for 2 months of data and for ccp to get off their lazy behinds but a lot of people, once they unsub, are not coming back. wh space is PERMANENTLY losing people. they are not coming back.

just to make it crystal clear ccp and corbexx, the damage done, and being done right now is PERMANENT unless huge incentives are introduced to move back into whs or resub. just reversing most of these change wont be enough anymore.

tldr: ccp got rekt wrt whs.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#51 - 2014-09-11 10:02:37 UTC
I wonder if enough people unsub the melted nano ribbon prices will reach 10-15 mil again? Big smile
umnikar
Fishbone Industries
#52 - 2014-09-12 08:28:34 UTC
Janeway84 wrote:
I wonder if enough people unsub the melted nano ribbon prices will reach 10-15 mil again? Big smile


Don't think so. c1-4 has about 0 impact on the market.
Nancy Wayke
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2014-09-12 09:55:52 UTC
We had our first site spawn since the patch, so we're now on +1
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#54 - 2014-09-12 11:16:56 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
The prevailing thought regarding wh spawns is based on the idea that wh space code is merely repurposed k-space code (would make a ton of sense from a dev pov)

this means things like constellations and more importantly spawn mechanics based on them would also be reused (and why not?)

so the explanation for no sites spawning really is as simple as an extreme drop in a) people in wh space/exploring wh space (warping to sigs to despawn them in statics is normal practice for all smart c5/6 corps) and b) a drop in people running sites.

Now its all fine and dandy saying we should wait for 2 months of data and for ccp to get off their lazy behinds but a lot of people, once they unsub, are not coming back. wh space is PERMANENTLY losing people. they are not coming back.

just to make it crystal clear ccp and corbexx, the damage done, and being done right now is PERMANENT unless huge incentives are introduced to move back into whs or resub. just reversing most of these change wont be enough anymore.

tldr: ccp got rekt wrt whs.


While I disagree with the lazy devs bit, your overall conclusions of the effects are sound.
yes, people are leaving wormhole space, some temporarily, some with no wish to ever come back.
Mostly, once someone leaves in the first place, the decision is so reluctantly arrived at, and so tiresome to implement, that there will need to be STUNNING improvements to encourage return.
So in short they have created a massive amount of future work for themselves.
From Corbexx's posts he is quite clear in his concerns, and is working VERY hard to bring matters to CCP's attention, and provide hard data regarding Wh income, to address this.

But yes, Hyperion was a massive clusterfrack for wormhole space. But through misunderstanding, lack of understanding, and ill advised, I doubt if laziness was the cause.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Maker Atavuli
Atavuli Exploration Society
#55 - 2014-09-12 16:07:53 UTC
Since the patch we have had ONE fort to spawn, ALL of the other sigs have been WH's. As a long time resident and active member of the EVE community I am asking CCP to please let the players know what they are doing. If you intended to change the spawn rate just say so. We are not asking to know the secret mechanics as we are smart enough to grasp that soon anyway. Just some confirmation, yes there is a issue and we are addressing it or no the game is working correctly. We have a vote coming up to decide if its worth continuing to live in Wspace or not. My corp has gone from playing every night for 3-4 hours to folks logging in seeing an empty piece of swiss cheese and logging out to play other games. As a group we have been playing together for years I hate the idea of losing these guys.

I am NOT crazy they made me take my medication this morning!

Jarett Thoranos
Perkone
Caldari State
#56 - 2014-09-13 22:42:18 UTC
Anyone know if CCP plans to 'fix' this issue?
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#57 - 2014-09-13 22:44:35 UTC
Jarett Thoranos wrote:
Anyone know if CCP plans to 'fix' this issue?


hahaha

no they don't

just give up on wormhole space it's dead
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#58 - 2014-09-15 19:35:32 UTC
Not had anything but 1 ore site and wormholes for a week straight :S most of the systems empty or not in the chains are devoid of more than 1-2 sites also aside from the odd empty system that'll have a dozen site or so.
Prince Golem
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-09-16 00:17:41 UTC
going to be leaving this worm hole soon if I don't get any sites to run. 4 combats sites in a week. last two days+ none. something is broken.
Nancy Wayke
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2014-09-17 21:35:40 UTC
Update, since the patch we've had 3 sites despawn, and 3 sites spawn, so we're at 3 sites.