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RE changes, Paging Corbexx and the new guy.

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Winthorp
#1 - 2014-09-11 22:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
Source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/lighting-the-invention-bulb/

So with the changes RE is now being merged into invention they have made further worrying changes to subsystem reverse engineering.

The new change is you will be able to select the subsystem directly and not the random chance it is currently. While short term this is great as there will be no wastage involved with reverse engineering unprofitable subsystems long term it worries me.

Long term we were told by devs that when they are looking at the T3 rebalance their ideal outcome would be rebalancing susystems so that all subsystems become useful unlike their current form. The changes to reverse engineering do not really go hand in hand with what we understood to be their future plans.

It was my understanding that T3's are after recons in the rebalance cycle so T3's should be getting looked at either now by developers or very soon behind the scenes.

So should we start to worry or should we have the dreaded T3 debate now so we don't get a Hyperion level patch we all hate?

Should i right click trash the ******* hundreds of unprofitable T3 Subsystem BPC's i have?

EDIT: They are also adding decryptor usage and a 40% reduction in RE % rates you can expect your current cheap T3 costs to change.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#2 - 2014-09-11 23:03:13 UTC
Um...So they want to make all the subsystems useful. Therefore making all of them wanted by some people, and your logic is that noone will build them or want them....

Im really confused.
Winthorp
#3 - 2014-09-11 23:05:46 UTC
Icarus Able wrote:
Um...So they want to make all the subsystems useful. Therefore making all of them wanted by some people, and your logic is that noone will build them or want them....

Im really confused.


My logic is this change to RE dos not go hand in hand with them making every subsystem usefull in the future and there is now concern that won't happen.

Please read again before derping.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#4 - 2014-09-11 23:22:13 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Icarus Able wrote:
Um...So they want to make all the subsystems useful. Therefore making all of them wanted by some people, and your logic is that noone will build them or want them....

Im really confused.


My logic is this change to RE dos not go hand in hand with them making every subsystem usefull in the future and there is now concern that won't happen.

Please read again before derping.



How do they not go hand in hand? Making all the subs useful and being able to choose the sub you make have no connection...
Winthorp
#5 - 2014-09-11 23:27:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
Icarus Able wrote:
How do they not go hand in hand? Making all the subs useful and being able to choose the sub you make have no connection...


/Sigh... OK.

The change is made from short term goals due to the heavy whining from people that make subsystems and continually get subsystem BPC's that never get built due to the profit margins, so this change is a play to that so they can avoid unprofitable susbs.

If in the future there was changes to subsystems so they are all useful then this change wouldn't be needed as the builder would be happy with a variable chance based system.

See my concern now? Short term this change suits me greatly, long term it leads towards they either havn't spoken with other CCP teams that would be working on T3 changes now or in the future or the future changes just won't be happening.

EDIT: Further more the profitable subsystem market will crash even further from their low % profit margins due to the easy accessibility of the desired subsystem BPC of choice. I guess i will just stick to hulls after changes http://i.imgur.com/Jt7IjUg.png but then so will other people.

The changes seem like they haven't been thought through well.
Louis Catcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-09-12 01:23:44 UTC
Hmm... I myself get almost 100% of my income through subsystems, i get all nanoribbs, relic loot and data loot myself or through the corp, i normally trade my blue loot through my corp for more material. This makes me very very concerned. Will i have to take down my manufacturing pos or not?

The general knowledge about subs at the moment is that they will increase in price, therefore you should hold on to your precious subs right? Now if they let us choose bpc then the price would decrease dramatically as those nanobot and good offensive systems will be increased in masses :(

Thats how I would interpret it I am probably wrong but hey lets just let ccp screw us over even more shall we?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-09-12 02:41:30 UTC
As long as I can still buy Proteus' in Jita it's fine.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Winthorp
#8 - 2014-09-12 02:52:02 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
As long as I can still buy Proteus' in Jita it's fine.


See they will always be there, what concerns me is nothing will change about them and we will have the same ****** subs forever.
Glyndi
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#9 - 2014-09-12 03:14:15 UTC
Sounds like they are making changes to how they are made which kind of goes with the whole industry releases. How could you possibly tin foil that into them not changing subs? This is what's called "jumping to conclusions".

I mean, I get a person could now just make the "good" sub while avoiding the potential for one of the **** ones.

Either way, seems like a stretch.
HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-09-12 03:32:54 UTC
I will post this written schnapshot of scheiße that ccp has to deal with.

- Pos
- Tech3
- Wormhole "PvE"
- Incursions
- Faction Warfare???? GO BLASTER SUPREMACY
- Jita
- Nullsec
- Did I mention Pos?
- Drones
- Supercapitals
- Jump Bridges
- Roles and Asset Management
- That fugging door
- Legion (that one ... ha)
- Next CCP Guard Song (still waiting for the record)
- The Trailer for ... Kronos?
- Fixing MONUMENT NAME FINDER - BETA* (if that Intern is still working on it)
- Solid Wormhole Forum (just saying)
- Scanning
- Wormhole "Management" and Mapping Tool
- Next Level Burner Missions
- 6/10 and the story of the silly loot drops
- Blitzing 10 / 10 oh wait .. actually blitzing any kind of mission or the "static" thing of missions in general (something something hard coded but Fozzie said things will come)
- Waterboarding
- TiDi (this just roll with it mentality is stressful, it clearly doesnt work in your favor and by that i mean ccp, more money could have burned)
- "Station infestion of nullsec, by that i mean that the station coverage out in null is better then in Empire"
- "More null to null connections"


and so on and on and on...

still love the changes to the fleet mechanics (non warp and management are dreams)

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
Maduin Shi
MAGA Inc
#11 - 2014-09-12 05:21:42 UTC
Glyndi wrote:
Sounds like they are making changes to how they are made which kind of goes with the whole industry releases. How could you possibly tin foil that into them not changing subs? This is what's called "jumping to conclusions".

I mean, I get a person could now just make the "good" sub while avoiding the potential for one of the **** ones.

Either way, seems like a stretch.


I think this is the proper take. If anything, the fact that they're making changes to RE means that the subsystem rebalance is going to happen and its going to happen soon.

This may be a case of CCP doing things in an unexpected order because invention was sorta broken with Crius and folding in RE changes ahead of subs rebalancing was simply more convenient for the devs.

That said I hope our CSMs are on top of this.
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#12 - 2014-09-12 06:08:32 UTC
I am not sure I agree. The production/RE side is a separate issue. Let's get that done. I would also be guessing that it's a completely different team handling it.

I am not expecting any changes for T3 pricing. Yes, you have a lower probability of success, but you can use decryptors and actually RE stuff you want. At the end of the day, you'll end up at the same point.

Could be wrong.
Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-09-12 06:12:02 UTC
After the way they handled the wormhole changes, am I alone in my fear of them touching t3s?
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#14 - 2014-09-12 07:30:50 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
It was my understanding that T3's are after recons in the rebalance cycle so T3's should be getting looked at either now by developers or very soon behind the scenes.

Sadly it is more like: Ishtar-another BS pass-Ishtar-Recons and bombers (and hopefully coverops thanks to midslotscanmodules)-Ishtar and EAFs- T3s....

And while I do not agree with Winthorp, this part of the devblog worried me, too.
We are aware that Tech III subsystems are not all equally valuable right now, which is why we may iterate on their material composition to counteract these changes if needed.
This sounds alot like tenguparts too good, make them cheaper to produce to "balance it".

Also the Pre-Summit-0.0-thread is a slap in the face of the wormhole community
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#15 - 2014-09-12 07:32:03 UTC
So,

two changes

1. RE allows making of specific BPC
2. Rebalance of subs to make them all useful


If 1 happens but not 2, you will no longer waste time/isk on shitsubsystem bpc's anymore so you should be happy
if 1 AND 2 happen you get the added benefit of being able to use all your stored "**** bpc's" so you should be happy
if 2 happens but not 1 you will be able to use your "**** bpc's" so you should be happy
if neither happens, you should be happy because CCP already gave us all these lovely Hyperion changes.

Did I get that right?
Winthorp
#16 - 2014-09-12 07:43:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
Ya Huei wrote:
So,

two changes

1. RE allows making of specific BPC
2. Rebalance of subs to make them all useful


If 1 happens but not 2, you will no longer waste time/isk on shitsubsystem bpc's anymore so you should be happy
if 1 AND 2 happen you get the added benefit of being able to use all your stored "**** bpc's" so you should be happy
if 2 happens but not 1 you will be able to use your "**** bpc's" so you should be happy
if neither happens, you should be happy because CCP already gave us all these lovely Hyperion changes.

Did I get that right?


You fail to grasp the entire point of this thread.

I will adapt regardless just as my post suggests. I have a stupid amount of ISK

Pro tip: this post is about future T3 rebalance and is it happening? Should we start discussing it seriously now to avoid a Hyperion level expansion?

And given that they are letting sov null know the timetable of their changes now i think we deserve being told when our T3's are to be rebalanced as we didn't get any warning our entire way of life was getting rebalanced in Hyperion.

For the source on how much notice they have been given and how much input they are getting compared to WH space: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=372889
Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#17 - 2014-09-12 07:46:16 UTC
Maduin Shi wrote:
Glyndi wrote:
Sounds like they are making changes to how they are made which kind of goes with the whole industry releases. How could you possibly tin foil that into them not changing subs? This is what's called "jumping to conclusions".

I mean, I get a person could now just make the "good" sub while avoiding the potential for one of the **** ones.

Either way, seems like a stretch.


I think this is the proper take. If anything, the fact that they're making changes to RE means that the subsystem rebalance is going to happen and its going to happen soon.

This may be a case of CCP doing things in an unexpected order because invention was sorta broken with Crius and folding in RE changes ahead of subs rebalancing was simply more convenient for the devs.

That said I hope our CSMs are on top of this.


Such is the development process.
I imagine things will be much more clear after the summit next week.

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

Youtube: /asayanami

Twitter: @asayanami

wormholefundamentals.com
Winthorp
#18 - 2014-09-12 07:49:02 UTC
Asayanami Dei wrote:


Such is the development process.
I imagine things will be much more clear after the summit next week.


Considering it has already been stated that the majority of the summit will be concerning sov null i wouldn't hold your breath.
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#19 - 2014-09-12 08:06:14 UTC
What makes you think that T3 rebalance will not happen ? There is no reason to assume CCP will decide to ignore that ship class but do all the other ones ? that is just silly.

What I can predict however is that there will be a massive outcry when it does happen because the nerfbat will strike hard.
Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#20 - 2014-09-12 08:23:43 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Asayanami Dei wrote:


Such is the development process.
I imagine things will be much more clear after the summit next week.


Considering it has already been stated that the majority of the summit will be concerning sov null i wouldn't hold your breath.

https://i.imgflip.com/85j5j.jpg

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

Youtube: /asayanami

Twitter: @asayanami

wormholefundamentals.com
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