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A Reminder Regarding Real Life Harassment

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Clara Pond
Never Not Snazzy
#561 - 2014-09-12 03:17:03 UTC
And a cherry picked response is exactly what I expected.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#562 - 2014-09-12 03:22:52 UTC
Clara Pond wrote:
And a cherry picked response is exactly what I expected.


You should feel blessed that I even deigned to acknowledge your post, peon.

Mr Epeen Cool
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#563 - 2014-09-12 03:26:31 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Clara Pond wrote:
And a cherry picked response is exactly what I expected.


You should feel blessed that I even deigned to acknowledge your post, peon.

Mr Epeen Cool


I do wonder sometimes if you aren't a dev with an agenda posting on his 'main' just so you can vent on players like this without repercussions from your employers.

I wonder it, but I won't assert it.

Carry on.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#564 - 2014-09-12 03:37:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Clara Pond
Never Not Snazzy
#565 - 2014-09-12 03:43:46 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Clara Pond wrote:
And a cherry picked response is exactly what I expected.


You should feel blessed that I even deigned to acknowledge your post, peon.

Mr Epeen Cool


That's a personal attack.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#566 - 2014-09-12 04:00:40 UTC
I will say this much.

I don't believe that these bans have gone out without good reason. I've only indulged the possibility for the sake of discussion. Thing is, people aren't getting banned just because they're in a certain crowd, because I can still see a few of those crowd online right now, some of whom participated in the bonus room to a degree.

I don't see a pattern to these bans, I don't see an agenda to these bans. There are plenty of gankers still ganking. There are plenty of scammers still scamming. EVE, for now, is still EVE.

What I do believe is that the people who got banned know exactly what they did or didn't do for it, and they have a petition system by which to go through to appeal it.

My problem with all of this, as stated, is that there are people who have demonstrably committed out-of-game harassment of EVE players and are still playing.

Which beggarss the question, beliefs aside, can we really know for sure that anyone is safe from arbitrary banning or actual RL harassment while they're playing the game?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Lady Areola Fappington
#567 - 2014-09-12 04:31:25 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I will say this much.

I don't believe that these bans have gone out without good reason. I've only indulged the possibility for the sake of discussion. Thing is, people aren't getting banned just because they're in a certain crowd, because I can still see a few of those crowd online right now, some of whom participated in the bonus room to a degree.

I don't see a pattern to these bans, I don't see an agenda to these bans. There are plenty of gankers still ganking. There are plenty of scammers still scamming. EVE, for now, is still EVE.

What I do believe is that the people who got banned know exactly what they did or didn't do for it, and they have a petition system by which to go through to appeal it.

My problem with all of this, as stated, is that there are people who have demonstrably committed out-of-game harassment of EVE players and are still playing.

Which beggarss the question, beliefs aside, can we really know for sure that anyone is safe from arbitrary banning or actual RL harassment while they're playing the game?



Knowing the people involved, I'm absolutely positive there was some grey area "skirting" of the rules, and it likely did step over the line.


I have noticed a degree of bias though, when it comes to CCP taking action on harassment. Part of that is the "bad guys" fault, too...we tend to laugh at insults and such that the typical carebear would be all over reporting. Even with that, though, it seems pretty easy to get away with harassing a "bad guy", all by writing it off by "I was upset!"

I really wish CCP would put it's foot down on all that BS, though. Getting blown up doesn't give you license to whip out RL threats and disgusting insults.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#568 - 2014-09-12 05:27:14 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
As an aside.

Does anyone else get the impression that every morning deep in the little bee inner sanctum there's a lotto to see who has to play the forum idiot that day?

I do. And on top of that, I think they rigged it so James keeps winning that honor.

Because...dude...your posting. It's like the surgeon accidentally removed the entire part of your brain that covers cognitive functions.

Mr Epeen Cool

I'm tickled pink that you got all creative about how much you dislike my posting.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#569 - 2014-09-12 05:28:21 UTC
Clara Pond wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Clara Pond wrote:
And a cherry picked response is exactly what I expected.


You should feel blessed that I even deigned to acknowledge your post, peon.

Mr Epeen Cool


That's a personal attack.

That's the best kind of attack.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Mira Robinson
#570 - 2014-09-12 06:01:33 UTC
How much simpler things would be if the EULA was shortened to:

Eve contains spaceships. These spaceships may or may not shoot at each other. Sometimes things explode.

If you got exploded, don't be a crybaby.

If you did the exploding, don't be an *******, and keep it in-game.

Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.

It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#571 - 2014-09-12 06:06:21 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Of course, it is easier to whine about the 'grey areas' then to actually help CCP remove them.


It also seems that it's very easy to whine about being banned rather than using a shred of common sense to maintain the most basic level of decency and etiquette when interacting with people in EVE.

Yes, EVE is designed to be harsh and unforgiving, but there's a blatant difference between that and outright harassment.

Those people who're saying that the lines are blurred and they don't understand the definition of harassment are looking for clarification so that they know how much they can bend the rules and push the boundaries before we'll take action, with a view to using any statement we make as ammunition for an appeal should they fall foul of the rules and be slapped with account action.

Sorry, but my original statement still stands. CCP will use best judgement on a case by case basis to ensure that real life harassment is kept out of EVE Online.


It's good that you provided any response at all to the discussion, but out of all the posts with questions and requesting clarification you've decided to respond to a superficial one-liner about whining.


If all legal systems on the planet used the justification you've provided here in order to make laws as ambiguous and undecipherable as possible then we would truly be living under arbitrary justice systems where both oppression and crime are rampant. Clarification doesn't preclude justice or encourage crime. Quite the opposite. Clarification provides a consistent set of rules by which GMs can operate. Consistency doesn't hamstring the enforcers, it helps them execute the law swiftly and decisively.


I also find it curious that your opinion of your own userbase is that we all exist to circumvent your laws.


Everyone in thread can wax poetic on the evils of TS scamming, but the reality is that some of the players banned had nothing to do with Bonus Room scams, extracting tears from other players (a completely valid pasttime, btw), or any other sort of griefing.


Some real concerns were posted in thread (see below), and I wonder if it's any priority at all to provide an official response.


Rabe Raptor wrote:
You can be happy all you want for some bonus room dudes getting banned; I imagine a lot of people wanted them gone. The measure of fuss that's going on over the blanket bans for "real life harassment" is that many of the players who were banned had nothing to do with it and were banned anyways (without warning).



Rabe Raptor wrote:


Actually the Teamspeak in question is a hangout for all sorts of players, many who have nothing to do with any of the bonus room or CODE or any of it. Some random null guys got banned, some random FW guys got banned.. lol

CCP won't respond to it either.



Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Lady Areola Fappington
#572 - 2014-09-12 06:15:45 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:
How much simpler things would be if the EULA was shortened to:

Eve contains spaceships. These spaceships may or may not shoot at each other. Sometimes things explode.

If you got exploded, don't be a crybaby.

If you did the exploding, don't be an *******, and keep it in-game.



I've always been an advocate of keeping things classy, no matter what it is you're doing in EVE.

Sadly, some people just don't understand what being classy means, on any side of the "divide".

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#573 - 2014-09-12 06:16:51 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

Change: introduce even lower threshold for bans due to griefing
Result: Healthier gaming experience in high-sec for players

Stuff like bumping orca's/freighters/miners for hours straight
Stuff like shooting new players in velators repeatedly just for lols
Stuff like deliberately stealing mission items from players' missions

All of this and more is griefing. All of this must end.


I've noticed your short sighted celebration of the CCP decisions which this thread was created for. You seem to be glossing over the still-standing CCP position that you're not supposed to feel safe in New Eden and that bumping is perfectly acceptable.


I imagine you will, however, continue to request and wish for changes to EVE that would essentially destroy its core characteristics.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#574 - 2014-09-12 06:17:44 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:
How much simpler things would be if the EULA was shortened to:

Eve contains spaceships. These spaceships may or may not shoot at each other. Sometimes things explode.

If you got exploded, don't be a crybaby.

If you did the exploding, don't be an *******, and keep it in-game.


Why is it only the people doing the exploding who need to be told to keep it in game?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mira Robinson
#575 - 2014-09-12 06:22:03 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Mira Robinson wrote:
How much simpler things would be if the EULA was shortened to:

Eve contains spaceships. These spaceships may or may not shoot at each other. Sometimes things explode.

If you got exploded, don't be a crybaby.

If you did the exploding, don't be an *******, and keep it in-game.


Why is it only the people doing the exploding who need to be told to keep it in game?

Poorly worded. Keep it in game no matter what side of the wreck you're on.

But it's aimed more towards gankers because they do the tear-harvesting.

Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.

It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#576 - 2014-09-12 06:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Mira Robinson wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Mira Robinson wrote:
How much simpler things would be if the EULA was shortened to:

Eve contains spaceships. These spaceships may or may not shoot at each other. Sometimes things explode.

If you got exploded, don't be a crybaby.

If you did the exploding, don't be an *******, and keep it in-game.


Why is it only the people doing the exploding who need to be told to keep it in game?

Poorly worded. Keep it in game no matter what side of the wreck you're on.

But it's aimed more towards gankers because they do the tear-harvesting.


What's good for one is good for all. You can't single out a group of people based on their choice of legitimate in-game behaviour. It doesn't matter if one does more 'tear harvesting' than another, that's not the point. Because on the other side, it's the tears themselves that often trigger the emotional urges that lead to the vilest forms of real life harassment.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mira Robinson
#577 - 2014-09-12 06:26:08 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Mira Robinson wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Mira Robinson wrote:
How much simpler things would be if the EULA was shortened to:

Eve contains spaceships. These spaceships may or may not shoot at each other. Sometimes things explode.

If you got exploded, don't be a crybaby.

If you did the exploding, don't be an *******, and keep it in-game.


Why is it only the people doing the exploding who need to be told to keep it in game?

Poorly worded. Keep it in game no matter what side of the wreck you're on.

But it's aimed more towards gankers because they do the tear-harvesting.


What's good for one is good for all. You can't single out a group of people based on their choice of legitimate in-game behaviour.

Hey genius, once you get them on TeamSpeak, it's not in-game behavior anymore, is it?

Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.

It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#578 - 2014-09-12 06:27:51 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:

There are other activities that are probably not ok. Activities tinged with sadism. Like using the sunk cost fallacy to convince a player to lose all their sp. That stuff can be avoided with common sense, and common decency.


Since you've decided to reopen this can of worms, please explain how a grown adult who's has voluntarily surrendered $30 worth of things is subject to "sunk cost" ransoming? Was this player under some impression that he was investing in a legitimate fund with guaranteed profit?

Maybe we can consult the opinion of the victim of so-called "sadism" as you put it.

In Sohkar's own words:
Quote:
He never petitioned Erotica 1, does not believe Erotica 1 should be banned, and comes out and says that he should technically be banned for the things he said himself while raging at E1 and his associates if the recording is considered legit evidence for TOS violations.

Sohkar rejects the claims that he was tortured. He got angry. He points out that after Ripard's blog post, he tried to reach out and talk to Ripard and sent him an eve-mail. Ripard has still not responded to him after several days.



What you've incorrectly labeled as sadism is, in fact, PVP exploitation that is mandated by CCP's own official statements littered everywhere on the forums.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Lady Areola Fappington
#579 - 2014-09-12 06:30:06 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:

Poorly worded. Keep it in game no matter what side of the wreck you're on.

But it's aimed more towards gankers because they do the tear-harvesting.



To be honest, I think "tear harvesting" is what ends up crossing the line. It's one thing if your chosen target flips they lid and rages out. It's something totally different if you sit there, work at, and needle someone into snapping.

Don't do the latter.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Mira Robinson
#580 - 2014-09-12 06:32:50 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Mira Robinson wrote:

Poorly worded. Keep it in game no matter what side of the wreck you're on.

But it's aimed more towards gankers because they do the tear-harvesting.



To be honest, I think "tear harvesting" is what ends up crossing the line. It's one thing if your chosen target flips they lid and rages out. It's something totally different if you sit there, work at, and needle someone into snapping.

Don't do the latter.

I agree. I think a lot of New Order folk should be handed their spaceship retirement papers. It's disgusting.

Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.

It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance.