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Confusion on yields
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Darryn Lowe
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-09-11 23:45:57 UTC
Sorry, I'm a bit confused with regards to the percentage increase of mining yields based on skills.

Is it for example Mining 5:

5% + 5% + 5% + 5% + 5% = 25%

Strip Miner = 540

540 + (540 * 25%) = 675

Or is it an exponential thing like:

Strip Miner = 540

Mining 1: 540 + (540 * 5%) = 567
Mining 2: 567 + (567 * 5%) = 595
Mining 3: 595 + (595 * 5%) = 625
Mining 4: 625 + (625 * 5%) = 656
Mining 5: 656 + (656 * 5%) = 689

Or am I way off track and it's a completely different way of calculating?

I'm trying to add the functionality into my spreadsheet in Numbers (Excel ones using macros have issues even in Excel for Mac).

Thanks for your help
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#2 - 2014-09-12 00:56:20 UTC
It's going to multiplicative per skill and module, but not per level.
Darryn Lowe
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-09-12 01:01:59 UTC
Aerie Evingod wrote:
It's going to multiplicative per skill and module, but not per level.

Sorry my maths is really bad so could you explain that a little bit more with an example.

It's just I have issues visualising numbers.
Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-09-12 01:17:29 UTC
(1+skilllvl*0.05)*modulex*moduley

etc
Darryn Lowe
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-09-12 01:22:34 UTC
Termy Rockling wrote:
(1+skilllvl*0.05)*modulex*moduley

etc

Thanks, I think I understand that.

But what does the 5% per level mean in the info?

Also how does Astrogeology fit into all of this?

Thanks guys.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#6 - 2014-09-12 01:52:26 UTC
Darryn Lowe wrote:
Termy Rockling wrote:
(1+skilllvl*0.05)*modulex*moduley

etc

Thanks, I think I understand that.

But what does the 5% per level mean in the info?

Also how does Astrogeology fit into all of this?

Thanks guys.



Mining 5 would be 25%

So
540*1.25

Then the next skill might be another 25% (or whatever)

So
540*1.25*1.25 etc.

Put simply, each percentage bonus gets its own multiplier on the base amount (multiple modules like MLUs are subject to diminishing returns)

Which looks like
(Base)*(1+%)*(1+%)*....


More Here (the first google result for "EVE Math"):
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Eve_Math

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-09-12 01:52:47 UTC
Mining*Astro*Shipbonus*ModuleX*ModuleY

Where Mining is 1+Miningskill*0.05 so 1-1.25

Same for Astro, if they indeed were 5% per level

Check numbers with EFT or some proper mining calc.
Darryn Lowe
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-09-12 02:35:51 UTC
Thanks for that it's really helping a lot.

Going to read up the Eve Math page now.
onions2
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-09-12 07:27:15 UTC  |  Edited by: onions2
i know it's early and my brain is still asleep, but doing that math still doesn't match my yield... (it's 8.20am here)

Ship is a covetor

3x T1 strip miners
2x Mining upgrade II's

Mining lvl5
A/G lvl 3 (atm)
M/Barge LVL 2 (if it matters)

(char is here, if i've missed any Clicky )

my cycle produces 931M3 of ore, per 172s, per strip.

“To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill”
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#10 - 2014-09-12 14:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Aerie Evingod
onions2 wrote:
i know it's early and my brain is still asleep, but doing that math still doesn't match my yield... (it's 8.20am here)

Ship is a covetor

3x T1 strip miners
2x Mining upgrade II's

Mining lvl5
A/G lvl 3 (atm)
M/Barge LVL 2 (if it matters)

(char is here, if i've missed any Clicky )

my cycle produces 931M3 of ore, per 172s, per strip.


You're in a fleet with someone who has the mining leadership skill at 1.

540 * 1.25 (mining v) * 1.15 (astrogeogly iii) * 1.09 (mining laser upgrade) * 1.0783 (mining laser upgrade after stacking penalty) * 1.02 (mining leadership I) = 931
onions2
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-09-12 14:44:47 UTC
Aerie Evingod wrote:
onions2 wrote:
i know it's early and my brain is still asleep, but doing that math still doesn't match my yield... (it's 8.20am here)

Ship is a covetor

3x T1 strip miners
2x Mining upgrade II's

Mining lvl5
A/G lvl 3 (atm)
M/Barge LVL 2 (if it matters)

(char is here, if i've missed any Clicky )

my cycle produces 931M3 of ore, per 172s, per strip.


You're in a fleet with someone who has the mining leadership skill at 1.

540 * 1.25 (mining v) * 1.15 (astrogeogly iii) * 1.09 (mining laser upgrade) * 1.0783 (mining laser upgrade after stacking penalty) * 1.02 (mining leadership I) = 931


nope, because our corp is literally my bro and i, my alt and his main smash lvl 3's while this char mines and his alt salvages. he has no interest in mining and literally has lvl 1 mining just so if we do a lvl 3 with gneiss or something tasty in it, we can both go grab it.

“To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill”
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#12 - 2014-09-12 15:44:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Aerie Evingod
onions2 wrote:
Aerie Evingod wrote:
onions2 wrote:
i know it's early and my brain is still asleep, but doing that math still doesn't match my yield... (it's 8.20am here)

Ship is a covetor

3x T1 strip miners
2x Mining upgrade II's

Mining lvl5
A/G lvl 3 (atm)
M/Barge LVL 2 (if it matters)

(char is here, if i've missed any Clicky )

my cycle produces 931M3 of ore, per 172s, per strip.


You're in a fleet with someone who has the mining leadership skill at 1.

540 * 1.25 (mining v) * 1.15 (astrogeogly iii) * 1.09 (mining laser upgrade) * 1.0783 (mining laser upgrade after stacking penalty) * 1.02 (mining leadership I) = 931


nope, because our corp is literally my bro and i, my alt and his main smash lvl 3's while this char mines and his alt salvages. he has no interest in mining and literally has lvl 1 mining just so if we do a lvl 3 with gneiss or something tasty in it, we can both go grab it.


Mining foreman will be a leadership skill, not mining. Leave fleet and you should have a cycle of 912, if you rejoin and your yield is 931 then someone in SC/WC/FC position has mining foreman trained to level 1.
onions2
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-09-12 20:33:59 UTC
no one in our corp has mining leadership.

This is my alt Click

It's the only one i'm ever in fleet with when i'm mining, as he flies the miasmos.

Hence why i asked the question, because the math doesn't add up to what my miner produces.

“To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill”
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#14 - 2014-09-13 00:59:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
onions2 wrote:
Hence why i asked the question, because the math doesn't add up to what my miner produces.

The activation duration implies you are not giving us the correct info.

For that duration, you must have Mining Barge 1.

(1 - Mining Barge 1 * 4%) * 180 = 172.8
(1 - Mining Barge 2 * 4%) * 180 = 165.6

Re-check your in-game yield, cycle, and fit.
onions2
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-09-13 08:49:55 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
onions2 wrote:
Hence why i asked the question, because the math doesn't add up to what my miner produces.

The activation duration implies you are not giving us the correct info.

For that duration, you must have Mining Barge 1.

(1 - Mining Barge 1 * 4%) * 180 = 172.8
(1 - Mining Barge 2 * 4%) * 180 = 165.6

Re-check your in-game yield, cycle, and fit.


i thought that would have been a given, considering i'm using a covetor ?!

I also linked my character for any skills i might have missed.

I'm now using T2 strip miners and have astro geo 4 training and getting 1009M3, which still doesn't add up on the math.

i might point out, that although it might look like i'm being an ass (re-reading it, it does look that way) im actually interested to know what it is that's pushing my yield up as if there's another skill on the list i can train to get more i would like to know about it !!

“To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill”
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#16 - 2014-09-13 15:58:14 UTC
onions2 wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
onions2 wrote:
Hence why i asked the question, because the math doesn't add up to what my miner produces.

The activation duration implies you are not giving us the correct info.

For that duration, you must have Mining Barge 1.

(1 - Mining Barge 1 * 4%) * 180 = 172.8
(1 - Mining Barge 2 * 4%) * 180 = 165.6

Re-check your in-game yield, cycle, and fit.


i thought that would have been a given, considering i'm using a covetor ?!

I also linked my character for any skills i might have missed.

I'm now using T2 strip miners and have astro geo 4 training and getting 1009M3, which still doesn't add up on the math.

i might point out, that although it might look like i'm being an ass (re-reading it, it does look that way) im actually interested to know what it is that's pushing my yield up as if there's another skill on the list i can train to get more i would like to know about it !!


That's the problem, you said you have a cycle time of 172s which implies mining barge level 1 but your skill list says you have mining barge level 2. You are not giving us the full or truthful picture. With T2 strips, your skills you linked and a coveter the new yieldis once again with mining foreman level 1. Someone in your fleet had the skill, end of story.
onions2
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-09-13 18:36:49 UTC
Aerie Evingod wrote:



That's the problem, you said you have a cycle time of 172s which implies mining barge level 1 but your skill list says you have mining barge level 2. You are not giving us the full or truthful picture. With T2 strips, your skills you linked and a coveter the new yieldis once again with mining foreman level 1. Someone in your fleet had the skill, end of story.


i'm not sure how many times i need to say the same thing, but NO ONE i've fleeted with, has mining foreman, the cycle time is irrelevant anyway as the yield still doesn't make sense !

Its perfectly ok not to know the answer, but calling end of story just because you don't, isn't .

refitted the T1's, just to show you a picture.

click this

Astro Geo 4 is still training, so nothing has changed since this morning.

“To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill”
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#18 - 2014-09-14 00:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
onions2 wrote:
[quote=Aerie Evingod]Its perfectly ok not to know the answer, but calling end of story just because you don't, isn't .

refitted the T1's, just to show you a picture.

click this

Astro Geo 4 is still training, so nothing has changed since this morning.

That picture clearly shows 165.6 for Mining Barge 2, like I previously stated, not 172.

The picture also shows drones in your bay. Let me guess: mining drones.

You never mentioned mining drones. Take the drones out of your drone bay, and check the yield again.
onions2
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-09-14 09:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: onions2
Tau Cabalander wrote:
onions2 wrote:
[quote=Aerie Evingod]Its perfectly ok not to know the answer, but calling end of story just because you don't, isn't .

refitted the T1's, just to show you a picture.

click this

Astro Geo 4 is still training, so nothing has changed since this morning.

That picture clearly shows 165.6 for Mining Barge 2, like I previously stated, not 172.

The picture also shows drones in your bay. Let me guess: mining drones.

You never mentioned mining drones. Take the drones out of your drone bay, and check the yield again.


They're hobgob I's - for the belt rats, that's why i didn't mention mining drones. (mining in a 0.7, so hob gobs deal with the rats easily)

I'm glad i'm not the only one who doesn't have an explaination for why the math doesn't work !

Astro Geo 4 has finished too, my yield is now 1053M3 on the T2 strips.

on a side note, EFT says my yield should be 1133M3...?

3 x modulated strip miner II
3 x veldspar mining crystal I
2 x mining laser upgrade II
survey scanner II
Medium processor overclocking unit I

“To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill”
onions2
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-09-14 15:01:12 UTC
Been dealt with now - turns out i've got a mining chip thing., must have been in there since before i gave up 4 years ago !

“To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill”