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Crime & Punishment

 
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I've stopped giving a rat's ass about isk efficiency.
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Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#1 - 2014-09-11 13:32:23 UTC
Been playing the game for 10 years. Been in many alliances that would hold you accountable for the isk efficiency of your corp or in some cases of individual characters/FC's.

I had a bit of an epiphany yesterday. I killed about 800mil in ships with losses of about 60mil. After all was said and done we went out again and ended up welping a fleet of bombers on a surprise cruiser fleet.

turns out that old timers like me were like, "bloody hell, we should have won that" but the newbies in our fleet were like "OMG WE HOTDROPPED!!! THIS IS AWESOME!!!! FC <3 <3 <3"

That op had an isk efficiency of zero. We lost 15 bombers and a rapier to zero kills. But it was fun to listen to comms when the new guys were like. "set it up again!", "do it again!"

Man.... At what point did I lose that feeling?

FD8K isk efficiency.

T-
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2014-09-11 13:38:31 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/HmYt0eQ.png

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-09-11 14:16:41 UTC
You probably lost that feeling around the same time most newbros do: when some sperglord started raging at you after each whelped fleet.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#4 - 2014-09-11 14:21:51 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
"OMG WE HOTDROPPED!!! THIS IS AWESOME!!!! FC <3 <3 <3"


I almost feel bad for those people.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#5 - 2014-09-11 14:22:46 UTC
LOL. Well maybe some of that did rub off on me. If it did, I'm happy about it.

I enjoyed my time as a "little bee" but I had to take a break from EVE. I got burned out because Goons want the outside world to believe they are little bees, without concern and without "duties" but that only goes so far. I redeployed about 25 bil worth of ships back and forth through all of new Eden 1/2 dozen times in a year's time. "Go here" "go there". "Make it happen". "gogogo".

I finally ended up in syndicate running roams and participating in fleets with up to 50 bil isk on the field at one time.

And if you welp that, then you can't pay for it out of your wallet any more. The pressure starts to grow. You want to win. You must win. ........ you can't lose.

The 350mil bomber fleet was a loss you can understand. You can laugh about that. Losing a dozen dreadnaughts is not. Sure SRP and blah blah blah but there is a lot of second guessing. After DBRB -- who like him or hate him -- is one of Goonswarms most prolific FC's welped a trillion isk fleet in Asakai he created EPIC EVE content but lost his FC tag for ... how long? 6 months?

So, where was I going with that.....? oh yeah... that the facade of "happy little bees" is great, but only if you don't get in deep.

T-
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#6 - 2014-09-11 14:48:20 UTC
Reminds me of a talk I had with an alliance recruiter yesterday. Told me we'd need to polish up our stats if we were to join them. He literally admitted he would get flak for losing expensive stuff. These guys don't hold sov, don't hold space assets and have nothing to lose. They just (hot)drop people. So I asked what practical purpose it would serve to improve our KB. Turns out there's no such thing, it's just about prestige and being able to link other people a webpage that says 98% effiency. I'm to pragmatic to care.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#7 - 2014-09-11 15:05:13 UTC
I prefer efficiency for myself, not out of prestige or bragging rights or anything like that, but because, even after playing on and off since 2006, I'm relatively space poor. Mind you, I know how to make ISK, and I do it relatively well, it's just that I have such a relatively small amount of time to actually play that I'd rather be blowing stuff up than making ISK.

This situation has the beneficial effect of making me look like a much better PvP-er than I really am. In reality, I'm average at best. I'm just really careful about maintaining mobility and exercising good target selection.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#8 - 2014-09-11 15:14:09 UTC
What is this isk efficiency you speak of????

For me, when evaluating a pilot I like to see around an 80% win rate. That's my 'good pilot' sweet spot. Does well, but isn't afraid to get over his head and see just what that dual plated thorax can do. If I see a pilot w/ 95% or better I think risk averse cream puff, big fleet F1 monkey or some other not good term. I like guys not afraid to lose.

Corp kb - You have to look at that from a distance. Where, how often, how active, what they fly, what they take on all of it. If you evaluate a corps pvp mojo by looking at only their isk efficiency then you're going to miss a lot AND get fooled a lot.

Marmites are a great example. They have incredible isk efficiency. They don't have a lot of things I look for. They have their niche, it just doesn't line up with what I'm currently doing in eve. No offense dudes - my kb has a lot of amarr and jita undock kills for the same reasons yours does. That's just not where I'm at right now in eve.

Isk and a new ship are easy to come by. Good times and real enjoyment.... not so much. Listening to the new guy spin on adrenaline for 30 min after losing a bomber - priceless (and only so, becuase you can recall when you were that guy)

To the OP. You sir have won eve - I grant you immunity from judgement and infinite fun... go forth and enjoy!

Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-09-11 15:18:22 UTC
People seem to forget that it is a game. The point is to have fun. If I wanted to spend that many hours/week at night and on weekends grinding out something for more money, I would take a second job.

I feel bad for people who pay attention to 'isk efficiency'. It is a game, not your job.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-09-11 15:57:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Thule
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
"OMG WE HOTDROPPED!!! THIS IS AWESOME!!!! FC <3 <3 <3"


I almost feel bad for those people.


Why?

Doing something like that for the first time is awesome.

Edit: In B4 Serenity makes a "Leto's mom" reference.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#11 - 2014-09-11 16:14:24 UTC
You didn't get the whole story. They hot dropped on Mammy Thule due to an FC error. None of them came out of the experience the same. It wasn't that they were masacred, it's HOW they met their end.

For most it's a bell that will never be un wrung.
Iain Cariaba
#12 - 2014-09-11 16:19:04 UTC
Congratulations, you won EvE.

Seriously, you once again realized that this is a game, and therefore supposed to be fun. Personally, this moment came for me when I realized I was paying CCP every month to work a second job.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-09-11 16:52:17 UTC
Eve is a game. A game should be fun. Worrying about stuff like isk efficiency is fun for some people. Not me!
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#14 - 2014-09-11 17:09:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tinu Moorhsum
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Reminds me of a talk I had with an alliance recruiter yesterday. Told me we'd need to polish up our stats if we were to join them. He literally admitted he would get flak for losing expensive stuff. These guys don't hold sov, don't hold space assets and have nothing to lose. They just (hot)drop people. So I asked what practical purpose it would serve to improve our KB. Turns out there's no such thing, it's just about prestige and being able to link other people a webpage that says 98% effiency. I'm to pragmatic to care.


They don't deserve you. I'd rather have swinging dicks in space that were fully committed to making a kill any day than to fly with a bunch of people who were worried about losing a ship.

We fight guys like that all the time. They run. We don't.

We win.

T-

P.S. as both a fleet member as a fleet coordinator running is frustrating. As a fleet commander, If people in your fleet are running away you don't know what you *really* have to fight with and as a fleet member, a doubting FC who is non comittal and playing the "warp-here, warp-there" game ad nauseum soon goes from "manoeuvring" to wasting your time. INIT were like that. Sister Bliss was an epic FC when it came to moving around the field but he would never take a fight he couldn't win. It was so frustrating.

T-
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-09-11 17:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Petre en Thielles
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Reminds me of a talk I had with an alliance recruiter yesterday. Told me we'd need to polish up our stats if we were to join them. He literally admitted he would get flak for losing expensive stuff. These guys don't hold sov, don't hold space assets and have nothing to lose. They just (hot)drop people. So I asked what practical purpose it would serve to improve our KB. Turns out there's no such thing, it's just about prestige and being able to link other people a webpage that says 98% effiency. I'm to pragmatic to care.


They don't deserve you. I'd rather have swinging dicks in space that were fully committed to making a kill any day than to fly with a bunch of people who were worried about losing a ship.

We fight guys like that all the time. They run. We don't.

We win.

T-

P.S. as both a fleet member as a fleet coordinator running is frustrating. As a fleet commander, If people in your fleet are running away you don't know what you *really* have to fight with and as a fleet member, a doubting FC who is non comittal and playing the "warp-here, warp-there" game ad nauseum soon goes from "manoeuvring" to wasting your time. INIT were like that. Sister Bliss was an epic FC when it came to moving around the field but he would never take a fight he couldn't win. It was so frustrating.

T-


There are no 'swinging dicks in space'. This is a video game, not anything real where egos matter. Get rid of the elitist attitude and you might have a better time.

Also, if I read your killboard correctly, I am not sure how seriously to take you.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#16 - 2014-09-11 17:31:43 UTC
Petre en Thielles wrote:


That is completely different.

You sound like you fight to have fun. Not to arbitrarily keep numbers higher. Someone who fights to win is great. Someone who fights for KB stats is the guy who goes to shoot miners over and over for a month to bump up their killboards.

There are also no 'swinging dicks in space'. This is a video game, not anything real where egos matter. Get rid of the elitist attitude and you might have a better time.


I'm making the paradigm shift but evidently I'm not all the way there yet. ;)

T-
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-09-11 18:15:22 UTC
I like to focus more on 'fun'. That being said, I'm not as rich as a lot of people, so I do try to be at least a little careful. I have been known to get myself into stupid situations that I should be in, and die because of it. (This actually happened just yesterday) We had a good time, and that to me is more important, but we did lose some less than cheap ships, which kinda sucked. Already replaced em, but I'd rather not do it too often. As I get slowly more space rich comfortable though, my definition of 'unnecessary losses' is increasing in ISK value.

At the end of the day, Fun is most important. Isk efficiency can certainly help with producing more Fun in the future, so it isn't a bad thing. I just don't think you should sacrifice fun in the name of Isk efficiency.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-09-11 18:29:13 UTC
Petre en Thielles wrote:

There are no 'swinging dicks in space'. This is a video game, not anything real where egos matter. Get rid of the elitist attitude and you might have a better time.

Also, if I read your killboard correctly, I am not sure how seriously to take you.

Do me a favor, and define "anything real".

Be sure to tell that first part to any sports team (or fan thereof), and let me know how it goes for you. They toss a ball, and we toss pixelated space bullets; that doesn't mean that the impacts on the human psyche, and therefore the human ego, are much (if any) different. The fact that their game happens to have "real" money involved (I'll spare you the Monopoly money/fiat currency rant), doesn't change how a competitive individual will view the potential outcomes.
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-09-11 18:39:42 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Petre en Thielles wrote:

There are no 'swinging dicks in space'. This is a video game, not anything real where egos matter. Get rid of the elitist attitude and you might have a better time.

Also, if I read your killboard correctly, I am not sure how seriously to take you.

Do me a favor, and define "anything real".

Be sure to tell that first part to any sports team (or fan thereof), and let me know how it goes for you. They toss a ball, and we toss pixelated space bullets; that doesn't mean that the impacts on the human psyche, and therefore the human ego, are much (if any) different. The fact that their game happens to have "real" money involved (I'll spare you the Monopoly money/fiat currency rant), doesn't change how a competitive individual will view the potential outcomes.


We don't "toss" anything. We press buttons on a computer. There are no consequences for failure. A lost battle does not involve any real life dollars.

If losing a fight in a video game 'impacts your psyche', then you have bigger problems. Look - I am competitive. I like winning, but if a person's ego is so big that it impacts their 'psyche' when they lose a video game, they need to spend less time online and more time working on personal maturity.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#20 - 2014-09-11 18:42:46 UTC
Good on you OP. I don't care much for ISK efficiency, in that I will engage against odds. I don't go out of my way to fly pimped or even max efficiency ships. My goal is to fly what I want and see what happens.

If I wanted even remote efficiency I wouldn't fly solo the majority of the time.

Eve is much more fun if you just do what you want.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
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