These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A Reminder Regarding Real Life Harassment

First post First post First post
Author
Pleistarchus Shikkoken
Doomheim
#421 - 2014-09-11 16:37:58 UTC
Titus Tallang wrote:
CCP Falcon,

can we expect some clear-cut rules on what you would classify as 'real life harassment'?




Use common sense ******* Ugh
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#422 - 2014-09-11 16:42:27 UTC
Rabe Raptor wrote:
You can be happy all you want for some bonus room dudes getting banned; I imagine a lot of people wanted them gone. The measure of fuss that's going on over the blanket bans for "real life harassment" is that many of the players who were banned had nothing to do with it and were banned anyways (without warning).


Yes, I am sure the folks at CCP sat around trying to figure out ways to ban players who did nothing. Next you will tell us that they hate money or that you have a girlfriend IRL.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#423 - 2014-09-11 16:45:19 UTC
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
Rabe Raptor wrote:
You can be happy all you want for some bonus room dudes getting banned; I imagine a lot of people wanted them gone. The measure of fuss that's going on over the blanket bans for "real life harassment" is that many of the players who were banned had nothing to do with it and were banned anyways (without warning).


Yes, I am sure the folks at CCP sat around trying to figure out ways to ban players who did nothing.


It probably wasn't intentional, but it has been happening more frequently.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

evepal
Scholar of Rationality
#424 - 2014-09-11 16:46:55 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
Rabe Raptor wrote:
You can be happy all you want for some bonus room dudes getting banned; I imagine a lot of people wanted them gone. The measure of fuss that's going on over the blanket bans for "real life harassment" is that many of the players who were banned had nothing to do with it and were banned anyways (without warning).


Yes, I am sure the folks at CCP sat around trying to figure out ways to ban players who did nothing.


It probably wasn't intentional, but it has been happening more frequently.


Source/citation needed.
CCP Falcon
#425 - 2014-09-11 16:57:14 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Falcon
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Of course, it is easier to whine about the 'grey areas' then to actually help CCP remove them.


It also seems that it's very easy to whine about being banned rather than using a shred of common sense to maintain the most basic level of decency and etiquette when interacting with people in EVE.

Yes, EVE is designed to be harsh and unforgiving, but there's a blatant difference between that and outright harassment.

Those people who're saying that the lines are blurred and they don't understand the definition of harassment are looking for clarification so that they know how much they can bend the rules and push the boundaries before we'll take action, with a view to using any statement we make as ammunition for an appeal should they fall foul of the rules and be slapped with account action.

Sorry, but my original statement still stands. CCP will use best judgement on a case by case basis to ensure that real life harassment is kept out of EVE Online.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#426 - 2014-09-11 17:02:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CCP Falcon wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Of course, it is easier to whine about the 'grey areas' then to actually help CCP remove them.


It also seems that it's very easy to whine about being banned rather than using a shred of common sense to maintain the most basic level of decency and etiquette when interacting with people in EVE.

Yes, EVE is designed to be harsh and unforgiving, but there's a blatant difference between that and outright harassment.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. those people who're saying that the lines are blurred and they don't understand the definition of harassment are looking for clarification so that they know how much they can bend the rules and push the boundaries before we'll take action, with a view to using any statement we make as ammunition for an appeal should they fall foul of the rules and be slapped with account action.

Sorry, but my original statement still stands. CCP will use best judgement on a case by case basis to ensure that real life harassment is kept out of EVE Online.



Well, you probably need to use better judgement when it comes to doxxers then and show some consistency. Personally, I have no confusion where the line is. I saw it get crossed, on me, and CCP did nothing. However, I remain a customer with confidence that this statement you've made reflects your intentions to take harsh action against such incidences in the future.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#427 - 2014-09-11 17:09:36 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CCP Falcon wrote:
It also seems that it's very easy to whine about being banned rather than using a shred of common sense to maintain the most basic level of decency and etiquette when interacting with people in EVE.

Yes, EVE is designed to be harsh and unforgiving, but there's a blatant difference between that and outright harassment.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. those people who're saying that the lines are blurred and they don't understand the definition of harassment are looking for clarification so that they know how much they can bend the rules and push the boundaries before we'll take action, with a view to using any statement we make as ammunition for an appeal should they fall foul of the rules and be slapped with account action.

Sorry, but my original statement still stands. CCP will use best judgement on a case by case basis to ensure that real life harassment is kept out of EVE Online.
Well it's obviously not clear, since even your ToS claims that third party services are not covered by you. Honestly, why not just stick to what your rules say. If you think it's actually harassment, report it to the police.

And no, people looking for clarification are looking for you to actually define your rules rather than us just having to guess where the line is. You can go on about people gaming the system all you want, but people are going to do that anyway. Leaving the rules fuzzy as hell only opens up the floor to people with no intent of upsetting someone getting banned because a basement dwelling neckbeard can't handle being scammed out of his ship without exploding into a fit of tears.

Why not just slap up a notification that says "remember: TS3 servers have a 'disconnect' button." and be done with it, since that's what seems to be the problem here.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Anslo
Scope Works
#428 - 2014-09-11 17:11:37 UTC
What part of common sense and avoiding nerds skimming the ~line~ do you people not get? Hurr it's a gaem so we can hurt peepulz n itz okae cuz itz not in da TAWS durr.

Get over it, Christ.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#429 - 2014-09-11 17:12:43 UTC
Pleistarchus Shikkoken wrote:
Titus Tallang wrote:
CCP Falcon,

can we expect some clear-cut rules on what you would classify as 'real life harassment'?




Use common sense ******* Ugh


Do you realise that all of the actions these groups partake in are bannable in most other MMOs. Common sense needs a frame of reference and there's just nothing like eve.
Mizhir
TOP DAMAGE Ltd.
WE FORM V0LTA
#430 - 2014-09-11 17:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CCP Falcon wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Of course, it is easier to whine about the 'grey areas' then to actually help CCP remove them.


It also seems that it's very easy to whine about being banned rather than using a shred of common sense to maintain the most basic level of decency and etiquette when interacting with people in EVE.

Yes, EVE is designed to be harsh and unforgiving, but there's a blatant difference between that and outright harassment.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. those people who're saying that the lines are blurred and they don't understand the definition of harassment are looking for clarification so that they know how much they can bend the rules and push the boundaries before we'll take action, with a view to using any statement we make as ammunition for an appeal should they fall foul of the rules and be slapped with account action.

Sorry, but my original statement still stands. CCP will use best judgement on a case by case basis to ensure that real life harassment is kept out of EVE Online.



Great answer.

I hope this gets resolved in a manner that benefits the community.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#431 - 2014-09-11 17:25:37 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:

Why not just slap up a notification that says "remember: TS3 servers have a 'disconnect' button." and be done with it, since that's what seems to be the problem here.


There is also a button to terminate your subscription to the game if you do nto like the policy they have or the way they decide to enforce them so you can be done with it.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#432 - 2014-09-11 17:26:23 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Yeah the anti ganking crowd is excited that CCP banned a bunch of gankers. They don't give two cents if it was for RL harassment or just on a whim. All they care is that's less gankers in the game.

If CCP doesn't want to say what is bannable and what is not then at least say what these people were banned for.

Bonus room I got it... Just don't do it! Smack talk in local? Ransoming ships or pods? Sending Eve mails to pilots you destroy?

The only reason all the carebears say "Oh you should know what is and what's not" is because the only thing they shoot are NPC crosses. I don't think an NPC will cry harassment
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#433 - 2014-09-11 17:28:36 UTC
Jin Kugu wrote:
Pleistarchus Shikkoken wrote:
Titus Tallang wrote:
CCP Falcon,

can we expect some clear-cut rules on what you would classify as 'real life harassment'?




Use common sense ******* Ugh


Do you realise that all of the actions these groups partake in are bannable in most other MMOs. Common sense needs a frame of reference and there's just nothing like eve.


Of course. This is what has always separated games like WoW from Eve
Anslo
Scope Works
#434 - 2014-09-11 17:28:53 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
IIshira wrote:
Yeah the anti ganking crowd is excited that CCP banned a bunch of gankers. They don't give two cents if it was for RL harassment or just on a whim. All they care is that's less gankers in the game.

If CCP doesn't want to say what is bannable and what is not then at least say what these people were banned for.

Bonus room I got it... Just don't do it! Smack talk in local? Ransoming ships or pods? Sending Eve mails to pilots you destroy?

The only reason all the carebears say "Oh you should know what is and what's not" is because the only thing they shoot are NPC crosses. I don't think an NPC will cry harassment


No it's because an adult with good intentions know's what it is and is not.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#435 - 2014-09-11 17:31:18 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
The information we have so far from Ero on this latest round of bans is very disconcerting.

We will update as more information becomes available.

F

Hmmm. I may actually start recommending Eve Online to friends now that CCP seems to be taking a serious stand against harassment and grief play. Thanks for sharing.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Dave Stark
#436 - 2014-09-11 17:36:18 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CCP Falcon wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Of course, it is easier to whine about the 'grey areas' then to actually help CCP remove them.


It also seems that it's very easy to whine about being banned rather than using a shred of common sense to maintain the most basic level of decency and etiquette when interacting with people in EVE.

Yes, EVE is designed to be harsh and unforgiving, but there's a blatant difference between that and outright harassment.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. those people who're saying that the lines are blurred and they don't understand the definition of harassment are looking for clarification so that they know how much they can bend the rules and push the boundaries before we'll take action, with a view to using any statement we make as ammunition for an appeal should they fall foul of the rules and be slapped with account action.

Sorry, but my original statement still stands. CCP will use best judgement on a case by case basis to ensure that real life harassment is kept out of EVE Online.



we do understand the definition of harassment. most of eve's activities fall under that definition.
hence why we're asking for clarification.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#437 - 2014-09-11 17:40:10 UTC
Closed for a quick clean.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#438 - 2014-09-11 20:29:52 UTC
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
Closed for a quick clean.
Quick he said! Tsk,,,,,

Anyway, ISD Dorrim Barstorlode had to do some RL things and as to not harass him, I volunteered to take over.

I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them (and edited some others). As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.


5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


11. Discussion of warnings and bans is prohibited.
(Only applied to specific named bans in this case. ISD Ezwal.)

Such matters shall remain private between CCP and the involved user. Questions or comments concerning warnings and bans will be conveyed through email or private messaging. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy and as such you are not permitted to publicize private correspondence (including support ticket responses and emails) received from any member of CCP staff.


27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.


30. Posts that distort the forum layout are prohibited.

Posts that are deliberately designed to distort the layout of the EVE Online forums, or character names that are of an inappropriate length and stretch the forums will be removed. This kind of behavior is deemed as being in opposition to the community spirit that CCP would like to promote, and posts of this nature will be deleted. Users who engage in this type of behavior may face temporary suspension or permanent revocation of their forum posting privileges.


31. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.

CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, “outing” of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.


Thread re-opened.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#439 - 2014-09-11 20:37:09 UTC
This thread

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

J'Poll
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#440 - 2014-09-11 20:59:22 UTC
Absolutely Not Analt wrote:
Handsome Feller wrote:
Jin Kugu wrote:
Can you harass someone in real life if you don't know who that person is in real life?


If you've ever been on the receiving end of some persistent & aggressive telephone marketing, you'd know the (obvious) answer to this.


The last telephone marketer to call my house got this reponse:

*phone rings - the number pops up on my caller id as unknown, so I roll my eyes*
Hello, who is this?
My name is XXXX with YYYY and I'd like...
How did you get this number?
What?
This is a classified number registered to the NSA. I need to speak to your supervisor immediately. You will also need to remain at your present location until agents arrive to question you.
*click*
:smug:




Love that one, going to steal it.



Though, during my internship in the US I got a phone from the company I was doing my internship, they just said if someone called me that I didn't know, just talk Dutch to them till they hang up (number was pre-owned by a former employee, so they didn't know how many people still called that number).

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club