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A Reminder Regarding Real Life Harassment

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Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#401 - 2014-09-11 16:09:01 UTC
Lots of people who had nothing to do with bonus room got banned for "real life harassment" with no response from CCP

Together we can make Highsec a better place! www.lawofhighsec.com

Read it, share it, learn it, quote it, memorize it,  live it, breathe it!
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#402 - 2014-09-11 16:09:38 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
the banned players don't understand what it is they did to get banned


Well it's possible they could all be innocent.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#403 - 2014-09-11 16:13:18 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
the banned players don't understand what it is they did to get banned


Well it's possible they could all be innocent.



I'm sure those players could make that determination if they were told what it is they did wrong..

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#404 - 2014-09-11 16:17:36 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:


Well it's general, but it's also their prerogative. If in doubt err on the side of caution, or, well, no one is forcing you to stick around.

I had some sympathy with the Ero1 thing as there was a lot of hysteria and run up to the actual ban, but these seem to be bans come out of their internal process, presumably working in a similar same that is has for years (doubt these were the first to be banned for being scummers). Are we going through this for every ban now?



How about I stick around and continue to engage in civil dialog for CCP to provide a better outline of what is considered banworthy behavior?

The low resolution of the EULA as it stands may be to your liking, but it appears there is some disruption in communication between CCP and its players since the banned players don't understand what it is they did to get banned. Some of this is posturing (cue NBA references) but some of it is actual confusion.


I don't think a lack of communication is a good thing for any company. It's certainly toxic to the spirit of the game, which has been clearly advertised by CCP in this forum and on public media.


I like your fake concern for the company more than anything else.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#405 - 2014-09-11 16:22:22 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
the banned players don't understand what it is they did to get banned


Well it's possible they could all be innocent.



I'm sure those players could make that determination if they were told what it is they did wrong..



Yes and historically said people will be quite forthcoming and honest about what happened. Perhaps they should all , as a group, waver their rights to privacy and ask a GM/DEV to openly state and discuss what really happened.

Yes/no?
Anslo
Scope Works
#406 - 2014-09-11 16:22:38 UTC
Can someone tl;dr what the hell's going on?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#407 - 2014-09-11 16:24:48 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Can someone tl;dr what the hell's going on?


CCP banned a bunch of guys that continued on with the bonus room thing. In their infinite wisdom or just out of sheer laziness, they banned everyone in the bonus room channel whether they participated or not.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Anslo
Scope Works
#408 - 2014-09-11 16:25:19 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Can someone tl;dr what the hell's going on?


CCP banned a bunch of guys that continued on with the bonus room thing. In their infinite wisdom or just out of sheer laziness, they banned everyone in the bonus room channel whether they participated or not.


Oh. Welp, gf. Thanks o/

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#409 - 2014-09-11 16:26:58 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Can someone tl;dr what the hell's going on?


CCP banned a bunch of guys that continued on with the bonus room thing. In their infinite wisdom or just out of sheer laziness, they banned everyone in the bonus room channel whether they participated or not.


And it was correct of CCP to do so. One does not hang out in these channels just by accident.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#410 - 2014-09-11 16:30:06 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Can someone tl;dr what the hell's going on?


CCP banned a bunch of guys that continued on with the bonus room thing. In their infinite wisdom or just out of sheer laziness, they banned everyone in the bonus room channel whether they participated or not.


And it was correct of CCP to do so. One does not hang out in these channels just by accident.


Please direct us all to the point in the EULA/TOS or in anything that Falcon has said where hanging out with friends in chat channels is against the rules. It would be much appreciated, thank you.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
JEFFRAIDER
THIGH GUYS
#411 - 2014-09-11 16:30:33 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Titus Tallang wrote:
can we expect some clear-cut rules on what you would classify as 'real life harassment'?


It isn't our job to dictate to people how to maintain a base standard of human decency toward one another, and we're not going to do so.

The bottom line is that it's down to members of the community to know where the line crosses from common decency to harassment. We will not draw a line in the sand so that people can skirt on the edge of it and bend the rules as much as possible.

This isn't a debate about what constitutes "harassment". If you're not familiar with the word, find the definition in a dictionary and that will satisfy your question.

What we will do, is continue to use best judgement on a case by case basis to ensure that real life harassment is kept out of the game, and ensure that those who choose to involve themselves in such activities are no longer permitted to be part of our community.

Cut and dried, that's all we have to say on the matter.


Very nicely done.
Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#412 - 2014-09-11 16:30:58 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Can someone tl;dr what the hell's going on?


CCP banned a bunch of guys that continued on with the bonus room thing. In their infinite wisdom or just out of sheer laziness, they banned everyone in the bonus room channel whether they participated or not.


And it was correct of CCP to do so. One does not hang out in these channels just by accident.


Actually the Teamspeak in question is a hangout for all sorts of players, many who have nothing to do with any of the bonus room or CODE or any of it. Some random null guys got banned, some random FW guys got banned.. lol

CCP won't respond to it either.

Together we can make Highsec a better place! www.lawofhighsec.com

Read it, share it, learn it, quote it, memorize it,  live it, breathe it!
Anslo
Scope Works
#413 - 2014-09-11 16:31:10 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Can someone tl;dr what the hell's going on?


CCP banned a bunch of guys that continued on with the bonus room thing. In their infinite wisdom or just out of sheer laziness, they banned everyone in the bonus room channel whether they participated or not.


And it was correct of CCP to do so. One does not hang out in these channels just by accident.


Please direct us all to the point in the EULA/TOS or in anything that Falcon has said where hanging out with friends in chat channels is against the rules. It would be much appreciated, thank you.

Cause if it's not 100% worded in the EULA/TOS, then it's tots OK no matter how much it might screw someone up or hurt them amirite guise? It's just ~content~, yeah?~~

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#414 - 2014-09-11 16:31:42 UTC
I would really like to see a dev blog that shows how much stuff was frozen in these banned accounts. I bet it would be hilarious.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#415 - 2014-09-11 16:32:00 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Can someone tl;dr what the hell's going on?


CCP banned a bunch of guys that continued on with the bonus room thing. In their infinite wisdom or just out of sheer laziness, they banned everyone in the bonus room channel whether they participated or not.


And it was correct of CCP to do so. One does not hang out in these channels just by accident.


You're right sometimes you get invited to a channel & then wonder what it actually is months later. You're also wrong, if you're assumed guilty because of the people who happen to be in your channel/corp/alliance/mailing list then everyone in EVE has reason for concern.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Anslo
Scope Works
#416 - 2014-09-11 16:32:21 UTC
JEFFRAIDER wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Titus Tallang wrote:
can we expect some clear-cut rules on what you would classify as 'real life harassment'?


It isn't our job to dictate to people how to maintain a base standard of human decency toward one another, and we're not going to do so.

The bottom line is that it's down to members of the community to know where the line crosses from common decency to harassment. We will not draw a line in the sand so that people can skirt on the edge of it and bend the rules as much as possible.

This isn't a debate about what constitutes "harassment". If you're not familiar with the word, find the definition in a dictionary and that will satisfy your question.

What we will do, is continue to use best judgement on a case by case basis to ensure that real life harassment is kept out of the game, and ensure that those who choose to involve themselves in such activities are no longer permitted to be part of our community.

Cut and dried, that's all we have to say on the matter.


Very nicely done.


HAIL JEFFRAIDER

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#417 - 2014-09-11 16:33:38 UTC
You can be happy all you want for some bonus room dudes getting banned; I imagine a lot of people wanted them gone. The measure of fuss that's going on over the blanket bans for "real life harassment" is that many of the players who were banned had nothing to do with it and were banned anyways (without warning).

Together we can make Highsec a better place! www.lawofhighsec.com

Read it, share it, learn it, quote it, memorize it,  live it, breathe it!
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#418 - 2014-09-11 16:34:51 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Can someone tl;dr what the hell's going on?


CCP banned a bunch of guys that continued on with the bonus room thing. In their infinite wisdom or just out of sheer laziness, they banned everyone in the bonus room channel whether they participated or not.


And it was correct of CCP to do so. One does not hang out in these channels just by accident.


Please direct us all to the point in the EULA/TOS or in anything that Falcon has said where hanging out with friends in chat channels is against the rules. It would be much appreciated, thank you.

Cause if it's not 100% worded in the EULA/TOS, then it's tots OK no matter how much it might screw someone up or hurt them amirite guise? It's just ~content~, yeah?~~


WHOOSH!!!

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
evepal
Scholar of Rationality
#419 - 2014-09-11 16:36:11 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Rabe Raptor wrote:
You can be happy all you want for some bonus room dudes getting banned; I imagine a lot of people wanted them gone. The measure of fuss that's going on over the blanket bans for "real life harassment" is that many of the players who were banned had nothing to do with it and were banned anyways (without warning).


Seeing as posting evidence of this would violate the EULA, this is only built upon speculation. Speculation people build slippery slope fallacies upon, and then take it into the realm of strawman and division fallacy. Couple of ad hominems in there, too!

*Snip* Removed reply to deleted posts. ISD Ezwal.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#420 - 2014-09-11 16:36:17 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:


Why do you continue to play and financially support a company that allows such things?




This is a good question.


My answer would be that this game seems to thrive on company-player dialog moreso than any other game. The players have a constant hope that such a dialog is meaningful, and that CCP is the type of company to have one with its players.


That conversation ended over here. But you also make a very valid point. Yes, indeed, I would love to see CCP step up and have a real dialog with us about this.


While I cannot even pretend to know your motive for asking for such discussion as I do not know you enough, the fact of the matter is CCP will not have this discussion because they know very well anything they say will be pushed to the very imaginable limit by people to justify doing something and try to make people feel CCP's action were wrong.

At the end of the day tho, what really surprise me the most about all of this is how people get bent out of shape over CCP's ruling stuff based on their gut feeling when the whole company is run based on gut feelings. People are all happy when CCP decide to make stuff in one way instead of the other because they feel like it and then the very same people get angry when CCP make a decision based on how they feel.

CCP are right to follow their gut feeling and keep their main product in a rather small niche market. This is awesome that they do not bend to corporate greed and just go with how they feel the game should be but that same niche playerbase should definately get exactly what it demand and not what CCP feel it should get. Nah at that point, them following their though instead of what some other people ask for is wrong now.