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Increase C4 site income

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MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2014-09-10 14:08:35 UTC
I think that adding some sort of escalation mechanic to C1-4 sites COULD be good if implemented correctly. I would certainly ask that this wave should point the target at a minimum to encourage pvp and make it riskier to run in static. In a perfect system it would use other EWAR as well, since web/neut are pretty common in wormhole sites, and this escalation should be difficult.

Further, I would be interested to know if you could make multiple layouts of anoms that display the same name. Basically my point is that once people know exactly where the spawns are, it makes farming easy/fast/boring. If it could be more randomized, then there would at least be some variation to the site running. This would mostly just be variation in the locations of spawns, though bringing in a small chance to spawn a powerful NPC might also make things "interesting".

I don't know if this second idea is possible given Eve's backbone, but it was a concept I had. Borsek's gotten to the point where he doesn't even have to spawn rats to make the warp-to-zeros for escalations, and I'm jealous. Nerf Borsek.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.
HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2014-09-10 14:17:45 UTC
Remove Capital Escalations ! And suddenly order was restored.

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#63 - 2014-09-10 14:20:19 UTC
Kynric wrote:
corbexx wrote:

On the escalation wave I'm not to keen on cap escalation in lower class wh's. but do like the idea of a mini escalation.


I think escalations are part of the problem rather than the solution as they encourage staying at home and barring the doors rather than farming the static.

Instead of adding escalations why not add some faction spawns (with possible faction drops, it doesnt matter if it is modules, subsystems, implants or even deployables as long as it is something that has market value) that sometimes occur upon site completion. When my team does sites in null we get much more excited about some random pirate bpc, x-type, whatever than we ever did about an unusually high nano ribbon count, others probably find the rare drops fun as well. To balance the change remove / reduce to metal scraps the salvage on the current capital escalation waves; retain the blue books which is where most of the isk is.

Net effect on isk for upperclass wormholes could be more or less neutral as faction bits replace what is lost from salvage. It would also lead to more emphasis on completing the site rather than using it as an ongoing spawn trigger. Down chain farming more be more attractive which is much better than the current behavior of wishing for sites at home and not being interested in anything outside of home. For lower class wormholes it would help both by adding drops and by increased prices on nano ribbons due to scarcity.


Why not combine the ideas ? If you bring 6 capitals (c5 and c6), battleships (c4) and so on.. into site you spawn a single npc that is equivilant to the frigs in burner missions and scale according to the ships needed to spawn it. It drops a very avarage value blue loot and salvage but has the "chance" of dropping some rare sleeper modules/ammo bpc.

If done correct: This will increase ships on field doing sites, amount of people doing it throughout wormholespace, it will fix the income in lower classes and also make use of ccp's new mechanics and npc systems.

~Bringer of happiness

http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
Maduin Shi
MAGA Inc
#64 - 2014-09-10 15:09:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Maduin Shi
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:

Further, I would be interested to know if you could make multiple layouts of anoms that display the same name. Basically my point is that once people know exactly where the spawns are, it makes farming easy/fast/boring. If it could be more randomized, then there would at least be some variation to the site running. This would mostly just be variation in the locations of spawns, though bringing in a small chance to spawn a powerful NPC might also make things "interesting".


Some more Diablo-style randomized grids with some change up in where things spawn and what spawns would be awesome and is now relatively convenient to adapt to thanks to the mobile depot. Its probably too much to ask for but "terrain" effects on ship performance (nebulae, nearby spatial objects like sleeper constructs, etc) would make the old sites like new again if executed well. Especially if their locations were also randomized. It would spark some rather creative fits to suit the environment.

Yes to scram/web if mini-escalation (mimick siege/triage).
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#65 - 2014-09-10 15:19:07 UTC
Sites in static are much more interesting than sites at home because each day gifts a new static while a run down home can remain so for a long time. Also sites in the static take a bit more daring and are more likely to result in interactions with the community than anything done within the home fortresses which we construct. As such, whatever changes are made it seems greatly preferable to move toward activities which can be done down chain rather than requiring a large menagerie such as 2 dreads, 2 carriers, a boost boat and support to move about.
Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
#66 - 2014-09-10 16:11:18 UTC
Worth noting there was a discussion of this on the last recorded DTP that brought some interesting viewpoints.

I believe Bronya said it would be around in a week or so.

Public Channel | Un.Welcome
HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2014-09-10 16:35:39 UTC
I m gonna put this discussion forward.


Burner Npc*Fleet + Wormhole Space = Profit


"There have been reports of wierd sighting on Directional Scanners about fast moving fleets, that are traveling from Wormhole to Wormhole. The Rumors about Raiding Parties of the Notorious Sansha Nation are not confirmed and pure speculation at this point. Although many Capsuleer Distress Calls from the Class 4 Region have been reported there was 0 confirmation as for noone ever survived such a raid."

Involving Gamerules / Mechanics:
- Combat Scanning
- Advanced understanding of the rules and ranges of engagement
- Overheating may be mandatory as it is helpful with current burners
- Multiple areas of engagement (Asteriod Fields, Posses, Safespots, Wormholes)
- They use wormholes
- Advanced Electronic Warfare and Remote Reps (not huge EHP)
- NO CAPITALS!

Loot:
Worth it.

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2014-09-10 16:46:33 UTC  |  Edited by: HerrBert
HerrBert wrote:
I m gonna put this discussion forward.


Burner Npc*Fleet + Wormhole Space = Profit


"There have been reports of wierd sighting on Directional Scanners about fast moving fleets, that are traveling from Wormhole to Wormhole. The Rumors about Raiding Parties of the Notorious Sansha Nation are not confirmed and pure speculation at this point. Although many Capsuleer Distress Calls from the Class 4 Region have been reported there was 0 confirmation as for noone ever survived such a raid."

Involving Gamerules / Mechanics:
- Combat Scanning
- Advanced understanding of the rules and ranges of engagement
- Overheating may be mandatory as it is helpful with current burners
- Multiple areas of engagement (Asteriod Fields, Posses, Safespots, Wormholes)
- They use wormholes
- Advanced Electronic Warfare and Remote Reps (not huge EHP)
- NO CAPITALS!

Loot:
Worth it.



Counter Mechanic to Capitals: "They warp off as soon as it is within 5 au dscan range"


If capital on dscan = true
do ecm burst
while warping off
end

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#69 - 2014-09-10 16:47:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Obil Que
Want to make a big impact?

Consider changes where content that *can* be solo'ed doesn't have its rewards nerfed into the ground when people join together. Since C1 and C2 sites (even C3 or C4 with the right skills) can be solo'ed, it is difficult to encourage participation in groups to band together to run the sites because each individual immediately takes a cut of half, or a third, or a quarter of their income just to "be nice" and have people join up with them.

This is a general EVE PvE issue vs. one specifically related to wormhole income but they go hand in hand.

I'd also agree that anything that can increase sleeper salvage values (T3 modules, T3 frigates, T3 materials rebalancing) is a big positive to income though new content would go a long way to improving the residence rates in wormhole space
Marox Calendale
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2014-09-10 17:04:01 UTC
HerrBert wrote:
I m gonna put this discussion forward.


Burner Npc*Fleet + Wormhole Space = Profit


"There have been reports of wierd sighting on Directional Scanners about fast moving fleets, that are traveling from Wormhole to Wormhole. The Rumors about Raiding Parties of the Notorious Sansha Nation are not confirmed and pure speculation at this point. Although many Capsuleer Distress Calls from the Class 4 Region have been reported there was 0 confirmation as for noone ever survived such a raid."

Involving Gamerules / Mechanics:
- Combat Scanning
- Advanced understanding of the rules and ranges of engagement
- Overheating may be mandatory as it is helpful with current burners
- Multiple areas of engagement (Asteriod Fields, Posses, Safespots, Wormholes)
- They use wormholes
- Advanced Electronic Warfare and Remote Reps (not huge EHP)
- NO CAPITALS!

Loot:
Worth it.

I was already thinking about burner sites for J-Space, but Burner fleets are a way better! That´s a really great idea.
HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2014-09-10 17:19:55 UTC  |  Edited by: HerrBert
Marox Calendale wrote:
HerrBert wrote:
I m gonna put this discussion forward.


Burner Npc*Fleet + Wormhole Space = Profit


"There have been reports of wierd sighting on Directional Scanners about fast moving fleets, that are traveling from Wormhole to Wormhole. The Rumors about Raiding Parties of the Notorious Sansha Nation are not confirmed and pure speculation at this point. Although many Capsuleer Distress Calls from the Class 4 Region have been reported there was 0 confirmation as for noone ever survived such a raid."

Involving Gamerules / Mechanics:
- Combat Scanning
- Advanced understanding of the rules and ranges of engagement
- Overheating may be mandatory as it is helpful with current burners
- Multiple areas of engagement (Asteriod Fields, Posses, Safespots, Wormholes)
- They use wormholes
- Advanced Electronic Warfare and Remote Reps (not huge EHP)
- NO CAPITALS!

Loot:
Worth it.

I was already thinking about burner sites for J-Space, but Burner fleets are a way better! That´s a really great idea.



I m trying to convince myself not to be as bitter, so I have hopes for Fozzies new killing machines. I bet its not a one trick pony like the Covert Research Facilities.

Although they would need more refined rules to make the "scaling" resonable. Something CCP lately got kinda "okay" by heavily limiting "activities" to certain spaces. Which in wormholes gets kinda "hard" since everybody wants Pie. But Limiting such Burners to a class only while they of course may dip in to the static to peak around... would be more benificial then an overarching concept lapping across all class with no scaling or with higher payouts in higher classes.

TlDR: Class 4 only (as example) because Wormhole space deserves more layers to it, then just capital escaltions and no capital escalations.

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
Odin Skydiver
Alexylva Paradox
#72 - 2014-09-11 13:50:07 UTC
How about if blue loot gets multiplied by how many players are in fleet doing the site? That way solo income stays the same if that's the issue.
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#73 - 2014-09-11 14:14:14 UTC
Odin Skydiver wrote:
How about if blue loot gets multiplied by how many players are in fleet doing the site? That way solo income stays the same if that's the issue.


PI Alt brigade in Reapers reporting for duty.
Odin Skydiver
Alexylva Paradox
#74 - 2014-09-11 15:02:11 UTC
Kynric wrote:
Odin Skydiver wrote:
How about if blue loot gets multiplied by how many players are in fleet doing the site? That way solo income stays the same if that's the issue.


PI Alt brigade in Reapers reporting for duty.


They use dummy fleets in incursion sites already and I was thinking something like that you need to be at sleeper shooting range.
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#75 - 2014-09-11 15:15:56 UTC
Kynric wrote:
Odin Skydiver wrote:
How about if blue loot gets multiplied by how many players are in fleet doing the site? That way solo income stays the same if that's the issue.


PI Alt brigade in Reapers reporting for duty.


Better: Zephyrs
Odin Skydiver
Alexylva Paradox
#76 - 2014-09-11 16:03:16 UTC
Obil Que wrote:
Kynric wrote:
Odin Skydiver wrote:
How about if blue loot gets multiplied by how many players are in fleet doing the site? That way solo income stays the same if that's the issue.


PI Alt brigade in Reapers reporting for duty.


Better: Zephyrs


Or even better: Pods.

How about it to work you would need to do damage to sleepers?
Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2014-09-11 16:24:55 UTC
Odin Skydiver wrote:
Obil Que wrote:
Kynric wrote:
Odin Skydiver wrote:
How about if blue loot gets multiplied by how many players are in fleet doing the site? That way solo income stays the same if that's the issue.


PI Alt brigade in Reapers reporting for duty.


Better: Zephyrs


Or even better: Pods.

How about it to work you would need to do damage to sleepers?



+1

Rewarding small groups is one of the biggest issues i see with low class PVE. I think its fair to say most people tend to / or end up flying solo in their T3 / marauder putting further strain on site availability, with a further knock on effect of needing to roll more often when the static runs out of sites.

I agree the main concern is manipulation of income with alts, but then I guess farmer John and his 10 alts is still putting himself at somewhat more risk by multi-boxing the fleet... I guess this is where apps like ISBoxer become more of a problem Ugh
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#78 - 2014-09-11 18:23:37 UTC
Odin Skydiver wrote:
Obil Que wrote:
Kynric wrote:
Odin Skydiver wrote:
How about if blue loot gets multiplied by how many players are in fleet doing the site? That way solo income stays the same if that's the issue.


PI Alt brigade in Reapers reporting for duty.


Better: Zephyrs


Or even better: Pods.

How about it to work you would need to do damage to sleepers?



Perhaps something where the "power" of the sleepers scales with the number of pilots on grid with rewards increasing simultaneously. Not just additional targets but X people = frigs upgrade to cruisers or cruisers to battleships? While I think this would address the "alt" problem (making the site very difficult for a single player with alts), I doubt the existing PvE engine can handle this kind of dynamics.