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A Reminder Regarding Real Life Harassment

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S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#281 - 2014-09-11 12:43:48 UTC
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 wrote:

I was told by a miner that was popped that he would find me, enter my house with a rifle and then shoot me in the head. FYI, it was a Ret under 30M. So yeah, knives cut both ways. (Oh he also threatened any and all immediate family) So my point of this is, people say a lot of things, but trying to group everyone together as on aspect is just wrong. I like to eat pie, cake is tolerable. But you don't see me trying to remove ice cream. Once I rode a pony.


Then you should understand why CCP doesn't draw a line and leave it as is.
This way they can hand some temp bans to some people and not permaban everyone :D
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#282 - 2014-09-11 12:45:35 UTC
Burneddi wrote:
Asking someone to sing a song or you'll pod them isn't harassment.

Coaxing someone to come on your comms, then blackmailing them
Well up to here they are the same thing.

Burneddi wrote:
and repeatedly attacking their real life persona is harassment.
And as for this, did people's real identities ever come into the bonus rooms? I've only listened to one fully and it was character names all around.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#283 - 2014-09-11 12:48:18 UTC
S'No Flake wrote:
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 wrote:

I was told by a miner that was popped that he would find me, enter my house with a rifle and then shoot me in the head. FYI, it was a Ret under 30M. So yeah, knives cut both ways. (Oh he also threatened any and all immediate family) So my point of this is, people say a lot of things, but trying to group everyone together as on aspect is just wrong. I like to eat pie, cake is tolerable. But you don't see me trying to remove ice cream. Once I rode a pony.


Then you should understand why CCP doesn't draw a line and leave it as is.
This way they can hand some temp bans to some people and not permaban everyone :D



And I guess this is why I am glad that my building has an armed doorman. I mean, heaven forbid that people steal pixels to get banned rather than something that would involve physical in life violent threats.

The Artist Formerly Known As AC. 

The terminal end of the digestive system. 

The Best CSM Candidate
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#284 - 2014-09-11 12:49:00 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
And as for this, did people's real identities ever come into the bonus rooms? I've only listened to one fully and it was character names all around.


You are forgetting the salient point.

Butthurt now constitutes "real life harm".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#285 - 2014-09-11 12:52:23 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I'm going to summarise what I know.

I know that making people sing on coms for ransom is allowed, because Sky Fighters did it to a CCP dev just last year with no consequences.

I know that people have been banned for similar acts of ransoming in the style of the much debated Bonus Room, under the heading of RL harassment.

I know that RL harassment via someone's RL email containing carefully dug-up personal information about a real person in the game and including threats against named RL family members is allowed, because CCP did nothing about it when exactly that happened to me.

So....

Where does that leave us? What assurance do I have, playing this game, that some weirdo isn't actually going to hunt down my family and hurt them because I removed his space pixels from his possession, CCP?


You have to understand something...
A lot of things are changing... every day, month, year... Laws are changing too.
When that stuff happened to you, probably CCP didn't have a precedence... they didn't have a 'law' for it.

When they temp-banned mittani, maybe not many people were doing/saying stupid stuff.
Maybe now, it's much worse than back then so, they made the punishment stronger.


I'll give you an example... When i was in my 3rd year at university, i did some stupid stuff.
Back then i believed it was cool ... i was young :P All that thing got me suspended for two weeks.
There was no law for that, police wasn't involved, etc.

If somebody would do the same thing today, after 12 years, in the worst case, they would end up in jail ... in a happy case, they will be expelled.

They were wrong, back then when they sent me home for 2 weeks or they are wrong today when they send people to jail for the same thing?
Mira Robinson
#286 - 2014-09-11 12:56:36 UTC
I guess taking your griefing to a third party client possibly being a bannable offense just chaps your ass, doesn't it?

I remember when ganking was ransoms and wrecks and loot.

Now it's about the tears. And the increasingly questionable means of obtaining them. Did you think CCP would never take notice?

And I'm not a complete carebear. I'm a regular reader and fan of Minerbumping.

Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.

It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#287 - 2014-09-11 12:57:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
S'No Flake wrote:
You have to understand something...
A lot of things are changing... every day, month, year... Laws are changing too.
When that stuff happened to you, probably CCP didn't have a precedence... they didn't have a 'law' for it.


CCP doesn't work on precedent, and things like doxxing for intimidation tend to be pretty cut and dried in online communities because it's toxic as ****. They don't need a precedent to say "whoa this is some ****** up ****", drop the banhammer and advise the other party to take it to law enforcement. There's a reason why something that'll get you a two week ban can get another guy a permanent/indefinite ban, and it all has to do with context, prior violations, and other such things.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Miles Parabellum
Core Collapse Inc
#288 - 2014-09-11 13:01:43 UTC
FleetWarp Ichoriya wrote:
I find it kinda funny how people are still trying to sell this psychopatic behavior as the regular scam.
He had no assets, no point in mocking him any further. Let him sing a song or two afterwards, fine.
However dragging on for hours is outright psychopathic and doesnt add anything to the game.

I am actually amused that so many people are like "hurr durr but nao game is not many worth of time for me, I fell of so unattracted towarish" and I am actually thinking if it might be better for eve to just have them leave. I mean scammers will be there forever, sure, and thats cool. Just a bit less people with problems distinguishing between in character harrassment and real life harassment when everything in-game wise is taken.
Some people obviously can not fathom the difference between destroying a ship in combat, a suicide gank,the regular scam and the teasing and harassment of the player behind the avatar for hours long when the scam is already over (all assets and ISK taken).

I find people asking for "the line" kinda creepy tbh. I am not sure if it is intentional trolling or the attitude for morality has gone downhill that far that they are really not able to tell the difference where the game starts to fade into reallife.


Well written. Especially the last paragraph.

This thread will probably live for quite a while yet, so I'll check in regularly to sample some sociopath/griefer tears. Those... Cumbledrorn ones are particularly delightful.
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#289 - 2014-09-11 13:04:43 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Cut and dried, that's all we have to say on the matter.
Thats probably why Eve has these issues. If you have rules, they should be clear to everyone. Ignoring this wont fix the big problem. Unclear rules give random actions.

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#290 - 2014-09-11 13:05:08 UTC
I play this game to ruin YOUR game.

Of course there needs to be a line. We never know which teamspeak conversation would push you to your breaking point and cause undue torment and distress.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Mira Robinson
#291 - 2014-09-11 13:11:17 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
I play this game to ruin YOUR game.

Of course there needs to be a line. We never know which teamspeak conversation would push you to your breaking point and cause undue torment and distress.

Don't lure victims to TS = No chance of undue torment and distress.

Sounds simple to me. Keep it 100% in-game.

Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.

It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#292 - 2014-09-11 13:12:14 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
I play this game to ruin YOUR game.

Of course there needs to be a line. We never know which teamspeak conversation would push you to your breaking point and cause undue torment and distress.

Don't lure victims to TS = No chance of undue torment and distress.

Sounds simple to me. Keep it 100% in-game.


Okay, no problem

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#293 - 2014-09-11 13:15:26 UTC
Mira Robinson wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
I play this game to ruin YOUR game.

Of course there needs to be a line. We never know which teamspeak conversation would push you to your breaking point and cause undue torment and distress.

Don't lure victims to TS = No chance of undue torment and distress.

Sounds simple to me. Keep it 100% in-game.


Sounds as if we're like real-life predators who lure victims with goodies.

We happen to be eve predators who lure victims with goodies, we need to know exactly when the fourth wall is broken and our actions become unacceptable.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#294 - 2014-09-11 13:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jin Kugu
S'No Flake wrote:


Well, you have two options then :)
1. leave now
2. try to find where the line is and CCP will make you leave.

In your place, i would choose 2. This will help out other players avoiding stepping on the same line Cool


Maybe these people should be banned for whatever happend vov

All I know is that ccp should be done with shady community management. Somer was handled clearly, why can't this be done in a similar fashion?

Instead we have CCP Falcon insulting people and mass indefinite bans without explanation.
FleetWarp Ichoriya
#295 - 2014-09-11 13:17:03 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Mira Robinson wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
I play this game to ruin YOUR game.

Of course there needs to be a line. We never know which teamspeak conversation would push you to your breaking point and cause undue torment and distress.

Don't lure victims to TS = No chance of undue torment and distress.

Sounds simple to me. Keep it 100% in-game.


Okay, no problem



No body is arguing that singransom is not legit. However dragging this on for hours when its already over with all assets and ISK taken that is not legit. Stay within the game, get all assets and ISK of the Avatar and stop after that!
Its over then, you simply can not get more money - there is no point in going any further. Everything after that point is just exploiting the naive or weaker mind of the player behind the avatar without any possibility of gaining and advantage or ingameitem and does have nothing to do with the game anymore!

Nothing sweeter than tears of tearcollectors. mhh yummy!
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#296 - 2014-09-11 13:18:45 UTC
Miles Parabellum wrote:
This thread will probably live for quite a while yet, so I'll check in regularly to sample some sociopath/griefer tears. Those... Cumbledrorn ones are particularly delightful.
Trying to sidestep the vastly superior understanding of the situation possessed by those who disagree with you by declaring their posts tears is just par for the course, but oh. Been a while since someone mentioned me by name while crying about what's been posted. Gives me a warm nostalgic feeling. Reminds me of the good old days, back when I didn't spend so much time rambling about the good old days. Thanks for that.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#297 - 2014-09-11 13:18:51 UTC
FleetWarp Ichoriya wrote:

No body is arguing that singransom is not legit.


Mira Robinson just did.

Why does your side feel compelled to lie about literally everything?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#298 - 2014-09-11 13:20:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Adrie Atticus
Black Pedro wrote:

I am not sure what your point here is. No one he is arguing that CCP can't do whatever it wants, define harassment however it wants, as well as ban anyone for any reason. The current discussion in this thread is that the way these rules are being enforced now is not clear, appears to be internally inconsistent, and is causing confusion, especially for those who have just been banned without even knowing which of their actions have crossed CCP's line.

You can take a look at Erotica 1's commentary if you need to get up to speed on the current discussion:

https://imgur.com/EtfsmXj


I did read it and all I still see is an individual arguing technicalities about the intent of the "bonus room" withotu acknowledging that some people might actually get butthurt IRL about the ordeal and think it was harassment.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
If this behaviour cannot be done to a total stranger on the street and it would cause someone to contact the authorities, then the alleged violations are not part of human social interaction
First response: LOL

Second response (after composing myself): This standard would damn far more carebears than gankers, see: minerbumping.com.


You forgot, they are held to a different set of rules, though.

That's why Guy I Bumped #9 last month can get away with telling me "I am going to find you and cut your brakes, and laugh when I hear about how you died."


And you have reported all these incidents to CCP? If not, please specify why.

You cannot argue double standards and vague enforcement if you don't do your part to make sure that those infractions are handled through CCP to make a better basis for larger incidents.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#299 - 2014-09-11 13:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Crumplecorn
FleetWarp Ichoriya wrote:
No body is arguing that singransom is not legit
Falcon's sermon makes that debateable.

Adrie Atticus wrote:
I did read it and all I still see is an individual arguing technicalities about the intent of the "bonus room" withotu acknowledging that some people might actually get butthurt IRL about the ordeal and think it was harassment.
Is 'someone might get butthurt' the standard now?

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#300 - 2014-09-11 13:22:05 UTC
Rhiannon Marius wrote:

As long as it touches nothing outside the game and is not continuous. I'm fine. There is that pesky continuous harassment thing that a bonus room may touch on. Thus the grey area.


It touches voice comms, which happen to be out of game, but could be done in EVE voice (eve voice jsut doesn't have a record function) and it happens over the course of one instance.

“Die trying” is the proudest human thing.