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Anti Cruiser Bombs

Author
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#21 - 2014-09-10 18:34:28 UTC
Hopelesshobo wrote:

Setting these EWAR bombs on the combat recons would help differentiate their role compared the force recons. That being said, I'm not sure the combat recons in their current form could realistically make bomb runs on blob fleets without simply being primaried and removed from grid first. Namely because of the much larger sig, and the lack of a covert cloak. These things reduce the available reaction time to counter incoming bombs, and even though it does sound cool to put them on the combat recons since they recons in general specialize in EWAR, I am not sure if this would be practical.


It obviously wouldn't work as a "bomb" in the SB line, but more like the remote ECM burst does. That way the recon has to stay on the field, allowing the opposing fleet a chance to counter. I'm imagining something with a long cooldown so that 3 or 4 recons have to coordinate. Or fire all at once for larger effect to give a brief window to do some damage before retreating. Something that would enable guerrilla/wolf pack tactics to nibble at larger force. If you can create a window where you won't be decimated by the blob, you can act during that window then bug out. It would require coordination and balls, which is exactly what we want from a blob counter.

I don't like this idea with ECM - I hate ECM at it's core design level. It has too much randomness involved and it denies too much gameplay to the recipient. SD and TD would work well in this concept, and TP would be an interesting supplement, possibly blooming sig to let some ABC's alpha a target or two or make bombs more effective.
Sigras
Conglomo
#22 - 2014-09-10 21:11:37 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:

Setting these EWAR bombs on the combat recons would help differentiate their role compared the force recons. That being said, I'm not sure the combat recons in their current form could realistically make bomb runs on blob fleets without simply being primaried and removed from grid first. Namely because of the much larger sig, and the lack of a covert cloak. These things reduce the available reaction time to counter incoming bombs, and even though it does sound cool to put them on the combat recons since they recons in general specialize in EWAR, I am not sure if this would be practical.


It obviously wouldn't work as a "bomb" in the SB line, but more like the remote ECM burst does. That way the recon has to stay on the field, allowing the opposing fleet a chance to counter. I'm imagining something with a long cooldown so that 3 or 4 recons have to coordinate. Or fire all at once for larger effect to give a brief window to do some damage before retreating. Something that would enable guerrilla/wolf pack tactics to nibble at larger force. If you can create a window where you won't be decimated by the blob, you can act during that window then bug out. It would require coordination and balls, which is exactly what we want from a blob counter.

I don't like this idea with ECM - I hate ECM at it's core design level. It has too much randomness involved and it denies too much gameplay to the recipient. SD and TD would work well in this concept, and TP would be an interesting supplement, possibly blooming sig to let some ABC's alpha a target or two or make bombs more effective.

The danger would be 3-4 TP bombs preceding 7 regular bombs hitting for full damage...

The reason I feel like it should be a bomb like entity instead of a remote ECM burst is because bombs are far more skillful, and the remote ECM burst is far too powerful to be on an inexpensive ship
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#23 - 2014-09-10 21:40:04 UTC
No, ECM burst is stupid I agree. I don't know what else to do for a Caldari system. Maybe completely overhaul ECM and make it not stupid? Fat chance of that.

The advantage of remote modules is they could be activated immediately, instead of waiting for a detonation. That fits in with the lightning raid type of thing I'm thinking of. Bombs would have to be on cloakies, warp-outs, or throwaway ships because they will die before the ewar activates.

There's a lot of abuse potential here, especially on TP bombs, I'm aware. But I think it's an idea worth exploring. There has to be a way to fine tune them so they won't be abusable outside of their intended engagement profile.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#24 - 2014-09-10 23:03:42 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
No, ECM burst is stupid I agree. I don't know what else to do for a Caldari system. Maybe completely overhaul ECM and make it not stupid? Fat chance of that.



My widow and scorpion would like to have a talk with you



on the topic of bombs for anti cruiser work the current bombers do just fine if you have minmatar force recons in the fleet and good coordination
Sigras
Conglomo
#25 - 2014-09-11 00:52:57 UTC
if by "good coordination" you mean simultaneously double TPing 200 enemy ships then yes it takes good coordination
Quesa
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#26 - 2014-09-11 00:56:56 UTC
Bombs are already quite effective towards cruisers, trust me.
Anthar Thebess
#27 - 2014-09-11 06:40:04 UTC
Anti Cruiser Bombs - NO.
High damage anti Capital bombs - YES

No AOE damage. Acting like big torpedo able to fit only into bomb launcher.
Sigras
Conglomo
#28 - 2014-09-11 09:29:08 UTC
why no AOE damage? that is the ONLY way to deal with blobs... unless you want to allow something ridiculous like alpha striking them off the field which would be totally OP for subcaps...
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#29 - 2014-09-11 14:20:26 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:

I don't like this idea with ECM - I hate ECM at it's core design level. It has too much randomness involved and it denies too much gameplay to the recipient. SD and TD would work well in this concept, and TP would be an interesting supplement, possibly blooming sig to let some ABC's alpha a target or two or make bombs more effective.


Under the correct circumstances, it is often more devastating to use SD or TD vs ECM (Double damp hookbill anyone?). This is because SD and TD are guaranteed to hit within their optimal range that starts out at 40+km with full skills on an unbonused ship. I have often said that ECM gets a bad rap because SD and TD give you the illusion that you can still do something, while ECM makes it obvious that you can't (Other then drones).


Sigras wrote:

The danger would be 3-4 TP bombs preceding 7 regular bombs hitting for full damage...

The reason I feel like it should be a bomb like entity instead of a remote ECM burst is because bombs are far more skillful, and the remote ECM burst is far too powerful to be on an inexpensive ship


Some counters for this would be...

Have the TP bombs deal omni damage to the point where they would reduce the number conventional bombs available for use in each wave to counter the increase in damage from each bomb. The duration of this style of bomb would have to be 10 seconds though to prevent it from being used first, then followed up by conventional bombs.

Have the TP bombs give a rather small bonus and give diminishing returns on their use. For this, I would guestimate that stacked up, the biggest bonus would only be around 1 standard TP on an unbonused hull.

Another option would be to have the TP bombs not stack with each other (But this would probably be the worst option).

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-09-11 14:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sara Tosa
.
sorry, wrong thread.
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