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Dodging Wardecs

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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#401 - 2014-09-11 06:55:37 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
It seems clear that wardeccs were meant to allow the engagement of a corporation, not to harass individual players (which would raising griefing concerns). Therefore, the fact that individual players can just drop and re-form corp is perfectly consistent with game mechanics and principles. Wardeccs are not meant to be aimed at 1-man corps, they should be aimed at big enough corps where disbanding is not a viable options. It just means that the wardeccers need to do some research and use some common sense.



Says who?

War decs allows a single player or a group of players to legally shoot another player or group of players in High Sec without concord intervention.

Nothing more.


No they allowed you to shoot at members of a corporation in a highsec - not players. If those players drop to NPC corp you can't shoot at them. Your war was always with the corporation, not with the individual players.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#402 - 2014-09-11 07:01:28 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:

Grow some and go pick a fight where all the other pvp'rs are. Seems to me you are afraid to actually get into a fight with a group that has the experience to give you a good fight.


No.

PvP belongs in highsec, too. PvP belongs in every part of New Eden. No matter what you risk averse shitheels might want.


My my, insults at this time of morning..you ran out of arguments fairly quickly today.

But bye the bye..If you're so convinced that being able to drop a corp, or leave a corp is an exploit in times of a wardec..

Have you petitioned it as such yet?

If not why not?

If yes, have you had a reply yet?

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#403 - 2014-09-11 07:19:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I already do gank them. But, thanks to the Infallible Magic Space Police, my target selection is sharply limited.

So, if they won't fix wardecs, they could just double CONCORD response times to a minute or more each. That'd work too.
Quick question. What do you expect to happen if they change this? The one man corps will just stay in NPC corps instead or find a different way to avoid you entirely. You won't get more people to kill, since you'll still be going after the weakest possible people who don't stand a chance and they will know that. So the end result will be the same regardless.

It sounds like you are crying for the sake of crying, when the whole thing could be resolved by you taking 30 seconds out of your life to choose targets properly.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#404 - 2014-09-11 07:20:07 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:

Grow some and go pick a fight where all the other pvp'rs are. Seems to me you are afraid to actually get into a fight with a group that has the experience to give you a good fight.


No.

PvP belongs in highsec, too. PvP belongs in every part of New Eden. No matter what you risk averse shitheels might want.


My my, insults at this time of morning..you ran out of arguments fairly quickly today.

But bye the bye..If you're so convinced that being able to drop a corp, or leave a corp is an exploit in times of a wardec..

Have you petitioned it as such yet?

If not why not?

If yes, have you had a reply yet?


It's the afternoon where I am. Actually, it's closer to the evening. Which for me means cracking open another six pack.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#405 - 2014-09-11 07:29:31 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
It seems clear that wardeccs were meant to allow the engagement of a corporation, not to harass individual players (which would raising griefing concerns). Therefore, the fact that individual players can just drop and re-form corp is perfectly consistent with game mechanics and principles. Wardeccs are not meant to be aimed at 1-man corps, they should be aimed at big enough corps where disbanding is not a viable options. It just means that the wardeccers need to do some research and use some common sense.



Says who?

War decs allows a single player or a group of players to legally shoot another player or group of players in High Sec without concord intervention.

Nothing more.


No they allowed you to shoot at members of a corporation in a highsec - not players. If those players drop to NPC corp you can't shoot at them. Your war was always with the corporation, not with the individual players.


So members of a corporation aren't players?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#406 - 2014-09-11 07:30:06 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

It's the afternoon where I am. Actually, it's closer to the evening. Which for me means cracking open another six pack.


It's 3 AM for me, but I work night shift so I am awake at this time of night.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#407 - 2014-09-11 07:48:18 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

It's the afternoon where I am. Actually, it's closer to the evening. Which for me means cracking open another six pack.


It's 3 AM for me, but I work night shift so I am awake at this time of night.


3am? That's also a good time to crack open a six pack.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#408 - 2014-09-11 07:52:45 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

It's the afternoon where I am. Actually, it's closer to the evening. Which for me means cracking open another six pack.


It's 3 AM for me, but I work night shift so I am awake at this time of night.


3am? That's also a good time to crack open a six pack.


Not in uniform, no.

But I do have some Maker's Mark for this weekend. The old stuff, not before they toned it down.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#409 - 2014-09-11 08:04:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I already do gank them. But, thanks to the Infallible Magic Space Police, my target selection is sharply limited.

So, if they won't fix wardecs, they could just double CONCORD response times to a minute or more each. That'd work too.
Quick question. What do you expect to happen if they change this? The one man corps will just stay in NPC corps instead or find a different way to avoid you entirely.

They won't have a POS or 0% tax rate in an NPC corp. They can't own POCOs either. All of these can be kept in tact with the dec dodge exploit.

Also let's keep in mind, there is a growing following for the notion of nerfing NPC corps to mitigate exactly what you are talking about.

It's seriously time high-sec stopped being so damn easy. It's no wonder so many players grind missions and mining and then just quit. They are never taught about challenge, or the greater EVE experience.

Hey guys.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#410 - 2014-09-11 09:00:08 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
It seems clear that wardeccs were meant to allow the engagement of a corporation, not to harass individual players (which would raising griefing concerns). Therefore, the fact that individual players can just drop and re-form corp is perfectly consistent with game mechanics and principles. Wardeccs are not meant to be aimed at 1-man corps, they should be aimed at big enough corps where disbanding is not a viable options. It just means that the wardeccers need to do some research and use some common sense.



Do you work hard at being this way?

I am a one man Corp. I can strip a 4 belt system in under 8 hrs. So what you are saying I can go to a system ruin EVERYONES mining experience by taking all their roids, and they cannot effectively WD me. It's not just "merc's" that want to WD. There are also Corp's fighting for space, and resources that want to WD effectively
Dave Stark
#411 - 2014-09-11 09:01:33 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
It seems clear that wardeccs were meant to allow the engagement of a corporation, not to harass individual players (which would raising griefing concerns). Therefore, the fact that individual players can just drop and re-form corp is perfectly consistent with game mechanics and principles. Wardeccs are not meant to be aimed at 1-man corps, they should be aimed at big enough corps where disbanding is not a viable options. It just means that the wardeccers need to do some research and use some common sense.



Do you work hard at being this way?

I am a one man Corp. I can strip a 4 belt system in under 8 hrs. So what you are saying I can go to a system ruin EVERYONES mining experience by taking all their roids, and they cannot effectively WD me. It's not just "merc's" that want to WD. There are also Corp's fighting for space, and resources that want to WD effectively




that's more to do with the fact that player corps are **** and have nothing to offer miners, than any issue with WD mechanics.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#412 - 2014-09-11 09:08:52 UTC
Steppa Musana wrote:
They won't have a POS or 0% tax rate in an NPC corp. They can't own POCOs either. All of these can be kept in tact with the dec dodge exploit.

Also let's keep in mind, there is a growing following for the notion of nerfing NPC corps to mitigate exactly what you are talking about.

It's seriously time high-sec stopped being so damn easy. It's no wonder so many players grind missions and mining and then just quit. They are never taught about challenge, or the greater EVE experience.
A POS is almost irrelevant now, and 0% tax only affects missioners. Not to mention that it wouldn't stop them making another corp on another alt and moving all but the CEO to it, so all people would have to do to continue dodging is use a day old alt.

POCOs already can't be transferred out under a dec, so if someone who owns POCOs wants to reform their corp, they lose their POCOs.

And yes, I know that people want to nerf NPC corps, but I genuinely doubt that's ever going to happen to a large degree. Way too many people who play exist within NPC corps, so nerfing them would be a change to serve minority groups like wardeccers. I'm not even opposed to nerfing them myself, I'm just realistic. CCP aren't going to nuke one of their biggest groups just because a bunch of people are sad they can play without getting wardecced especially since as mentioned above, there are other ways to dec dodge without using NPC corps, so nothing would actually be resolved.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Senyu Takashi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#413 - 2014-09-11 09:40:30 UTC
So....after reading the first three pages I started thiking about any possible solution to this that might viable for both sides. However, after reading the rest of the thread I eventualy gave up, since it would probably got trolled to death by one or both sides. So I just go ahead and sum up this entire threads absurdity into one picture.

This one.

(PS:
To carebears - Stop whining when someone shoots at you or wardecs you, because when you press that "undock" button you basically agree that anyone can come and ruin your day. Its up to you how stop them. Not CCP, not anybody else but you.

To wanna-be mercs and gankers - You want war? Grab your fleet and storm VFK or Providence if you want war. Chasing indy people in highsec was not a war, is not a war and WILL NEVER BE a war. Just plain griefing. And at poeple says "I can shoot anything I want." well in that case, your targets can do ANYTHING they want to avoid you, including Dec dodging.)
Good Posting
Doomheim
#414 - 2014-09-11 09:44:16 UTC
Senyu Takashi wrote:

This one.



lol, good one
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#415 - 2014-09-11 09:46:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Senyu Takashi wrote:
So....after reading the first three pages I started thiking about any possible solution to this that might viable for both sides. However, after reading the rest of the thread I eventualy gave up, since it would probably got trolled to death by one or both sides. So I just go ahead and sum up this entire threads absurdity into one picture.

This one.

(PS:
To carebears - Stop whining when someone shoots at you or wardecs you, because when you press that "undock" button you basically agree that anyone can come and ruin your day. Its up to you how stop them. Not CCP, not anybody else but you.

To wanna-be mercs and gankers - You want war? Grab your fleet and storm VFK or Providence if you want war. Chasing indy people in highsec was not a war, is not a war and WILL NEVER BE a war. Just plain griefing. And at poeple says "I can shoot anything I want." well in that case, your targets can do ANYTHING they want to avoid you, including Dec dodging.)


That indi corp that's moving in on my T2 profits in high sec.... yah, they have to burn. Sorry, that's war. You don't have to like it, but that's the beauty of EVE. EVE doesn't like any of us either.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Senyu Takashi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#416 - 2014-09-11 09:59:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Senyu Takashi
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Senyu Takashi wrote:
So....after reading the first three pages I started thiking about any possible solution to this that might viable for both sides. However, after reading the rest of the thread I eventualy gave up, since it would probably got trolled to death by one or both sides. So I just go ahead and sum up this entire threads absurdity into one picture.

This one.

(PS:
To carebears - Stop whining when someone shoots at you or wardecs you, because when you press that "undock" button you basically agree that anyone can come and ruin your day. Its up to you how stop them. Not CCP, not anybody else but you.

To wanna-be mercs and gankers - You want war? Grab your fleet and storm VFK or Providence if you want war. Chasing indy people in highsec was not a war, is not a war and WILL NEVER BE a war. Just plain griefing. And at poeple says "I can shoot anything I want." well in that case, your targets can do ANYTHING they want to avoid you, including Dec dodging.)


That indi corp that's moving in on my T2 profits in high sec.... yah, they have to burn. Sorry, that's war. You don't have to like it, but that's the beauty of EVE. EVE doesn't like any of us either.


And who says that your only option is to shoot them into oblivion?

You can just go and sell a bit cheaper than them effectively denying them profits.
You can buy up all cheap materials from the market effectively denying them profits (i.e. forcing them to sell higher)
Hell, you can even go convo their members and offer them position in your own manufacturing corp, therefore weakening their capabilities while also strenghening yours.
Theres a ton of different ways on how to deal with them.

And honestly, do you think there would be a difference between them being in a player corp and being in an NPC corp with just a common chat channel? No, there wouldnt because they could still manufacture stuff as effectively as if they were in player corp.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#417 - 2014-09-11 10:08:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Senyu Takashi wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Senyu Takashi wrote:
So....after reading the first three pages I started thiking about any possible solution to this that might viable for both sides. However, after reading the rest of the thread I eventualy gave up, since it would probably got trolled to death by one or both sides. So I just go ahead and sum up this entire threads absurdity into one picture.

This one.

(PS:
To carebears - Stop whining when someone shoots at you or wardecs you, because when you press that "undock" button you basically agree that anyone can come and ruin your day. Its up to you how stop them. Not CCP, not anybody else but you.

To wanna-be mercs and gankers - You want war? Grab your fleet and storm VFK or Providence if you want war. Chasing indy people in highsec was not a war, is not a war and WILL NEVER BE a war. Just plain griefing. And at poeple says "I can shoot anything I want." well in that case, your targets can do ANYTHING they want to avoid you, including Dec dodging.)


That indi corp that's moving in on my T2 profits in high sec.... yah, they have to burn. Sorry, that's war. You don't have to like it, but that's the beauty of EVE. EVE doesn't like any of us either.


And who says that your only option is to shoot them into oblivion?

You can just go and sell a bit cheaper than them effectively denying them profits.
You can buy up all cheap materials from the market effectively denying them profits (i.e. forcing them to sell higher)
Hell, you can even go convo their members and offer them position in your own manufacturing corp, therefore weakening their capabilities while also strenghening yours.
Theres a ton of different ways on how to deal with them.

And honestly, do you think there would be a difference between them being in a player corp and being in an NPC corp with just a common chat channel? No, there wouldnt because they could still manufacture stuff as effectively as if they were in player corp.


I never said it was my only option, I just said I will melt them. I will do a whole bunch of other stuff to them as well, but if you think I'm going to not shoot them just because some whelp like you thinks it's no 'real pvp' or some such.... no, go away. I'm going to do everything in my power to destroy them, completely and utterly. I have no reason to not shoot them AS WELL AS breaking them in every other possible way that I can imagine.

You calling it "just plain griefing" doesn't make it griefing, it just makes you a misinformed wuss. I'm not gonna not shoot at something because it can't shoot back. I certainly enjoy a good fight but not every objective is "ships must die", sometimes that's just the means to an end. I'm going to have all different kinds of objectives that don't require a war at all, as well. But you can bet your bottom dollar that I'm not going to stop shooting indies just because you don't like it. Who the **** are you that I should care? If you don't like it, come and stop me. You have that option.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Senyu Takashi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#418 - 2014-09-11 10:16:24 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Senyu Takashi wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Senyu Takashi wrote:
So....after reading the first three pages I started thiking about any possible solution to this that might viable for both sides. However, after reading the rest of the thread I eventualy gave up, since it would probably got trolled to death by one or both sides. So I just go ahead and sum up this entire threads absurdity into one picture.

This one.

(PS:
To carebears - Stop whining when someone shoots at you or wardecs you, because when you press that "undock" button you basically agree that anyone can come and ruin your day. Its up to you how stop them. Not CCP, not anybody else but you.

To wanna-be mercs and gankers - You want war? Grab your fleet and storm VFK or Providence if you want war. Chasing indy people in highsec was not a war, is not a war and WILL NEVER BE a war. Just plain griefing. And at poeple says "I can shoot anything I want." well in that case, your targets can do ANYTHING they want to avoid you, including Dec dodging.)


That indi corp that's moving in on my T2 profits in high sec.... yah, they have to burn. Sorry, that's war. You don't have to like it, but that's the beauty of EVE. EVE doesn't like any of us either.


And who says that your only option is to shoot them into oblivion?

You can just go and sell a bit cheaper than them effectively denying them profits.
You can buy up all cheap materials from the market effectively denying them profits (i.e. forcing them to sell higher)
Hell, you can even go convo their members and offer them position in your own manufacturing corp, therefore weakening their capabilities while also strenghening yours.
Theres a ton of different ways on how to deal with them.

And honestly, do you think there would be a difference between them being in a player corp and being in an NPC corp with just a common chat channel? No, there wouldnt because they could still manufacture stuff as effectively as if they were in player corp.


I never said it was my only option, I just said I will melt them. I will do a whole bunch of other stuff to them as well, but if you think I'm going to not shoot them just because some whelp like you thinks it's no 'real pvp' or some such.... no, go away. I'm going to do everything in my power to destroy them, completely and utterly. I have no reason to not shoot them AS WELL AS breaking them in every other possible way that I can imagine.

You calling it "just plain griefing" doesn't make it griefing, it just makes you a misinformed wuss. I'm not gonna not shoot at something because it can't shoot back. I certainly enjoy a good fight but not every objective is "ships must die", sometimes that's just the means to an end. I'm going to have all different kinds of objectives that don't require a war at all, as well. But you can bet your bottom dollar that I'm not going to stop shooting indies just because you don't like it. Who the **** are you that I should care? If you don't like it, come and stop me. You have that option.


Well, then you have to accept the fact that they will do anything in their power to prevent you from destroying them, whether it would be staying docked and hiring haulers, hiring mercs to station camp you or just leaving their corporation. You cant give one side tools to complete their objective while denying them to the other side. And if you think leaving corp while under wardec is an exploit go and petition CCP. Then tell me how it went.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#419 - 2014-09-11 10:22:00 UTC
Senyu Takashi wrote:


Well, then you have to accept the fact that they will do anything in their power to prevent you from destroying them, whether it would be staying docked and hiring haulers, hiring mercs to station camp you or just leaving their corporation. You cant give one side tools to complete their objective while denying them to the other side. And if you think leaving corp while under wardec is an exploit go and petition CCP. Then tell me how it went.


You appear to be confused about a great many things on the nature of EVE and this topic.

You're new though, relatively speaking, and you haven't read the thread to understand my position well enough here to be debating on it, so I'm not going to afford you the satisfaction of saying anything dumber than you already have. Nothing, mind you, that hasn't already been said and addressed on this thread to begin with. Literally nothing you've said hasn't been said already in this very thread, and all my responses except for this one are literal repetitions as well... I honestly don't have the patience for people that don't read threads and just jump in to the discussion as if they know what the hell is going on.

So, from now on, all you get from me is,

"Polly want a cracker?"

Cuz you are literally just parroting now.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#420 - 2014-09-11 10:24:08 UTC
Senyu Takashi wrote:


Well, then you have to accept the fact that they will do anything in their power to prevent you from destroying them, whether it would be staying docked and hiring haulers, hiring mercs to station camp you or just leaving their corporation. You cant give one side tools to complete their objective while denying them to the other side. And if you think leaving corp while under wardec is an exploit go and petition CCP. Then tell me how it went.


I have openly admitted using / will use this method, and I am telling you, it is as close to an exploit as an non exploit can get to being an exploit.

Dropping Corp should ALWAYS be an option during a WD, but that does not mean it cannot carry realistic penalties.