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Dodging Wardecs

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#381 - 2014-09-11 04:49:39 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
So spending time and isk to close a corp and reform is not effort. Randomly clicking declare war is effort?


Declaring war is intended.

Now, what makes you think that CCP intends for wardecs to be 100% mitigated by this exploit?


Quote:

Because as I stated earlier. If you put effort into picking your wartarget then you won't have to worry about dodgers.


And I reject that, the same as I would the "go to low/nullsec" fallacy.

EVE is a PvP game. Not just in lowsec or nullsec. Everywhere.

PvP encompasses the idea of any time one player works against the aims of another. This includes those with the aim to blow up your ship. Dec dodging isn't avoiding PvP. It functionally is PvP.

You are right that PvP is everywhere, but wrong in thinking that dodging wardecs is somehow avoiding it.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#382 - 2014-09-11 04:53:29 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

The fact that they don't declaring doing it as an exploit.


Really?

Are you aware that there still exists at least one way to avoid CONCORD? They haven't declared it an exploit, I imagine because I have not shared the trick with anyone else, nor repeated it after discovering it accidentally.

They have not declared this action as an exploit.

Quote:

Essentially the fact that they haven't done anything to support the opposite position.


And I want that changed. Hence my posting here. Many things were legal before they weren't, that's not precedent of anything.
2 differing situations in scale. We've seen just about anything worthy of exploit be declaired as such when practiced to the point that dec dodging is. Especially when attention is drawn to it.

This has had that attention numerous times. That it was fully intended or not isn't the issue, the unintended is praised here.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#383 - 2014-09-11 04:56:40 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
2 differing situations in scale. We've seen just about anything worthy of exploit be declaired as such when practiced to the point that dec dodging is. Especially when attention is drawn to it.


And that's what I'm doing here. Drawing attention to it.

You said it yourself, they don't do anything if people don't tell them to fix it.

Well, I'm here telling them to fix it.


Quote:

This has had that attention numerous times. That it was fully intended or not isn't the issue, the unintended is praised here.


Hey, why don't you tell me about how bumping is an exploit? Pretty sure that plenty of people cry about that. But unlike dec dodging, bumping has explicitly been declared to not be an exploit.

There is a difference.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#384 - 2014-09-11 05:09:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
2 differing situations in scale. We've seen just about anything worthy of exploit be declaired as such when practiced to the point that dec dodging is. Especially when attention is drawn to it.


And that's what I'm doing here. Drawing attention to it.

You said it yourself, they don't do anything if people don't tell them to fix it.

Well, I'm here telling them to fix it.


Quote:

This has had that attention numerous times. That it was fully intended or not isn't the issue, the unintended is praised here.


Hey, why don't you tell me about how bumping is an exploit? Pretty sure that plenty of people cry about that. But unlike dec dodging, bumping has explicitly been declared to not be an exploit.

There is a difference.
Great, if you believe it to be broken have at it. I won't attempt to dissuade you.

Bumping was a thing that took center stage for a while, and like everything it drew complaints. It got explicitly cited as legal. Great. Also irrelevant. The full scope of complaints has no bearing upon something being an exploit, as proven by your point, so bringing up the number of people that seem to think it should be is pointless.

Until this is declared an exploit it isn't. I wish you well on your quest to make it so.
ashley Eoner
#385 - 2014-09-11 05:20:59 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
So spending time and isk to close a corp and reform is not effort. Randomly clicking declare war is effort?


Declaring war is intended.

Now, what makes you think that CCP intends for wardecs to be 100% mitigated by this exploit?


Quote:

Because as I stated earlier. If you put effort into picking your wartarget then you won't have to worry about dodgers.


And I reject that, the same as I would the "go to low/nullsec" fallacy.

EVE is a PvP game. Not just in lowsec or nullsec. Everywhere.

I dunno maybe the fact that it's been this way for how many years? A decade?


Then stop being lazy HTFU and gank them. There's absolutely nothing preventing you from ganking them and gaining the PVP you so richly desire.. Well other then obvious laziness and risk aversion (that kill right omg nuuuu).
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#386 - 2014-09-11 05:25:23 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:

I dunno maybe the fact that it's been this way for how many years? A decade?


Lol. Don't talk about something, if you don't know anything about it.


Quote:

Then stop being lazy HTFU and gank them. There's absolutely nothing preventing you from ganking them and gaining the PVP you so richly desire.. Well other then obvious laziness and risk aversion (that kill right omg nuuuu).



I already do gank them. But, thanks to the Infallible Magic Space Police, my target selection is sharply limited.

So, if they won't fix wardecs, they could just double CONCORD response times to a minute or more each. That'd work too.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
ashley Eoner
#387 - 2014-09-11 05:32:24 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

I dunno maybe the fact that it's been this way for how many years? A decade?


Lol. Don't talk about something, if you don't know anything about it.


Quote:

Then stop being lazy HTFU and gank them. There's absolutely nothing preventing you from ganking them and gaining the PVP you so richly desire.. Well other then obvious laziness and risk aversion (that kill right omg nuuuu).



I already do gank them. But, thanks to the Infallible Magic Space Police, my target selection is sharply limited.

So, if they won't fix wardecs, they could just double CONCORD response times to a minute or more each. That'd work too.
Well in the early days I didn't care about it because I did real pvp aka nullsec. Wars were utterly irrelevant to me and my alliance. Wars have only been relevant to me in the last few years so I have no idea what the real mechanic was 10 years ago. Not knowing if a mechanic was changed 6 years ago is irrelevant to this discussion.

So you want a "war" but you can't get a group of buddies together to kill anyone?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#388 - 2014-09-11 05:33:23 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
real pvp aka nullsec.


Oh.

You're one of those.

Elitism isn't cool anymore dude, it's 2014 not 1984.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
ashley Eoner
#389 - 2014-09-11 05:38:02 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
real pvp aka nullsec.


Oh.

You're one of those.

Elitism isn't cool anymore dude, it's 2014 not 1984.

Sorry if I don't find killing random nub #1 in his venture real pvp.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#390 - 2014-09-11 05:39:07 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Well in the early days I didn't care about it because I did real pvp aka nullsec.


So was I, I was a nullsec line member until I quit for a couple of years. that doesn't mean I can just make up nonsense because I don't know which patch notes happened and when.

If you don't even know when the last wardec patch was, then you are not qualified to talk about the subject.

Oh, and any PvP is "real PvP", by the way. Unless they've finally taken my advice and disqualified most of highsec from counting as real players, anyway.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#391 - 2014-09-11 05:40:05 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
real pvp aka nullsec.


Oh.

You're one of those.

Elitism isn't cool anymore dude, it's 2014 not 1984.

Sorry if I don't find killing random nub #1 in his venture real pvp.


Sorry if I don't consider hotdropping 30 sins on a lone Thorax 'real pvp'.

Actually, I do, because PVP=player vs player, it applies for every conflict that occurs between players, but don't pretend to be something special just because you shoot the same stuff in nulsec that I shoot everywhere.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
ashley Eoner
#392 - 2014-09-11 05:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Remiel Pollard wrote:


Sorry if I don't consider hotdropping 30 sins on a lone Thorax 'real pvp'.

Actually, I do, because PVP=player vs player, it applies for every conflict that occurs between players, but don't pretend to be something special just because you shoot the same stuff in nulsec that I shoot everywhere.

Ha well played in your response sir.

What you describe is actually one of the major reasons I stopped being a nullsec drone and moved back to highsec with the occasional foray into low/WH space.

I actually really dig WH space but alas I don't have the time to make it work long term.

To clarify I was calling null "real pvp" in comparison to what Kaarous seems to be wanting which is a license to kill newbies without fear.


Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

So was I, I was a nullsec line member until I quit for a couple of years. that doesn't mean I can just make up nonsense because I don't know which patch notes happened and when.

If you don't even know when the last wardec patch was, then you are not qualified to talk about the subject.

Oh, and any PvP is "real PvP", by the way. Unless they've finally taken my advice and disqualified most of highsec from counting as real players, anyway.

Okay so I cannot comment on a current mechanic because I don't know when that mechanic became the current mechanic and I'm not aware of every change to said mechanic going back to the creation of the game. Sooo I'm pretty sure you just eliminate everyone from being able to comment on this subject.
Kane Blacktyde
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#393 - 2014-09-11 05:50:08 UTC
I like the idea someone posted earlier of making NPC' corps able to be wardecced but with the result of that Empire's stations closed to you and you ending up an enemy of the state for the length of that WD.

Kind of like putting Faction Warfare on hardcore mode.

Results in lots of tagets to kill, but actual consequences for the choice.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#394 - 2014-09-11 05:50:12 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:

Okay so I cannot comment on a current mechanic because I don't know when that mechanic became the current mechanic and I'm not aware of every change to said mechanic going back to the creation of the game. Sooo I'm pretty sure you just eliminate everyone from being able to comment on this subject.


No, you cannot comment when you say stupid stuff like "it's been this way for a decade."

It hasn't, you showed your complete ignorance of the topic, and you're not fit to discuss it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#395 - 2014-09-11 06:24:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

I dunno maybe the fact that it's been this way for how many years? A decade?


Lol. Don't talk about something, if you don't know anything about it.


Quote:

Then stop being lazy HTFU and gank them. There's absolutely nothing preventing you from ganking them and gaining the PVP you so richly desire.. Well other then obvious laziness and risk aversion (that kill right omg nuuuu).



I already do gank them. But, thanks to the Infallible Magic Space Police, my target selection is sharply limited.

So, if they won't fix wardecs, they could just double CONCORD response times to a minute or more each. That'd work too.



Grow some and go pick a fight where all the other pvp'rs are. Seems to me you are afraid to actually get into a fight with a group that has the experience to give you a good fight.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#396 - 2014-09-11 06:35:40 UTC
It seems clear that wardeccs were meant to allow the engagement of a corporation, not to harass individual players (which would raising griefing concerns). Therefore, the fact that individual players can just drop and re-form corp is perfectly consistent with game mechanics and principles. Wardeccs are not meant to be aimed at 1-man corps, they should be aimed at big enough corps where disbanding is not a viable options. It just means that the wardeccers need to do some research and use some common sense.
ashley Eoner
#397 - 2014-09-11 06:35:50 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

Okay so I cannot comment on a current mechanic because I don't know when that mechanic became the current mechanic and I'm not aware of every change to said mechanic going back to the creation of the game. Sooo I'm pretty sure you just eliminate everyone from being able to comment on this subject.


No, you cannot comment when you say stupid stuff like "it's been this way for a decade."

It hasn't, you showed your complete ignorance of the topic, and you're not fit to discuss it.

Do you understand the function of a question mark?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#398 - 2014-09-11 06:40:23 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:

Grow some and go pick a fight where all the other pvp'rs are. Seems to me you are afraid to actually get into a fight with a group that has the experience to give you a good fight.


No.

PvP belongs in highsec, too. PvP belongs in every part of New Eden. No matter what you risk averse shitheels might want.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Prince Kobol
#399 - 2014-09-11 06:49:07 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:


Grow some and go pick a fight where all the other pvp'rs are. Seems to me you are afraid to actually get into a fight with a group that has the experience to give you a good fight.



Well that wouldn't be null sec then Blink

I can understand why many people prefer fighting in High Sec. No risk of somebody cyno'ing 100 ships on top of your head, no capitals, no bubbles.

The same can be said of low sec just without the bubbles.

On top of that more characters live in high sec then anywhere else.

The problem is that the current War Dec Mechanics coupled with NPC corps either being too good or player created corps not having enough of an advantage makes what should be a target rich environment for all for the most part rubbish.
Prince Kobol
#400 - 2014-09-11 06:52:11 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
It seems clear that wardeccs were meant to allow the engagement of a corporation, not to harass individual players (which would raising griefing concerns). Therefore, the fact that individual players can just drop and re-form corp is perfectly consistent with game mechanics and principles. Wardeccs are not meant to be aimed at 1-man corps, they should be aimed at big enough corps where disbanding is not a viable options. It just means that the wardeccers need to do some research and use some common sense.



Says who?

War decs allows a single player or a group of players to legally shoot another player or group of players in High Sec without concord intervention.

Nothing more.