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Black screens whilst multiboxing? I need your feedback

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MicDeath Titan
No Mans Corp
#21 - 2014-09-07 19:12:36 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:

...
1] How many clients do you typically use
2] How frequently does the issue happen on Tranquility?
3] Are the characters in player corps or NPC corps?
4] Are they logging in to space or to a station?
5] Can you reproduce the issue with the same setup on Singularity
...

1: 12
2: At least 2 windows will black out every time I load all 12 via ISBoxer
3: Player Corp
4: Space
5: After Singularity wiped all my settings, I refuse to even attempt it when it deleted my backup folder inside main settings folder
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2014-09-07 23:06:01 UTC
that's the main reason I have separate installs, as damage control in the event of a crash.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Pain Time
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-09-08 08:21:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Pain Time
that patch on sisi? yeah, go ahead and patch it to tranq, works. got one boxer who tried sisi and login in 11 accts didnt blackscreen a single one.


(mass logon, and mass undock.)
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2014-09-08 11:29:18 UTC
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2014-09-09 13:53:50 UTC
As listed in today's patch notes we've put out what should be a fix for this particular issue. I'd appreciate feedback from those affected if it helps your clients to behave.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#26 - 2014-09-09 15:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ammzi
1] How many clients do you typically use

8

2] How frequently does the issue happen on Tranquility?

About 70-80 % of the time on at least one or more clients.

3] Are the characters in player corps or NPC corps?

Player corp.

4] Are they logging in to space or to a station?

Happens in both cases.

5] Can you reproduce the issue with the same setup on Singularity

Ugh... maybe. Will look into it.

BONUS INFO: When I log into the station, the clients that will blackscreen when I undock CANNOT detect any fleets in the fleet finder. So those who do not list any fleets in the fleet finder are 100 % guaranteed to black-screen when I mass undock for some reason.

edit: didn't blackscreen today
Kadm
Catfish Gumbo
#27 - 2014-09-09 15:44:28 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
As listed in today's patch notes we've put out what should be a fix for this particular issue. I'd appreciate feedback from those affected if it helps your clients to behave.


Can you elaborate on the mechanics behind this particular problem? This is something I've been dealing with for quite some time, but never bothered to report because I was sure it only affected large scale multi-boxing. I worked really hard to eliminate any system latency issues that could cause this, including running EVE from a 20GB virtualized RAMdrive with 6GB/s R/W. I was convinced my only option was to drop $1500 on a new video card to see if that would reduce the problems, so I'm super curious as to what actually fixed it.
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#28 - 2014-09-09 15:55:59 UTC
It was caused by a concurrency issue when multiple clients made requests for certain server resources simultaneously and tried to cache the results, that only triggered under very particular cache states. The caching operations of one client could then corrupt the state of another, if that second client tried to read from the cache at a critical moment.

Ironically I think that the more you worked to reduce system latency, the higher the chance of encountering this bug might have been. A slower PC that had to hit the disk more often was probably less likely to trigger it, as there was less chance of two clients performing the necessary sequence of operations concurrently.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Kadm
Catfish Gumbo
#29 - 2014-09-09 16:02:36 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
It was caused by a concurrency issue when multiple clients made requests for certain server resources simultaneously and tried to cache the results, that only triggered under very particular cache states. The caching operations of one client could then corrupt the state of another, if that second client tried to read from the cache at a critical moment.

Ironically I think that the more you worked to reduce system latency, the higher the chance of encountering this bug might have been. A slower PC that had to hit the disk more often was probably less likely to trigger it, as there was less chance of two clients performing the necessary sequence of operations concurrently.


Wow. I feel derp now. That's awesome though. I bet that was an interesting bug to track down.
Gyges Skyeye
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-09-09 19:20:46 UTC
CCP Masterplan best CCP.

It all seems to be working again today after the patch. Thank you for addressing this.
Fluoroantimonicacid
Nullbear Tear Extractors
Hostile Intervention
#31 - 2014-09-09 20:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluoroantimonicacid
32 characters ( I sent in logserver from all 32 in my bug)

It happens every single time I login, both in space and in station, and I have my own 32 man corp.

Even without logging in concurrently, I still see 1-2 blackscreen once in a while.

I also found a 100% reproducible way to do this. Open fleetfinder on them all at same time (i had corp fleets as the dropdown choice)
Once fleet finder is open, a few (maybe 6-8) will show my fleet, the rest won't.
If I do this in a station, ALL clients that cannot see fleets in fleet finder blackscreen when they undock, every time. (no logs yet from this one as I don't dock much)

My pc and SAN are a beast, so probably why I see it all the time. (have not tested since patch this morning, but I have 2 bugs open.

I will test on SISI one of these days, but waiting for the next sync.

Edit: IT IS FIXED, YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME

(I will have to see if the older one is fixed too, but it only happens less than 1% of the time so no biggie)
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2014-09-09 21:03:28 UTC
I'm speechless.

I have some lab hours i need to serve at school today, but when I get back I'll start whipping my rig back and forth with session changes. I'll have results before 0700

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2014-09-10 04:05:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
by the way, I left log server running last night, and ended up with 6.3 gigs of errors.LBW files (323 files). no blackscreen events, though. just normal operation. do you want them?


I had the client drops at 05:05, and i'm submitting a bug report with my log server files. other than that, I went through several session changes with everything running with no blackscreens. if you'd like those logs anyway, i've saved them... lemme know o/

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-09-10 08:33:37 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Ban cheating boxers rather than supporting them please.


Quick! Trash talk on the forums about completely settled issues with forum alts!


Ontopic;
As of the patch, I haven't experienced blackscreens anymore, but I only ever log from in stations en-mass.
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#35 - 2014-09-10 11:18:57 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
by the way, I left log server running last night, and ended up with 6.3 gigs of errors.LBW files (323 files). no blackscreen events, though. just normal operation. do you want them?


I had the client drops at 05:05, and i'm submitting a bug report with my log server files. other than that, I went through several session changes with everything running with no blackscreens. if you'd like those logs anyway, i've saved them... lemme know o/

The disconnects at 5am were due to unrelated network issues with our datacenter. As long as things are otherwise working for you, I'm happy to not have to go through several gigs of logs :)

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Toshiro Hasegawa
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#36 - 2014-09-10 18:01:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Toshiro Hasegawa
I have had 3 black screen lock / BSOD issues in the last 2 weeks .. one last night .

3 clients logged in at once

after the first two times i stopped and did some troubleshooting .. updated my vid drivers and problem didnt happen again for a bit ..

dont recall exactly what i was doing with the 3 accounts .. one was probably station spinning - looking skills, 1 was either inspace doing rvb stuff or in station doing fittings .. and 3rd was orca piloting about.

the debugging / log tools pointed at it being graphics.

last night it was 3 accounts in station .. doing nothing much .. skills, mostly - was not in space.

the night before i was on with 4 accounts mining with 3 hulks and and orca for 1-2 hours .. (turned sound and graphics off / down for 3 accounts), and had no issue. PC was not rebooted before problem the next night. No new apps installed.

ATI 6950 - dont recall exact driver v.#
Win 7 64

I dont use multiple accounts all the time .. usually just 2 if more than 1 .. rarely 3 and almost never with 4 .. although that was about to change.

Accounts are in a mix of player and npc corps. Dont recall off the top of my head atm tbh .. i think it might be Tosh - RvB and the rest in NPC.

History is the study of change.

Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#37 - 2014-09-10 18:36:03 UTC
I've been consistently getting the black screen on about half of my 11 clients when undocking them all after Hyperion, but didn't get any black screens last night.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2014-09-10 20:51:57 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
by the way, I left log server running last night, and ended up with 6.3 gigs of errors.LBW files (323 files). no blackscreen events, though. just normal operation. do you want them?


I had the client drops at 05:05, and i'm submitting a bug report with my log server files. other than that, I went through several session changes with everything running with no blackscreens. if you'd like those logs anyway, i've saved them... lemme know o/

The disconnects at 5am were due to unrelated network issues with our datacenter. As long as things are otherwise working for you, I'm happy to not have to go through several gigs of logs :)

well if you put it that way...Lol

(u sure?)

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
CarbonFury
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#39 - 2014-09-12 23:57:41 UTC
1] How many clients do you typically use

7-9

2] How frequently does the issue happen on Tranquility?

Lately, 100% of the time.

3] Are the characters in player corps or NPC corps?

Player Corps


4] Are they logging in to space or to a station?

Station.

5] Can you reproduce the issue with the same setup on Singularity

Haven't tried.


To lend some extra insight:
When I mass login (not at the exact same moment, but close behind eachother) if I try to join a fleet some of them won't show any information in the fleet finder - it just shows blank as if no fleets are available to join. These clients are the same clients that when you undock will black screen. If you relog in space then those clients are fine and can see and join fleets.
Xash Maldar
German Roughnecks
#40 - 2014-09-13 21:09:47 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Ban cheating boxers rather than supporting them please.


So much this!
Really sad DEVs are supporting illegal behaviour now. Maybe read your own EULA once in a while! Cry
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