These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Remove griefing from highsec, but allow PvP
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Heather Tsukaya
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-09-08 19:35:51 UTC
#1: Only allow players who are criminals (-5 sec status or below) to suicide gank. This allows players to defend themselves and each other from suicide ganks. CONCORD should NOT be protecting suicide gankers.

To compensate for these changes, the NPC police should be removed from highsec, and players should have an option to "go criminal" if they choose to do so.

#2: Only corps with POSs or POCOs should be war decable. Basically create two types of corps. One type "interbus registered" can anchor POSs, POCOs and other structures, but in return can be war decced. There is a fee of 100m to become registered. Another type of corp "unregistered" can not anchor structures, but also can't be war decced. This is the default type of corp. This stops high SP mercs from griefing new player social corps of players still trying to learn the game.

#3: Remove highsec awoxing. CONCORD should protect corp mates from each other. Even people like The Mittani agree that the whole "safari" mechanic should be removed from the game.

These changes should help prevent new players from being "griefed." Right now highsec is one of the least newbie friendly areas of the game because new players have no way to protect themselves from being griefed. Hopefully a day comes when I no longer have tell new players "join a lowsec or nullsec corp as quickly as possible or you will end up quitting the game."
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2014-09-08 19:38:42 UTC
Griefing is already banned in EVE.
Heather Tsukaya
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-09-08 19:41:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Griefing is already banned in EVE.

Well surely you agree with your leader on #3 at least.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2014-09-08 19:42:13 UTC
none of what you described stops griefing as defined by CCP and griefing is already against the EULA

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2014-09-08 19:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Heather Tsukaya wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Griefing is already banned in EVE.

Well surely you agree with your leader on #3 at least.


I don't, i feel you need to be held responsible for who you let into your corp. Awoxing is the part of the game many people enjoy and on a variety of different levels. just because its a part of the game you don't like doesn't mean it needs to be removed.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Heather Tsukaya
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-09-08 19:48:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Heather Tsukaya
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Heather Tsukaya wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Griefing is already banned in EVE.

Well surely you agree with your leader on #3 at least.


I don't i feel you need to be held responsible for who you let into your corp. Awoxing is the part of the game many people enjoy and on a variety of different levels. just because its a part of the game you don't like doesn't mean it needs to be removed.

It needs to be removed because it causes new players to leave the game.

In the words of The Mittani:

The Mittani wrote:
hisec awoxing is absolutely stupid from a business and retention perspective as it disincentivizes players from reaching out to genuine confused newbies. The dueling mechanic completely removes the 'need' for corp members to shoot one another outside of Concord enforcement.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2014-09-08 19:52:29 UTC
Heather Tsukaya wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Heather Tsukaya wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Griefing is already banned in EVE.

Well surely you agree with your leader on #3 at least.


I don't i feel you need to be held responsible for who you let into your corp. Awoxing is the part of the game many people enjoy and on a variety of different levels. just because its a part of the game you don't like doesn't mean it needs to be removed.

It needs to be removed because it causes new players to leave the game.

In the words of The Mittani:

The Mittani wrote:
hisec awoxing is absolutely stupid from a business and retention perspective as it disincentivizes players from reaching out to genuine confused newbies. The dueling mechanic completely removes the 'need' for corp members to shoot one another outside of Concord enforcement.


There are far more things that cause a lot more ppl to leave the game Awoxing has never caused anyone i have know to quit the game and only very few times has it caused people to leave my alliance.

You don't need CCP to protect you this is something you can do if there is someone if your corp you don't know treat them as you would any other neutral.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Chris Slayter
Perdition
#8 - 2014-09-08 20:00:38 UTC
Heather Tsukaya wrote:
#1: Only allow players who are criminals (-5 sec status or below) to suicide gank. This allows players to defend themselves and each other from suicide ganks. CONCORD should NOT be protecting suicide gankers.

To compensate for these changes, the NPC police should be removed from highsec, and players should have an option to "go criminal" if they choose to do so.

The 'option to go criminal' completely negates your suggestion of making ganking only possible when criminal. Also the idea itself is not helping the game at all. Suicide ganking is far more than a tool for griefers. It can be used to get rid of a neutral scout or ammo supplier in combat. Removing this option would mean taking away potential for player creativity.
Heather Tsukaya wrote:
#2: Only corps with POSs or POCOs should be war decable. Basically create two types of corps. One type "interbus registered" can anchor POSs, POCOs and other structures, but in return can be war decced. There is a fee of 100m to become registered. Another type of corp "unregistered" can not anchor structures, but also can't be war decced. This is the default type of corp. This stops high SP mercs from griefing new player social corps of players still trying to learn the game.

First thing that would happen if such a change was made is that everyone puts their miners/missionrunners in one corp while doing the refining and reasearching in another effectively removing the risk for their players entirely. (and a major reason EvE is so popular is because there is risk involved the second you undock)
Heather Tsukaya wrote:
#3: Remove highsec awoxing. CONCORD should protect corp mates from each other. Even people like The Mittani agree that the whole "safari" mechanic should be removed from the game.

To be honest I don't see how safaris are a problem in this game. Better blame your CEO for not checking a players history if safaris are causing you problems. Also: content is created this way, instead of complaining why not gather your fellow corpies and fight the bad guy?
Ix Method
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-09-08 20:01:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
Heather Tsukaya wrote:
#1: Only allow players who are criminals (-5 sec status or below) to suicide gank. This allows players to defend themselves and each other from suicide ganks. CONCORD should NOT be protecting suicide gankers.

To compensate for these changes, the NPC police should be removed from highsec, and players should have an option to "go criminal" if they choose to do so.

Spontaneity is one of the only things that makes highsec interesting, why would we want to regiment what people can do?

Heather Tsukaya wrote:
#2: Only corps with POSs or POCOs should be war decable. Basically create two types of corps. One type "interbus registered" can anchor POSs, POCOs and other structures, but in return can be war decced. There is a fee of 100m to become registered. Another type of corp "unregistered" can not anchor structures, but also can't be war decced. This is the default type of corp. This stops high SP mercs from griefing new player social corps of players still trying to learn the game.

This is what NPC corps are for. If its as simple as having a community there are other (better?) ways of doing this than forming a corp. If anything we should be moving towards making corps less of a disposable asset rather than a place to chat/avoid tax and then reform My Corp. as soon as a war hits.

Having your own corp has benefits to balance the drawbacks.

Heather Tsukaya wrote:
#3: Remove highsec awoxing. CONCORD should protect corp mates from each other. Even people like The Mittani agree that the whole "safari" mechanic should be removed from the game.

These changes should help prevent new players from being "griefed." Right now highsec is one of the least newbie friendly areas of the game because new players have no way to protect themselves from being griefed. Hopefully a day comes when I no longer have tell new players "join a lowsec or nullsec corp as quickly as possible or you will end up quitting the game.

Don't really see why you'd want to protect players from the game they've actively chosen to participate in?

Travelling at the speed of love.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2014-09-08 20:02:14 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Heather Tsukaya wrote:
#1: Only allow players who are criminals (-5 sec status or below) to suicide gank. This allows players to defend themselves and each other from suicide ganks. CONCORD should NOT be protecting suicide gankers.

To compensate for these changes, the NPC police should be removed from highsec, and players should have an option to "go criminal" if they choose to do so.

So in order to do "criminal" things a player must do criminal things. And to do criminal things a player has the option to "go criminal" at will. But they can't go criminal in the first place because they must be criminals first.
Flawless circular logic there! Roll

Heather Tsukaya wrote:
#2: Only corps with POSs or POCOs should be war decable. Basically create two types of corps. One type "interbus registered" can anchor POSs, POCOs and other structures, but in return can be war decced. There is a fee of 100m to become registered. Another type of corp "unregistered" can not anchor structures, but also can't be war decced. This is the default type of corp. This stops high SP mercs from griefing new player social corps of players still trying to learn the game.

Stay in an NPC corp and create a player-made chat channel if you want to be strictly social and do not want to be war-decced. A corporation is there to provide collective benefits for a group of people.

And industrialists would abuse this system by creating "shell" corps just for the POS/POCOs and having everyone else run in a "social corp" that is on friendly terms with the "empty" corp. Almost all the benefits of a POS/POCO with less of the risks.


Heather Tsukaya wrote:
#3: Remove highsec awoxing. CONCORD should protect corp mates from each other. Even people like The Mittani agree that the whole "safari" mechanic should be removed from the game.

The Mittani trolls people on an epic scale. He knew the subject would create uproar and so wrote about it. He then sat back and watched the fireworks.

It is not CONCORD's responsibility to enforce what is basically other corporation's "internal security." That is a player's job.
If you don't want to deal with AWOXers, make the environment hostile to them (preferably with weapons, a warp scrambler, and an energy neutralizer.)


Heather Tsukaya wrote:
These changes should help prevent new players from being "griefed." Right now highsec is one of the least newbie friendly areas of the game because new players have no way to protect themselves from being griefed. Hopefully a day comes when I no longer have tell new players "join a lowsec or nullsec corp as quickly as possible or you will end up quitting the game."

"Griefing." I do not think that means what you think it means.

Here in EVE it commonly means; sustained and personal harassment on a particular individual over a period of time for no reason or gain.

Getting randomly blown up is not "griefing" (that is just bad luck and/or tactics). Getting blowing up twice by the same people in the same place is not "griefing" ("fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me").
Getting blown up repeatedly by the same people, in different places in EVE, despite efforts to avoid them, having no bounty or vendetta listed against you, over the course of a week or more IS "griefing."


tldr; "griefing" in EVE applies when significant effort is being applied against a person for no reason over a long period of time. You have to really WORK at getting slapped with that label here.

How did you Veterans start?
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#11 - 2014-09-08 20:15:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Cidanel Afuran
Heather Tsukaya wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Heather Tsukaya wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Griefing is already banned in EVE.

Well surely you agree with your leader on #3 at least.


I don't i feel you need to be held responsible for who you let into your corp. Awoxing is the part of the game many people enjoy and on a variety of different levels. just because its a part of the game you don't like doesn't mean it needs to be removed.

It needs to be removed because it causes new players to leave the game.

In the words of The Mittani:

The Mittani wrote:
hisec awoxing is absolutely stupid from a business and retention perspective as it disincentivizes players from reaching out to genuine confused newbies. The dueling mechanic completely removes the 'need' for corp members to shoot one another outside of Concord enforcement.


Getting killed in PvP causes new players to leave the game. We obviously need to keep anyone from dying in PvP.

Not being reimbursed for 100% of your ships hull/equipment when you die causes new players to leave the game. We obviously need to reimburse 100% of the cost.

Not being able to AFK mine in peace causes new players to leave the game. AFK miners should obviously not be able to be attacked.

Not being able to instawarp your assets between locations causes new players to leave the game. We obviously should be able to instawarp assets.

Not being able to buy skillpoints with ISK causes new players to leave the game. We should obviously be able to buy skillpoints with isk.


Should I keep going, or do you get the point?
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-09-08 20:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Adrie Atticus
Cidanel Afuran wrote:


Getting killed in PvP causes new players to leave the game. We obviously need to keep anyone from dying in PvP.

Not being reimbursed for 100% of your ships hull/equipment when you die causes new players to leave the game. We obviously need to reimburse 100% of the cost.

Not being able to AFK mine in peace causes new players to leave the game. AFK miners should obviously not be able to be attacked.

Not being able to instawarp your assets between locations causes new players to leave the game. We obviously should be able to instawarp assets.

Not being able to buy skillpoints with ISK causes new players to leave the game. We should obviously be able to buy skillpoints with isk.


Should I keep going, or do you get the point?


Best part of this is that if you join Goonwaffe, none of these really matter due to reimbursement and effortless JF services.

Buying SP with ISK is possible but indirectly and this shouldn't actually deter new players as they most likely don't understand what to do with all that SP.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#13 - 2014-09-08 20:23:11 UTC
Heather Tsukaya wrote:


In the words of The Mittani:

The Mittani wrote:
hisec awoxing is absolutely stupid from a business and retention perspective as it disincentivizes players from reaching out to genuine confused newbies. The dueling mechanic completely removes the 'need' for corp members to shoot one another outside of Concord enforcement.




This is a very poor example as many things have upsides and draw backs. yes it is risky to let a new player into your corp as they could very well be an alt but any good CEO knows how to mitigate this risk. The incentive to letting a new player into your corp is that you will be a large part into how they view the game and can shape them into the pilot you need.

EvE is risk vs reward recruitment is not exempt from that.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#14 - 2014-09-08 20:31:07 UTC
There is so much fail and contradiction in the suggestion it is beyond worth of correction or commenting.

As is the observation and the appeal to authority of the almighty mittani .. or one of his writers.....
Momiji Sakora
Omni Galactic
Central Omni Galactic Group
#15 - 2014-09-08 20:33:17 UTC
There are lots of ways to protect yourself against the above issues in OP's post. However these are often learnt the hard way, and are incredibly damaging to the whole atmosphere of the game - don't trust anyone, etc etc.

I've gone to a starter system in a Orca, offered to boost newbros and been declined because they assumed I was going to kill them. I've offered Perfect Orca boosts to ice and ore miners in a couple of systems, and again been told they're not interested because I could be trying to gank them. Is this the atmosphere we want to give to the people who bring new blood to our universe?

This game is can be incredibly toxic to new pilots, and to pilots who enjoy the PVE side of the game. Which love it or hate it, is the major source of ISK making for EVERYONE in our game, regardless of if you're in Low, High or Null. PVP is not a viable income, it is however very fun. (Having myself recently discovered the fun of dropping bombs on unsuspecting pilots in Null). A lot of people will say they just don't get the game. But it's not exactly true I think.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2014-09-08 20:35:16 UTC
1. no

2. no

3. no

If you believe you or anyone else is being truly griefed, report it. I imagine an account ban is much better punishment than simply not allowing it to happen.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-09-08 20:38:22 UTC
I have a simpler idea for preventing griefing in hisec. Remove hisec.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#18 - 2014-09-08 20:38:31 UTC
Momiji Sakora wrote:
There are lots of ways to protect yourself against the above issues in OP's post. However these are often learnt the hard way, and are incredibly damaging to the whole atmosphere of the game - don't trust anyone, etc etc.

I've gone to a starter system in a Orca, offered to boost newbros and been declined because they assumed I was going to kill them. I've offered Perfect Orca boosts to ice and ore miners in a couple of systems, and again been told they're not interested because I could be trying to gank them. Is this the atmosphere we want to give to the people who bring new blood to our universe?



This is absolutely the atmosphere we want. If you aren't OK with that kind of atmosphere, this isn't the game for you. Let's not water down the game. There are more than enough MMOs out there offering nice and safe gameplay.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#19 - 2014-09-08 20:48:22 UTC
Heather Tsukaya wrote:
#1: Only allow players who are criminals (-5 sec status or below) to suicide gank. This allows players to defend themselves and each other from suicide ganks. CONCORD should NOT be protecting suicide gankers.

To compensate for these changes, the NPC police should be removed from highsec, and players should have an option to "go criminal" if they choose to do so.

#2: Only corps with POSs or POCOs should be war decable. Basically create two types of corps. One type "interbus registered" can anchor POSs, POCOs and other structures, but in return can be war decced. There is a fee of 100m to become registered. Another type of corp "unregistered" can not anchor structures, but also can't be war decced. This is the default type of corp. This stops high SP mercs from griefing new player social corps of players still trying to learn the game.

#3: Remove highsec awoxing. CONCORD should protect corp mates from each other. Even people like The Mittani agree that the whole "safari" mechanic should be removed from the game.

These changes should help prevent new players from being "griefed." Right now highsec is one of the least newbie friendly areas of the game because new players have no way to protect themselves from being griefed. Hopefully a day comes when I no longer have tell new players "join a lowsec or nullsec corp as quickly as possible or you will end up quitting the game."



1 - Don't think this is a good idea. In real life anyone can attack you at anytime, and Eve should certainly not be more sheltered than real life. What we should have are real consequences for suicide ganking, so that it is only done when appropriate (i.e. when the person being ganked is undertanked and carrying around valuable stuff, etc...).

2 - Don't know much about this but tend to disagree. If you want the presence of a highsec corp you need to learn to fight wars. You always have the option of disbanding an re-forming.

3 - Probably agree - The awox mechanic never made much sense.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#20 - 2014-09-08 21:07:45 UTC
Momiji Sakora wrote:
There are lots of ways to protect yourself against the above issues in OP's post. However these are often learnt the hard way, and are incredibly damaging to the whole atmosphere of the game - don't trust anyone, etc etc.




Yes this is what drew me and many others to the game. The challenge that comes from playing against the other people and when you can't trust anyone the bonds you form with the people you do trust become that much stronger.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
123Next pageLast page