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Loki or Legion for wormhole. Help me decide please.

Author
Lester Knight Chaykin
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-12-10 17:26:22 UTC
I'd wish to try some c2/c3 wormhole sites alone and with a friend or two.
I was thinking about getting a BC for that, than i started looking at the strategic cruisers.
I can fly all but caldari, so my choice would be between the Legion and the Loki.

There are very few loadouts on battleclinic and they don't look any good, plus i would like to avoid faction fitting, well just a mod or two maybe, but not too expensive.

I'd love the Legion becouse of it's laser crystals: don't worry about ammo too much, instat switching and good range coverage.
I'd like the Loki for the immobility drivers though.

Well, i'm playing with pyfa trying to come out with a decent setup, but any tip will be appreciated.
Thanks.
IceAero
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2011-12-10 17:40:02 UTC
Legion is definitely what you want here.

You're going to need one faction mod, a B-type medium armor repper.

This is my fit: (All the faction stuff isn't needed, but the armor repairer really is)


[Legion, C3 solo]
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
Armor EM Hardener II
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink

10MN Afterburner II
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Large Capacitor Battery II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Jesus Rambo
Criterion.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#3 - 2011-12-10 21:32:23 UTC
IceAero wrote:
Legion is definitely what you want here.

You're going to need one faction mod, a B-type medium armor repper.

This is my fit: (All the faction stuff isn't needed, but the armor repairer really is)


[Legion, C3 solo]
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
Armor EM Hardener II
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink

10MN Afterburner II
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Large Capacitor Battery II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


Love this fit, but it seems pretty un-capstable and skill intensive.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-12-10 23:37:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Nalha Saldana
The T3s are not good at passive tanking and passive tank is king for soloing wormhole sites because of energy neuts.
They are also expensive, try something like this instead =)

[Vagabond, passive]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Shield Recharger II

425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
Salvager I

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Hobgoblin II x5

Works for c2 but i dont know if anything (maybe a tengu) can solo c3s anymore.
IceAero
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-12-10 23:58:56 UTC  |  Edited by: IceAero
Jesus Rambo wrote:


Love this fit, but it seems pretty un-capstable and skill intensive.



It's 100% stable :)

-38.1
+39.5

and if you only have Controlled Bursts and Fuel Conversation at lvl 4, it's:

-39.4
+39.5

Adding a faction AB would make it more so....
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-12-11 00:18:14 UTC
Anything other than a tengu is going to be pretty skill intensive for soloing WH's. However from my own experiences, I would say legion every time. I ran this one in a C2 for a bit, before trading it in for a slepnir. Tank is insufficient for a C3 though, and in a C2 you may want to consider swapping a tracking computer for a cap recharger (I was dualboxing two of these, so neuts did occasionally switch... not that C2 neuting is really that big a deal).

[Legion, C3 and below solo legion]
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

10MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M

Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Legion Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Is it sufficient? Yes. However, compared to the tengu, it has some pretty significant problems. First off, a tengu can get a better tank (really, for WH's shield tanks are just plain better than armor tanks, at least when local tanking). Secondly, a tengu doesn't need cap to fire, though it does need lots of ammo, so you'll need to remember to grab it from the POS/can occasionally. Secondly, damage projection. With this fit, you are going to be using scorch about 95% of the time... everything likes to hover way the heck out. But you can't really switch to beams, due to both PG issues and because beams can't track the frigs when they get in close, while pulses can.

All this being said, I have yet to come up with a fit for a loki that could work effectively solo...

-Arazel
Lester Knight Chaykin
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-12-11 08:16:11 UTC
First of all thanks to everyone for all the feedback and the fittings.
@Arazel: you have an interesting point there; you said that you moved from a Legion to a Sleipnir. Is it better?
Ok, now i know that a Legion would be a better choice over a Loki, but I don't want to force me into a T3 for no reason, if there's something better i'd go for it :)

Cheers.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-12-11 08:39:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Headerman
Lester Knight Chaykin wrote:
I'd wish to try some c2/c3 wormhole sites alone and with a friend or two.
I was thinking about getting a BC for that, than i started looking at the strategic cruisers.
I can fly all but caldari, so my choice would be between the Legion and the Loki.

There are very few loadouts on battleclinic and they don't look any good, plus i would like to avoid faction fitting, well just a mod or two maybe, but not too expensive.

I'd love the Legion becouse of it's laser crystals: don't worry about ammo too much, instat switching and good range coverage.
I'd like the Loki for the immobility drivers though.

Well, i'm playing with pyfa trying to come out with a decent setup, but any tip will be appreciated.
Thanks.


Hey dood, if you are dipping your toes into WHs, then it is best to start with BCs.

I found that Drakes are awesome at it, and Canes are great too. Both ships have 8 highs, so both can fit probes and the cane can fit a salvager too.

Both can shield tank fine ofc.

Harbies and Brutixs also work equally great, either as armour or shield (harby less so).

Dont start out with THE best ship to do them in, use cheap BCs and cheap fits to see how you go.

Above all, make sure your shild or armour resists are > 70% for each damage type

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062

Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#9 - 2011-12-11 09:40:52 UTC
Trust me when I say that the Tengu is the best T3 for C2 and C3 sites. With good skills you can project your damage our to 100km with scourge fury. You can't do that with the legion loki or proteus, a lot of sleepers spawn a good distance away from you, meaning you waste time having to burn to them and at the same time they are running from you.
Dietrich III
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-12-11 14:09:23 UTC
Soon Shin wrote:
Trust me when I say that the Tengu is the best T3 for C2 and C3 sites. With good skills you can project your damage our to 100km with scourge fury. You can't do that with the legion loki or proteus, a lot of sleepers spawn a good distance away from you, meaning you waste time having to burn to them and at the same time they are running from you.


Well, not ENTIRELY true. You can fit 250mm rails on the Proteus now (haven't checked active tank fits but I know you can passive tank them with a 1600 plate) and they'll get 90km optimal with Spike, and do a respectable 450dps with it.

Still, a Tengu can do 600+ dps at ANY range.
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-12-11 14:11:24 UTC
Legion, it looks and performs better
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Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-12-12 15:49:52 UTC
Soon Shin wrote:
Trust me when I say that the Tengu is the best T3 for C2 and C3 sites. With good skills you can project your damage our to 100km with scourge fury. You can't do that with the legion loki or proteus, a lot of sleepers spawn a good distance away from you, meaning you waste time having to burn to them and at the same time they are running from you.

Agreed, unless you are in a Wolf-Rayet hole (shield resist nerf = tank nerf = bad?)

@ the OP: Legion should be fine with pulses, Scorch should get you enough range to get the job done without too much pain and suffering involved. You probably want to prioritize neuting ships in a C3 though, to avoid capping out. Also, don't take this ship into a Pulsar or Cataclysmic Variable, or else the WH effects stand a good chance of making you a sad panda. W-R's are good though, so are Magnetars and Black Holes to some extent.

@ whoever suggested a passive Vaga: Need I say that Sleeper webs are 90%?
Julia Connor
P R O M E T H E U S
From Anoikis
#13 - 2011-12-12 18:07:09 UTC
A drake can solo a c3 but maybe slower and it's what you want to start with if you are going solo. You can never be 100% safe in Wh space unless you have others watching your back.
Bibosikus
Air
#14 - 2011-12-13 12:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Bibosikus
Nalha Saldana wrote:
The T3s are not good at passive tanking and passive tank is king for soloing wormhole sites because of energy neuts. /snip


Actually, reintroducing sleeper neuting has caused a refocus on active tanking, in systems up to C4. It's now a question of dps and cap tanking. For soloing C3 anomalies, you need cap stability of around 55% (65% for mag/radar sites). This is easily achievable in all T3's except the Proteus blaster fit which needs MWD. I haven't tried the rail fit.

As to Legion/Tengu comparisons - well, in a C3 sleepers don't spawn more than 70km from the warpin, and usually a lot less than that. Plus they then starts motoring towards you, A twin TC'd Legion can hit with Scorch out to 44km optimal, and starts applying dps immediately. That plus being able to insta-switch to conflag for close-range 650dps, gives it the edge over the Tengu IMO.

The Tengu is the best all-round, tanking, one-click, n00b-friendly T3 for Class 3 wormholes, and you don't need to pimp it at all to do the job. But the Legion, once skilled up & properly fit, will complete anomalies faster than the Tengu.

You can still of course use a cheap passive-tanked Drake to run C3 anomalies. Solo, is doable but takes forever. A gang of 3 Drakes will earn very good isk from C3 anomalies.

Edit: @OP - I haven't in all honesty tried out the Loki yet. But I'm about ready to order one from my Alliance and test its effectiveness :)

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Jeremy Ironforge
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-12-13 16:16:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Ironforge
Tried a capstable Legion with Nanobot Injector and 2 reppers with a friend on a T2 fitted Drake in C3. Had to warp out when focused by sentries but in over cases it stands.

Capstability achieved with CryEngine 3 2xMemory Cell 1xCCC Rigs and 2xCapRechargers II.

PS to the above poster I found it hard to hit sleeper frigs with Conflag lenses. Used IN MF instead.