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Progression in EvE, tech 2 ships.

Author
Sirius Atavuli
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-09-07 11:56:21 UTC
Hi guys,

First time posting on the eve forums, Hopefully you all understand what im on about!

Ive had an account for 7 years, but played Very sporadically. I have a gallente chara with 3mill SP but found that i wasnt keen on railguns( Dissapointed with tech2 mediums) and not a fan of drone use.

I now have a minmatar character as i prefer projectile based weapons and i like the ship style more. I have never played PvP but would like to progress to that in the future if i found a role i liked to use. A good corp to fly with would be the eventual goal.

I love my rifter, and have been drooling over the Wolf AF for some time. I have no problem trainig skills for 24 days, but are they woerth the money? i decent T1 cruiser seems like it could take far more punishment and is more cost effective. Are the T2 AF worth it? I'd need to do some lvl2 and lvl3 missions to obtain the money, so i know i will need a Thrasher at least to have a decent chance of getting through those missions.

I find Eve a bit daunting when trying to discover paths, or specific roles, although i dont mind the missions, i think running for a corp and PvP could inject a bit more fun in the game.

Appreciate any replies, any advice would help me a lot!

Fly safe!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2014-09-07 12:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
are assault frigs worth it....hmmm.
(yes, have a look through the link in my sig)

ill admit i have no experience with the minmatar or caldari ones but the other ones are ****ing amazing.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3 - 2014-09-07 12:33:19 UTC
AF are for the most part just toys. For PVE they're side grades that make no sense to train for (if you can fly them already then it could make sense but "wasting time" on them just doesn't) and for PVP they're limited in use. Since the cruiser speed buffs they're now dangerously slow and most normal frigs can easily outrun them.

Then to the actually important bit; there is no logical progression ship wise. Ships have a use, a niche and a counter so depending on the job at hand you pick a ship which means that the one you pick isn't necessarily going to be bigger, T2 or have more outright dps/tank. The only natural progression for ships within EVE is when you run missions, other than that they all have their role and use and you shouldn't automatically just assume that bigger or being more costly is the best answer to your problem.
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-09-07 12:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Azda Ja
Definitely get into PvP Big smile. It's a ton of fun.

I'm working my way up to Assault Frigates myself, and they definitely seem worth it, hell Ralph's shenanigans in his Ishkurs are what pushed me to skill into one. I'm just rounding out drone skills first before jumping into them.

I recommend practicing in that Rifter before jumping into an AF though. You're going to want experience to be able to leverage a Tech II ship's power. I'll be able to sit in that Ishkur in less than month, but I likely won't take it out for pew pew for a while. Luckily the Prerequisites are extremely useful for almost every ship, so you can't go wrong steadily training into one. Just don't forget support skills!

Also check this handy skill plan for newbies, it's a very general outline but it's a great starting point: http://blog.beyondreality.se/Newbie-skill-plan-2

Get out there and shoot people!

EDIT: Also forgot this goldmine: http://www.evealtruist.com/p/article-index.html

Start with the newbie articles then branch out.

Grrr.

Sirius Atavuli
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-09-07 12:38:32 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
AF are for the most part just toys. For PVE they're side grades that make no sense to train for (if you can fly them already then it could make sense but "wasting time" on them just doesn't) and for PVP they're limited in use. Since the cruiser speed buffs they're now dangerously slow and most normal frigs can easily outrun them.

Then to the actually important bit; there is no logical progression ship wise. Ships have a use, a niche and a counter so depending on the job at hand you pick a ship which means that the one you pick isn't necessarily going to be bigger, T2 or have more outright dps/tank. The only natural progression for ships within EVE is when you run missions, other than that they all have their role and use and you shouldn't automatically just assume that bigger or being more costly is the best answer to your problem.


It seemed to me that they only really come into thier own in PvP, perhaps with a small group of AF spamming ranged damage and being quick enough to avoid some damage? its the cost that puts me off for the moment.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-09-07 12:42:29 UTC
Assault frigates are good, but cruisers are the most versatile ship class in the entire game and I would strongly recommend you train them at some point. From a solid and cost effective tech 1 lineup to powerful specialized Tech 2 hulls and the amazingly powerful Tech 3 ships. If you want to go for assault frigates first, I'd recommend looking in to doing something besides low level missions for income. A frigate hull is only effective in level 1 and 2 missions and they don't generally pay well. Effective running of higher level missions will require a larger hull. Be warned that the nature of missioning isn't going to change with higher level missions. If you don't find then exciting now, you won't find them all that different at higher levels and should probably seek new income streams. Here is are a few suggestions for you to mull over.
Sirius Atavuli
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-09-07 12:47:41 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
Definitely get into PvP Big smile. It's a ton of fun.

I'm working my way up to Assault Frigates myself, and they definitely seem worth it, hell Ralph's shenanigans in his Ishkurs are what pushed me to skill into one. I'm just rounding out drone skills first before jumping into them.

I recommend practicing in that Rifter before jumping into an AF though. You're going to want experience to be able to leverage a Tech II ship's power. I'll be able to sit in that Ishkur in less than month, but I likely won't take it out for pew pew for a while. Luckily the Prerequisites are extremely useful for almost every ship, so you can't go wrong steadily training into one. Just don't forget support skills!

Also check this handy skill plan for newbies, it's a very general outline but it's a great starting point: http://blog.beyondreality.se/Newbie-skill-plan-2

Get out there and shoot people!

EDIT: Also forgot this goldmine: http://www.evealtruist.com/p/article-index.html

Start with the newbie articles then branch out.


Thanks! the plan described there is quite dcent, and helps to flesh out a good balanced skill set. Ive been using the eve droid app, creating fittings and then working skills to use the fitting.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#8 - 2014-09-07 12:58:57 UTC
Sirius Atavuli wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
AF are for the most part just toys. For PVE they're side grades that make no sense to train for (if you can fly them already then it could make sense but "wasting time" on them just doesn't) and for PVP they're limited in use. Since the cruiser speed buffs they're now dangerously slow and most normal frigs can easily outrun them.

Then to the actually important bit; there is no logical progression ship wise. Ships have a use, a niche and a counter so depending on the job at hand you pick a ship which means that the one you pick isn't necessarily going to be bigger, T2 or have more outright dps/tank. The only natural progression for ships within EVE is when you run missions, other than that they all have their role and use and you shouldn't automatically just assume that bigger or being more costly is the best answer to your problem.


It seemed to me that they only really come into thier own in PvP, perhaps with a small group of AF spamming ranged damage and being quick enough to avoid some damage? its the cost that puts me off for the moment.



They're slower than normal frigates and not much faster than cruisers. They have more tank than frigates but since they're slower it won't be easy to catch them, and when they face a pvp cruiser they'll be neuted to fck.

The basic use of a pvp AF is to fight idiots, preferably in PVE fits, because those won't have neuts, they'll be too slow (to react), and will have serious trouble damaging a moving frigate. Other than that a small group of AF would work well but then again an organised group of anything will work well.
Soloman Jackson
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-09-07 13:11:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Soloman Jackson
Sirius Atavuli wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:
Definitely get into PvP Big smile. It's a ton of fun.

I'm working my way up to Assault Frigates myself, and they definitely seem worth it, hell Ralph's shenanigans in his Ishkurs are what pushed me to skill into one. I'm just rounding out drone skills first before jumping into them.

I recommend practicing in that Rifter before jumping into an AF though. You're going to want experience to be able to leverage a Tech II ship's power. I'll be able to sit in that Ishkur in less than month, but I likely won't take it out for pew pew for a while. Luckily the Prerequisites are extremely useful for almost every ship, so you can't go wrong steadily training into one. Just don't forget support skills!

Also check this handy skill plan for newbies, it's a very general outline but it's a great starting point: http://blog.beyondreality.se/Newbie-skill-plan-2

Get out there and shoot people!

EDIT: Also forgot this goldmine: http://www.evealtruist.com/p/article-index.html

Start with the newbie articles then branch out.


Thanks! the plan described there is quite dcent, and helps to flesh out a good balanced skill set. Ive been using the eve droid app, creating fittings and then working skills to use the fitting.



If you don't have it already, download EFT on your system. It is a must for creating fits.

I haven't done too much PVP, but I run lvl 3 and 4 missions in my AF all the time. They are fun ships to fly.

o7 Fly fast and deadly! Twisted

Edit: Forgot the link... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=24359

“The cold stars spun to the ancient rhythm, the august march of an everlasting symphony. They are old, the stars, and their memory is long.” -Rick Yancey

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#10 - 2014-09-07 13:38:28 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Sirius Atavuli wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
AF are for the most part just toys. For PVE they're side grades that make no sense to train for (if you can fly them already then it could make sense but "wasting time" on them just doesn't) and for PVP they're limited in use. Since the cruiser speed buffs they're now dangerously slow and most normal frigs can easily outrun them.

Then to the actually important bit; there is no logical progression ship wise. Ships have a use, a niche and a counter so depending on the job at hand you pick a ship which means that the one you pick isn't necessarily going to be bigger, T2 or have more outright dps/tank. The only natural progression for ships within EVE is when you run missions, other than that they all have their role and use and you shouldn't automatically just assume that bigger or being more costly is the best answer to your problem.


It seemed to me that they only really come into thier own in PvP, perhaps with a small group of AF spamming ranged damage and being quick enough to avoid some damage? its the cost that puts me off for the moment.



They're slower than normal frigates and not much faster than cruisers. They have more tank than frigates but since they're slower it won't be easy to catch them, and when they face a pvp cruiser they'll be neuted to fck.

The basic use of a pvp AF is to fight idiots, preferably in PVE fits, because those won't have neuts, they'll be too slow (to react), and will have serious trouble damaging a moving frigate. Other than that a small group of AF would work well but then again an organised group of anything will work well.

this^^,
assault frigates are fun for brawling with stuff that's bigger than itself and isn't going anywhere, thats generally recreational bear flipping and small gang stuff with fast tackle(that's not you).

Livonia Velorea
The Fiendish Pixies
#11 - 2014-09-07 15:07:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Livonia Velorea
Since I got into my Hawk AF i've pretty much not flown another ship, going on a year or more now. Just a solo lowsec nublet and love it.

I pew you too! <3

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#12 - 2014-09-07 16:37:55 UTC
unless I need to fly a doctrine ship for a fleet its either one of my wolves or my claw..... pretty much always. love the wolf
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#13 - 2014-09-07 16:44:49 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
unless I need to fly a doctrine ship for a fleet its either one of my wolves or my claw..... pretty much always. love the wolf

Ishkur whuore hereBig smile
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#14 - 2014-09-07 16:48:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Deitra Vess
I'm actually working towards an ishkur ATM, sick of domis, and ruptures....
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#15 - 2014-09-07 18:10:13 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
I'm actually working towards an ishkur ATM, sick of domis, and ruptures....

do, its a fantastic little ship
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#16 - 2014-09-07 23:12:21 UTC
The power of assault frigates is how damn hard they are to hit.

Don't let the low EHP number fool you, you need to factor in their low signature radius (which makes them harder to lock and harder to track), and their speed and agility (which also makes them harder to track).

I suggest trying both cruisers and AFs at some time. They are tools that are used for different things.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#17 - 2014-09-08 00:15:39 UTC
Assault Frigates are basically designed around heavy skirmishing. By this I mean that they hit (or tank) hard for their class while maintaining a fair amount of mobility. But remember that they are still frigates at their core and subject to many of the same weaknesses (ex. mobility = life).

It would not be incorrect to see them as "lighter" Destroyers... much the the same way Heavy Assault Cruisers are like lighter Battlecruisers.

In the right circumstances, they can chew up ships much bigger than themselves and/or mow down people that are just not ready to deal with you... outside of this they will die just like anything else.


btw: The Enyo is a miniature shotgun. I gank-fit it once and took on a "buzzsaw" Thrasher (autocannon-shield fit). I lost by only a hair.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-09-08 05:10:57 UTC
wow, I'm surprised by the tepid response in here. I'll come out and say it. Assault frigates are ******* amazing. Some of them (mainly the Jaguar and amarr ones) are kinda weak, but in general AF's provide an extremely tanky maneuverable frigate that packs a punch. They're very versatile ships that active tank very well due to their resist profiles and damage mitigation from their tiny signature radius.

That said, they do have significant weaknesses.
They do not have the buffer of even a t1 cruiser and cannot tank gate guns. This is a major issues in low sec pvp.
They are a frigate sized ship, and have weak capacitors making neuts an extremely effective counter.
They are very slow compared to other frigates and can have some difficulty controlling range.

The speed disavantage is mitigated differently by different ships.
The wolf gets a large falloff range bonus allowing it to output significant damage even with its completely lack of range control.
The Ishkur uses drones as its primary weapon system allowing for fights at extreme ranges, and has a full three mid slots for either a web or tracking disrupter. If it cant' win it can often chase other frigates off.
The enyo assumes that you are fighting larger ships and outputs nearly double the dps of almost any other ship of its size. 450 DPS with 10K ehp buffer is not outside the realm of possibility

For pve they are effective ships for doing level 3 missions or nearly all high sec (and even some low sec) anomalies. PVP try them out anywhere where gate or station guns are not an issue. They are especially effective for baiting mission runners and dismantling certain battleship fits.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

William Ruben
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-09-09 19:00:12 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
unless I need to fly a doctrine ship for a fleet its either one of my wolves or my claw..... pretty much always. love the wolf

Ishkur whuore hereBig smile

Might you have a fit you would be willing to share?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#20 - 2014-09-09 19:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
William Ruben wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
unless I need to fly a doctrine ship for a fleet its either one of my wolves or my claw..... pretty much always. love the wolf

Ishkur whuore hereBig smile

Might you have a fit you would be willing to share?

Follow the link in my Sig , the last ship loss (Sep 09, 2014) was the ship I used to kill everything down as far as the navy domi.
Flown with mid grade halos and 5 warrior II's
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