Warfare & Tactics

Yes, but not under current sov rules.

Everything "player-built" should be destroyable by players IMHO.

Under current sov rules yes I agree.

Players should be capable of destroying them though - mechanics can get sorted out before that (well assuming some competence in ccp).

is this not the point? i mean should this not have been done this way it was done from the start.

However. destroying a Outpost would take a frick ton of firepower and im sure if CCP allowed the destruction of Outposts they would give it bonuses to use towards its fleets protecting it. its bad enough killing a large tower with the amount of time it takes without risking titans on the field.

No, please do not even suggest this. CCP has already included enough brick walls for us to waste hours upon hours shooting with multi-hundred man fleets. We do not need an other such static thing at which to shoot. As long as there is an advantage to bringing more guys to the fight (in this case, more guys eat through the effective hit points faster so we have to waste less time stabbing ourselves in the faces with this stupid mechanic), then there will always be huge blobs. People do not seem to like blobs. And yet the same people who post about hating blobs want the extra security that comes from their space stuff being hard to kill. As long as there are things in space with obnoxiously high effective hit point totals, then there will continue to be an incentive to bring huge fleets that lag the servers and make the Elite PVP crowd whinge about dishonorable blobs of unskilled newbies.

You have no idea how happy this would make every member of GSOL.

But to be fair you probably have no idea how much a large alliance already has need of Jump Freighters in everyday logistics.

Guiding Hand blokes, the ones who have made spying an assembly line job?
Yeah, I reckon their business would boom quite handily .. we already have "features" that allows a mole to do harm (theft, kicking, PW changes, alliance disband etc.) this just adds an actual mechanic to the mix .. technically everything in Eve is easier to do using brute force or numbers and its quite tedious

What do you mean? That they don't have freighters to spare for scooping duty in potentially hostile space or that it will be "too easy" to do?
Just imagine how many cans we are talking about for a busy station system, hundreds of peoples stuff all in individual containers (one per division to be evil!) that can not be scanned or opened in space .. need to haul them to a station to repack/reproc it to get the contents.

Further thought: Might even be something for the hacking skill to do, get an inventory listing for cans in space without actually being able to open the things.

I was actually referring to a group within Goonswarm whose abbreviation is GSOL, not the Guiding Hand Social Club run by Istvaan. They are the guys who go completely unnoticed as they fuel and configure POS, fuel jump bridges, move huge amounts of stuff around so that there is a cache at the front lines of a fighting force, and so on. They use Rorquals and Jump Freighters by the dozens to get these jobs done in something resembling a decent amount of time, which is to say that it is hours and hours of clicking buttons and being paranoid even with a fleet of such ships.



I mean that in reference to what I just said above most large alliances already have a large fleet of Jump Freighters, Freighters, Rorquals and Carriers for the expressed purpose of moving huge amounts of ships. Consider if an alliance decides that it wants to switch from using an all-Maelstrom fleet doctrine to an all-Abbadon fleet doctrine; further, consider that the alliance can expect to field about 200-500 such ships in the course of a day, and lose about a quarter of them. That is 50-125 battleships per day, or 350-875 battleships per week, plus modules, rigs, ammunition, and variant modules for persons of various skill levels, that need to be imported to the staging area. Consider than in order to move a fleet of that size through a jump bridge network, or to bridge a fleet of that size through a Titan, and to fuel the POS that keeps those Titans safe and maintains the jump bridge networks, you need tens of millions of cubic meters worth of liquid ozone per week. Now consider the size of a jump-capable hauling fleet needed to maintain this. Now imagine how trivial it would be for an alliance of a size sufficient to field such a fleet to simply scoop up everything by cynoing in all of their logistical hauling ships.

Don't get me wrong—I love the idea. I just don't think you realize how "not hard at all" your difficult task is. And even if it truly was a difficult task, game design should not be balanced around the difficulty or tediousness of an action; if an action is the best, most efficient, or most profitable, or only thing to do in a certain situation, the difficulty or tediousness of that action will not at all balance it. People will do it. They will commit as many hours, as many people, and as many accounts as necessary to doing it.



I actually like that idea, which is probably evidence enough that it's a terrible idea.

Ahh, OK, so GSOL is the Goon logistics arm .. did not know that. Even if they are currently busy tending the needs of the hive, surely they will embrace the chance to boss around entire fleets as they need cover and warp-ins on cans scattered all over the place .. doubly so after December when the first changes towards making null industrially self-sufficient are made and a big chunk of their raison d'etre is removed .. no?

As for the hard/tedious part, doesn't that apply to just about everything in Eve? Mining, missions, ratting et al.?

By scattering the goodies you essentially push it into the risk/reward part of the equation as the fatties are not exactly known for their defensive capabilities .. either way, if loot is to be on table for outpost destruction then it has to be an arduous task due to possible profit, hell even in the real world city sackings of old an army would spend days sifting through the rubble for the goodies.