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In-Game Events and Gatherings

 
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Eve-Bet Revenant Event Feedback

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Author
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
Chao3 Alliance
#21 - 2014-09-06 23:13:53 UTC
Malcolm Otsolen wrote:

No sir, I did not know as a new player. Never ever heard of TiDi nor do I like it. I will never do such a event again and if this what Null Sec is like I will stay in low sec or unsub.


Null sec is not all under tiDI as long as you stay away from large fleets. TiDI and the current large fleet fights is not fun, except for the elite few in command positions. This is one of the reason I chose to play this game solo, and I hope that CCP will at some point fix the issues with tiDI and large numbers of players in the same location, though it is quite a technical challenge I am sure.

When I get into null sec, I never go closer than two systems from the systems marked in red when looking at the map on the dotlan, with jumps selected. It is not a sure guarantee to avoid tiDI, but a fairly good indication of the risks of encountering large groups.

I also stay away of all the community events, as they are mostly IMHO a loss of time because of TiDI and the randomness that ensues. The last big fight I have been in was B-R5RB and it cured me from fleet fights under tiDI.

As a note, this is one of the reason CCP needs to cater to solo or small groups more than they do now. I am glad CCP Seagull has this on her radar (see sig link).

Stay in the game, and I hope you find your own entertainment niche...

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Check out the Minarchist Space Project

Liam Reppola
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-09-06 23:15:44 UTC
Th event was cool in terms of sheer size - when grid loaded it was pretty impressive. Sadly, the tidi was pretty rough and my mods weren't working.

Is it possible to get an explanation as to why the Revenant never generated a killmail?
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#23 - 2014-09-06 23:56:44 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Rixx Javix wrote:
Excellent, and I have read those reports believe it or not. So this begs the question, what are our options? Given the technical limitations on server load and the increasing amount of reporting needing to be done, crime-watch, drones, etc., what are legitimate options for massive fleet battles or events?

Is it time to consider a hard limit on per system player numbers? What else can be done?

PS: I'm no fan of limits and I would never recommend them. Perhaps this is just one of those things that has no real answer. At least, not yet. 5,000 ships, each with their own modules, guns, drones, effects, sec status, etc, etc. There is only so much computing power available.
Hard population cap is not the answer; that will become a tactic where the cap will be used to lock people out and avoid a fight.

In terms of answers:

  1. More servers :) Just this week we were preparing RFPs for new hardware, to replace TQ.
  2. Team Gridlock is continuing on rewriting Dogma and on the Brain-in-a-Box project. There are also other things on the table such as drone-swarms where all drones act in a swarm like one drone, this would be similar to the grouped gun system. Given the O(n^2) nature of drones this would significantly reduce load in certain scenarios.
  3. The last part is more tricky and the one we would appreciate feedback: How can we spread large fights over multiple systems in such a manner that it's fun for everyone involved? Some sort of a simultaneous mega-objective across multiple systems but only when there are many involved so you could still have single-system fights depending on man-power (we don't want to require people to always have 3000+ pilot fleets). This happened in B-R since there were fights in the staging systems and Titans and fleets were intercepted en route to B-R.



For number 3

What if you ended up with a bunch of titans and a FYF (Celestis) Titans can't hit them and damps don't work on Titans

So, as far as to what ships get doled off to which systems matters, not to mention fleet/wing/squad bonuses
If a fleet of NaPOCs have an Erebus with links as a FC and lose that, that is HUGE

Basically, I am not sure how to make breaking up the fights fair, because alot of stuff works thru synergy


Personally, I think this should be more of the new SOV mechanic, but let us decide who fights where, just make ti so X number of systems in a constellation has to have something done, rather than x number of gates in a system
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#24 - 2014-09-07 01:05:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Burl en Daire
Rixx Javix wrote:
Having said that, it wouldn't be hard to imagine three super-carriers - one each in different low-sec regions - having effectively spread the load that landed on Nisuwa. Again, this might be incredibly difficult to plan in most cases.



It would have probably kept Nisuwa from hitting 5K in system but if there were three super-carriers in three different systems then each system would have had 3K each because I think a lot of players stayed away because they knew it was going to be maxed TiDi. I was at work but if I had been home I would have stayed away because of the TiDi, it is just not my idea of fun.

Even if it was spread out the outcome would have been around the same. Max Tidi and a dead Super. I do want to say good job to CCP for being able to play a game where these types of things can happen, evebet. for the super and to all the pilots who showed up. Kudos to your patience. If no kill mail is generated then they should get an in game item like a piece of Steve.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson

GeeShizzle MacCloud
#25 - 2014-09-07 02:00:53 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:


In terms of answers:

  1. The last part is more tricky and the one we would appreciate feedback: How can we spread large fights over multiple systems in such a manner that it's fun for everyone involved? Some sort of a simultaneous mega-objective across multiple systems but only when there are many involved so you could still have single-system fights depending on man-power (we don't want to require people to always have 3000+ pilot fleets). This happened in B-R since there were fights in the staging systems and Titans and fleets were intercepted en route to B-R.


My initial thought would be to instead of one system being independent in terms of sov vulnerability a constellation becomes vulnerable at a time, or systems within a certain LY distance from a sov interruption deployable. You have to hold the ground for a period of time in certain areas (that could be restricted by size like FW).

have multiple of these per system with an increasing points system for sites that allow larger ships. with more smaller sites and fewer larger sites. points accrue over a period of time and the most points for a certain alliance gets the sov claim, or drops a sov level.

its kinda abstract and not really that brutal in application i guess but it spreads the fight out and makes the idea of dominating someones space with more than just 1 apex force style fleet type at one specific time.

tbh its probably a terrible idea full of gaping holes of terribleness but off the top of my head its another idea to throw into the mix!
Rain6637
NulzSec
#26 - 2014-09-07 03:37:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
CCP Explorer wrote:
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant wrote:
Couple quick thoughts:


1) Is it possible to just turn off crimewatch in a LS system undergoing this level of tidi? Not an ideal solution, but at the same time not really a big loss in giant fleet situations either.

2) How about stopping drone use entirely in particularly heavy tidi? People can still turn up, just have to use non-drone ships. Obviously this sort of artificial limitation isn't at all ideal, and the droneswarm changes mentioned above will deal with the issue longterm, but if it makes big fleet fights more bearable that's clearly superior to the current situation.
No on both, because if we did that then Time Dilation stops being a method to mitigate/spread load and instead becomes a game mechanic.

I did not attend because TiDi is a very big toll on my soul, as a lot of people know / would agree. But it's good to see TiDi acknowledged as a viable strategy. It represents the removal of a very big disadvantage to multiboxing, which is reaction time.

I dislike TiDi, but it's not necessarily a bad thing (it has its advantages). However, until I have a reason to subject myself to it, I will avoid it when I can.

[I've made peace with TiDi]
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-09-07 05:23:24 UTC
Sum Olgy wrote:
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant wrote:
I'm sure it's all very impressive technically, but as a playing experience it's fairly horrible. Not trying to moan about this, that's just my genuine opinion. When you have 5 minutes before the game responds to a warp command, and modules start doing random buggy things, that's way beyond any sort of reasonable limit.



All of the above except I am moaning about it. We customers have been experiencing lag for far too long. Yes CCP, you keep coming up with grand announcements over how you've improved this and how you've analysed that but the lag remains.

I'm sorry that CCP hasn't solved P=NP for you personally but they're doing the best they can.

They have made significant improvements. The number of pilots you can cram into a system before you reach soul-crushing lag has increased dramatically in the past few years.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#28 - 2014-09-07 07:06:35 UTC
Oh and wrong subforum, this was not a live event... but a player event so it fits more into "In-Game Events and Gatherings"

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Viaharo Musa
Evian Industries
Evictus.
#29 - 2014-09-07 07:54:34 UTC
Its well past 24hrs when the event took place. Where is the kill mail for the revenant? I have seen KM's now for every other ship Including the pod of the pilot that flew the revenant. But no revenant km it self. What gives? I mean it was a fun event and battle but still...
El Creepo
Sex Machineguns
#30 - 2014-09-07 09:33:55 UTC
Probably the 4000 people on the mail made the api poop its pants. Are there any other examples of a mail with so many people on it?
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#31 - 2014-09-07 10:19:43 UTC
El Creepo wrote:
Probably the 4000 people on the mail made the api poop its pants. Are there any other examples of a mail with so many people on it?

not quite as many (dont open that with the ingame browser)
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2014-09-07 16:15:20 UTC
Saisin wrote:
Malcolm Otsolen wrote:
No sir, I did not know as a new player. Never ever heard of TiDi nor do I like it. I will never do such a event again and if this what Null Sec is like I will stay in low sec or unsub.
Null sec is not all under tiDI as long as you stay away from large fleets. TiDI and the current large fleet fights is not fun, except for the elite few in command positions. This is one of the reason I chose to play this game solo, and I hope that CCP will at some point fix the issues with tiDI and large numbers of players in the same location, though it is quite a technical challenge I am sure.

When I get into null sec, I never go closer than two systems from the systems marked in red when looking at the map on the dotlan, with jumps selected. It is not a sure guarantee to avoid tiDI, but a fairly good indication of the risks of encountering large groups.

I also stay away of all the community events, as they are mostly IMHO a loss of time because of TiDI and the randomness that ensues. The last big fight I have been in was B-R5RB and it cured me from fleet fights under tiDI.

As a note, this is one of the reason CCP needs to cater to solo or small groups more than they do now. I am glad CCP Seagull has this on her radar (see sig link).

Stay in the game, and I hope you find your own entertainment niche...
I want to address this misconception that there is something wrong with Time Dilation and there are some "TiDi issues" that need to get fixed.

Time Dilation is a mechanism to cope with load. As I explained in my first post, in terms of load there are 3 stages: Controlled CPU, 100% CPU but controlled Time Dilation, 100% CPU and 10% Time Dilation and Dogma Lateness setting in. It is when we get to a really large number of pilots (such as the 4920 pilots at peak in this case) and enormous load beyond what 10% Time Dilation can cope with that we start to see issues.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#33 - 2014-09-07 16:19:41 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant wrote:
Couple quick thoughts:


1) Is it possible to just turn off crimewatch in a LS system undergoing this level of tidi? Not an ideal solution, but at the same time not really a big loss in giant fleet situations either.

2) How about stopping drone use entirely in particularly heavy tidi? People can still turn up, just have to use non-drone ships. Obviously this sort of artificial limitation isn't at all ideal, and the droneswarm changes mentioned above will deal with the issue longterm, but if it makes big fleet fights more bearable that's clearly superior to the current situation.
No on both, because if we did that then Time Dilation stops being a method to mitigate/spread load and instead becomes a game mechanic.

I did not attend because TiDi is a very big toll on my soul, as a lot of people know / would agree. But it's good to see TiDi acknowledged as a viable strategy. It represents the removal of a very big disadvantage to multiboxing, which is reaction time.

I dislike TiDi, but it's not necessarily a bad thing (it has its advantages). However, until I have a reason to subject myself to it, I will avoid it when I can.

[I've made peace with TiDi]
Again, I believe this is a misconception; Time Dilation is not the issue, it a mitigation method and works very well as such. It is when events are so large that not even 10% Time Dilation is able to cope with it that the experience starts to degrade.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

Viaharo Musa
Evian Industries
Evictus.
#34 - 2014-09-07 16:52:13 UTC
CCP any reply about the km?
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#35 - 2014-09-07 17:01:20 UTC
Viaharo Musa wrote:
CCP any reply about the km?
I would recommend that the Revenant pilot contact Customer Support regarding any issues with the kill report.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

God Arthie
Inner Hell
#36 - 2014-09-07 18:58:58 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
So, we have a topic without any participation from Eve-Bet and CCP Explorer giving recommendations to the Revenant pilot(who may never see this post) to write a support ticket ? Well I would recommend that CCP Explorer write an in game mail to the pilot asking him DIRECTLY to write to support for a KNOWN issue.

Btw, I was there *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. after an hour of trying to repair my fleet members(actually just trying to lock them) I've got bored and docked (obviously another one of my chars died in the "docking state"). On a side note, missiles on one window were hitting the Revenant and RR's on the other window were stuck, so no, it does not fix lag issues.

And i was thinking about moving to null as the CCP killed the WH space, but I'm sure that after seeing *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. TiDi) you wouldn't see me living there.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#37 - 2014-09-07 19:30:02 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
God Arthie wrote:
So, we have a topic without any participation from Eve-Bet and CCP Explorer giving recommendations to the Revenant pilot(who may never see this post) to write a support ticket ? Well I would recommend that CCP Explorer write an in game mail to the pilot asking him DIRECTLY to write to support for a KNOWN issue.

Btw, I was there *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. after an hour of trying to repair my fleet members(actually just trying to lock them) I've got bored and docked (obviously another one of my chars died in the "docking state"). On a side note, missiles on one window were hitting the Revenant and RR's on the other window were stuck, so no, it does not fix lag issues.

And i was thinking about moving to null as the CCP killed the WH space, but I'm sure that after seeing *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. TiDi) you wouldn't see me living there.
At the risk of repeating myself: Time Dilation doesn't fix lag issues, it mitigates load to enable vastly larger engagements to be had before lag issues set in.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

Angmar Udate
#38 - 2014-09-07 20:03:57 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CCP Explorer wrote:
God Arthie wrote:
..., it does not fix lag issues.

And i was thinking about moving to null as the CCP killed the WH space, but I'm sure that after seeing *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. TiDi) you wouldn't see me living there.
At the risk of repeating myself: Time Dilation doesn't fix lag issues, it mitigates load to enable vastly larger engagements to be had before lag issues set in.


In fact, Explorer, I think you are not clear enough: there exist no "fix" for lag. Any optimization on EVE side will just make it possible to pile more players into the system, players will and surprise, lag will hit.
Years ago we had terrible lag and disconnects when we hit over 100 people in a system. EVE has come a long way and the fact that the server stays a live during a match with 5000 players in system is in one word amazing. Other MMOs struggle to put 5000 people on a single shard.
*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

Ultimately the fix will have to be in game design, making its no longer beneficiary to pile thousands of players in to one system.
Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#39 - 2014-09-07 20:17:00 UTC
Talon Draygo wrote:
Well without a kill mail the whole thing was a complete waste of time in my opinion.


So you're one of those guys that travel on vacation and comeback without having seen anything because the whole time you had a camera in front of your face?

If all you want is the killmail I'm sure someone can draw one up in photoshop for you to link in your bio.
God Arthie
Inner Hell
#40 - 2014-09-07 20:26:53 UTC
Yes. I have the basic understanding on how TiDi works. It was my first experience with it, and i was really dissapointed, as i was expecting to see batch commands processing, so if someone would generate an event, the event and time would be recorded and in some time we would see the result, but in this case i've heard how people were already shooting the rev while i was still locking it(even if they warped after me).
Yes, you are correct, i will try to stay as far from it as i can, and i was there because i wasnt expecting such a poor game experience.