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How Long Until Drones are Finally Nerfed
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Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2014-09-06 17:35:51 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
All weapons in this game have advantages/disadvantages, including drones.

Blasters= high damage/crap range
Rails= good balance of range and damage/crap tracking and high fitting requirements
Lasers= consistent damage and instant "reload"/horrible cap use
Missiles= various advantages, depending on type/long reloads and cycle times
Drones= no ammo, excellent versatility/can be killed

There's nothing "OP" about drones.
No no, they don't get it.


They want to kill a drone ship but can't, because the drones are always killing them before. shock and horror.


Of course that they can't kill the drones at all because *gasp* they don't get kmails for that!Shocked

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Martin Corwin
Doomheim
#82 - 2014-09-06 17:37:37 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
And due to PG requirements, it isn't also feasible to fit BS class weapons on a frigate.

It's also not feasible to use sentry/heavy drones on frigates. Your dps will suffer greatly, even on paper.
Quote:

On top of that you are effectively immune to ewar, and can assign your drones to a fast locking ship so you don't even need to target the enemy and press F1 yourself.

So drones now also mitigate the effect of target painters, warp disruptors, webifiers and bubbles? Awesome!
Quote:

This is a clear imbalance, and gives a massive advantage to drones which goes against the current rock/paper/scissors paradigm which everything else follows in eve.

It also makes it a dumb weapon system, dumb in the fact that little sacrifice is needed to be made to counter everything, and there are very few variables to take into consideration other than selecting the right type of drone for the target.

You are sitting in a brawling fit Tristan and you are engaged by a MWD fit kiting Condor with a long point. Please show me how you are not ****** at this point by making use of awesome drones.
Quote:

Edit - Also drone dps is now at a level, where a vexor is out dps ing a blaster fit thorax with 2x mag stab and void ammo which should be the pinnacle of dps for a t1 cruiser class ship. The evidence that drones are imbalanced is all there if people care to look.

With 2 DDA IIs and Ogre IIs a Vexor is not even close to a Thorax. We are talking about a 100 dps difference here. Or I'm just to stupid. So post fits instead of making claims that are IMO simply false.
Gavin Dax
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2014-09-06 17:40:52 UTC
Grimpak wrote:


Of course that they can't kill the drones at all because *gasp* they don't get kmails for that!Shocked


Shoot drones in a fight vs. an ishtar or a vexor or a prophecy. Good luck with that.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2014-09-06 17:51:09 UTC
Gavin Dax wrote:
Grimpak wrote:


Of course that they can't kill the drones at all because *gasp* they don't get kmails for that!Shocked


Shoot drones in a fight vs. an ishtar or a vexor or a prophecy. Good luck with that.

this be those mythical 1vs1's people talk about or actual gangs where you can actually have a guy doing drone wetwork?

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Gavin Dax
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2014-09-06 18:00:53 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Gavin Dax wrote:
Grimpak wrote:


Of course that they can't kill the drones at all because *gasp* they don't get kmails for that!Shocked


Shoot drones in a fight vs. an ishtar or a vexor or a prophecy. Good luck with that.

this be those mythical 1vs1's people talk about or actual gangs where you can actually have a guy doing drone wetwork?


No, I mean in any fight where you don't have twice their numbers. Try shooting drones and see how effective that is.
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#86 - 2014-09-06 18:05:30 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
All weapons in this game have advantages/disadvantages, including drones.

Blasters= high damage/crap range
Rails= good balance of range and damage/crap tracking and high fitting requirements
Lasers= consistent damage and instant "reload"/horrible cap use
Missiles= various advantages, depending on type/long reloads and cycle times
Drones= no ammo, excellent versatility/can be killed

There's nothing "OP" about drones.
No no, they don't get it.


They want to kill a drone ship but can't, because the drones are always killing them before. shock and horror.


Of course that they can't kill the drones at all because *gasp* they don't get kmails for that!Shocked



I'd link all my Ishtar kills..... but the rules for GD prohibits that.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2014-09-06 18:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Gavin Dax wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
Gavin Dax wrote:
Grimpak wrote:


Of course that they can't kill the drones at all because *gasp* they don't get kmails for that!Shocked


Shoot drones in a fight vs. an ishtar or a vexor or a prophecy. Good luck with that.

this be those mythical 1vs1's people talk about or actual gangs where you can actually have a guy doing drone wetwork?


No, I mean in any fight where you don't have twice their numbers. Try shooting drones and see how effective that is.

edit: lol learn to read post.


again, why don't have one or two guys whose job is actually kill drones?

a neutron enyo with double webs can actually kill a T2 sentry, or any kind of T2 drone, even ishtar-powered, quite fast.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#88 - 2014-09-06 18:13:40 UTC
Ok, this topic was posted by a worthless FW farming alt. Look at the op on Evekill. So why should we care about your opinion when you clearly do not fly anything larger than an incursus and have no pvp experience. Not even one kill apparently.

Also, why is this thread not moved to S&M?Ugh

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#89 - 2014-09-06 18:17:21 UTC
The Gecko is how drones should have been from the start, slow and cumbersome, but can dish out some pain and take some hits.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#90 - 2014-09-06 18:19:05 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
All weapons in this game have advantages/disadvantages, including drones.

Blasters= high damage/crap range
Rails= good balance of range and damage/crap tracking and high fitting requirements
Lasers= consistent damage and instant "reload"/horrible cap use
Missiles= various advantages, depending on type/long reloads and cycle times
Drones= no ammo, excellent versatility/can be killed

There's nothing "OP" about drones.

As mentioned above. A thorax with blasters, void, and x2 mag stabs is out dps'd by a vexor which has much greater ehp to boot.


Why is this supposed to be the pinnacle of cruiser DPS? I am fairly certain that a Thorax with 3 Magstabs would outdamage it. Pulse boats would easily apply more dps at almost any useful range other than point blank, Projectiles would do near as much only with more range and damage selection.

You are looking to cherry pick an argument.

Blaster ships are also resistant to some forms of ewar: Damps effect them less as they were looking to get right up on you anyway, and range focused tracking disruption is largely meaningless.

You can use Ewar on drones, you just have to target the drone. In fact, the ships where drones are the hardest to kill, the Guristas, are more susceptible to this kind of disruption as they only put out two drones. While drones are resistant to ewar, they have no special immunity other than numbers. Their sensor strength is average and nothing raises it from its base value. Feel free to bring ecm and easily cut from half to a third of a Gurista ships dps by jamming a single drone.
Iain Cariaba
#91 - 2014-09-06 18:29:07 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
All weapons in this game have advantages/disadvantages, including drones.

Blasters= high damage/crap range
Rails= good balance of range and damage/crap tracking and high fitting requirements
Lasers= consistent damage and instant "reload"/horrible cap use
Missiles= various advantages, depending on type/long reloads and cycle times
Drones= no ammo, excellent versatility/can be killed

There's nothing "OP" about drones.

As mentioned above. A thorax with blasters, void, and x2 mag stabs is out dps'd by a vexor which has much greater ehp to boot.


Why is this supposed to be the pinnacle of cruiser DPS? I am fairly certain that a Thorax with 3 Magstabs would outdamage it. Pulse boats would easily apply more dps at almost any useful range other than point blank, Projectiles would do near as much only with more range and damage selection.

You are looking to cherry pick an argument.

Blaster ships are also resistant to some forms of ewar: Damps effect them less as they were looking to get right up on you anyway, and range focused tracking disruption is largely meaningless.

You can use Ewar on drones, you just have to target the drone. In fact, the ships where drones are the hardest to kill, the Guristas, are more susceptible to this kind of disruption as they only put out two drones. While drones are resistant to ewar, they have no special immunity other than numbers. Their sensor strength is average and nothing raises it from its base value. Feel free to bring ecm and easily cut from half to a third of a Gurista ships dps by jamming a single drone.

Unfortunatly, OP and his ilk are more of those people that want someone else to fix their problems for them rather than adapt to the meta of the game.
Gavin Dax
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2014-09-06 18:29:47 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Gavin Dax wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
Gavin Dax wrote:
Grimpak wrote:


Of course that they can't kill the drones at all because *gasp* they don't get kmails for that!Shocked


Shoot drones in a fight vs. an ishtar or a vexor or a prophecy. Good luck with that.

this be those mythical 1vs1's people talk about or actual gangs where you can actually have a guy doing drone wetwork?


No, I mean in any fight where you don't have twice their numbers. Try shooting drones and see how effective that is.

edit: lol learn to read post.


again, why don't have one or two guys whose job is actually kill drones?

a neutron enyo with double webs can actually kill a T2 sentry, or any kind of T2 drone, even ishtar-powered, quite fast.


Like I said, try it and see how well it works. I'm pretty sure you haven't, otherwise you wouldn't be saying that. Those ships will just put out more drones and the fight will not last long enough for you to have made any difference.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#93 - 2014-09-06 18:30:52 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Gavin Dax wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
Gavin Dax wrote:
Grimpak wrote:


Of course that they can't kill the drones at all because *gasp* they don't get kmails for that!Shocked


Shoot drones in a fight vs. an ishtar or a vexor or a prophecy. Good luck with that.

this be those mythical 1vs1's people talk about or actual gangs where you can actually have a guy doing drone wetwork?


No, I mean in any fight where you don't have twice their numbers. Try shooting drones and see how effective that is.

edit: lol learn to read post.


again, why don't have one or two guys whose job is actually kill drones?

a neutron enyo with double webs can actually kill a T2 sentry, or any kind of T2 drone, even ishtar-powered, quite fast.


If it's a sentry drone you don't even need the webs, since sentries are stationary anyway. It's not like webs bloat Sig or anything.

Drones are never hard to kill, other than that gurista bonus where they are only slightly more squishy than an unfit ship of the type they came from. Heavy drones have the Sig of a slow cruiser. You might want the web for lights if you are in anything bigger than a destroyer, 2 is overkill.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#94 - 2014-09-06 18:36:03 UTC
Gavin Dax wrote:


Like I said, try it and see how well it works. I'm pretty sure you haven't, otherwise you wouldn't be saying that. Those ships will just put out more drones and the fight will not last long enough for you to have made any difference.


You are being kited by a stationary weapon. If you cannot figure out how not to let that happen no one can help you.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2014-09-06 18:40:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Mike Voidstar wrote:

If it's a sentry drone you don't even need the webs, since sentries are stationary anyway. It's not like webs bloat Sig or anything.

Drones are never hard to kill, other than that gurista bonus where they are only slightly more squishy than an unfit ship of the type they came from. Heavy drones have the Sig of a slow cruiser. You might want the web for lights if you are in anything bigger than a destroyer, 2 is overkill.

dobule webs are for them pesky light drones that tend to run away as soon as the owner sees that they are being damaged.You also spread webs over slower drones so that the owner has an hard time swapping drone wings. A drone that can't return, can't be swapped out.

yeah he can abandon it, but that's 1 less drone for me to worry about.

Gavin Dax wrote:
Like I said, try it and see how well it works. I'm pretty sure you haven't, otherwise you wouldn't be saying that. Those ships will just put out more drones and the fight will not last long enough for you to have made any difference.


oh I did, I actually managed to stoosh all the drones in a 10vs10 fight. was funny because nobody actually noticed I was going for the drones before it was too late.

they weren't prophs or ishtars, but the vexors over there might've found themselves quite powerless. Bad thing of it all? I didn't got any kmail in that fightCry


also, kudos for the logibros in that fight.P

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#96 - 2014-09-06 18:51:14 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Sentamon wrote:

The prefered drones for an Ishtar are heavies btw, unless you're going to go mess with low IQ gate or station campers and there is no shortage of them.

Not in every single pvp engagement involving ishtars that I've seen/partaken in over the past year or so.

PvE dudes might use heavies, but no one does ship balance around pve content.


And only PvE baddies at that.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#97 - 2014-09-06 19:26:31 UTC
Sentamon wrote:


The prefered drones for an Ishtar are heavies btw, unless you're going to go mess with low IQ gate or station campers and there is no shortage of them.


Seems someone doesn't know what they are talking about.

The preferred drones for ishtars, in pvp and pve are both sentries. In pve, they have no flight time, and even at 20km range, gardes have no issue hitting most rats, 25km for frigates.
In Pvp, sentries dont have to worry about all getting smart-bombed when orbiting the primary target, and don't have to worry about catching up/falling behind a quick moving target. This isn't 'my opinion', this is proven based on almost all the successful (and not so much) ishtar gangs and fleets over the past year or so.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2014-09-06 19:46:03 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Sentamon wrote:


The prefered drones for an Ishtar are heavies btw, unless you're going to go mess with low IQ gate or station campers and there is no shortage of them.


Seems someone doesn't know what they are talking about.

The preferred drones for ishtars, in pvp and pve are both sentries. In pve, they have no flight time, and even at 20km range, gardes have no issue hitting most rats, 25km for frigates.
In Pvp, sentries dont have to worry about all getting smart-bombed when orbiting the primary target, and don't have to worry about catching up/falling behind a quick moving target. This isn't 'my opinion', this is proven based on almost all the successful (and not so much) ishtar gangs and fleets over the past year or so.

in this, I agree.

Sentries have range, damage and staying power. Only reason for an ishtar to use heavies is for specific situations where you need to engage together with your drones or if you didn't had sentries lying about.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#99 - 2014-09-06 20:22:41 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
Sentamon wrote:


The prefered drones for an Ishtar are heavies btw, unless you're going to go mess with low IQ gate or station campers and there is no shortage of them.


Seems someone doesn't know what they are talking about.

The preferred drones for ishtars, in pvp and pve are both sentries. In pve, they have no flight time, and even at 20km range, gardes have no issue hitting most rats, 25km for frigates.
In Pvp, sentries dont have to worry about all getting smart-bombed when orbiting the primary target, and don't have to worry about catching up/falling behind a quick moving target. This isn't 'my opinion', this is proven based on almost all the successful (and not so much) ishtar gangs and fleets over the past year or so.

in this, I agree.

Sentries have range, damage and staying power. Only reason for an ishtar to use heavies is for specific situations where you need to engage together with your drones or if you didn't had sentries lying about.


For PvE I'd use them when moving between acceleration gates before dropping sentries at the next gate when I got there.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#100 - 2014-09-06 20:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Martin Corwin wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Edit - Also drone dps is now at a level, where a vexor is out dps ing a blaster fit thorax with 2x mag stab and void ammo which should be the pinnacle of dps for a t1 cruiser class ship. The evidence that drones are imbalanced is all there if people care to look.

With 2 DDA IIs and Ogre IIs a Vexor is not even close to a Thorax. We are talking about a 100 dps difference here. Or I'm just to stupid.

It is the later. Don't worry yourself about it until you know how to fit a ship properly. Lets just say vexor can easily get over 700 going onto 800 dps with 1600mm plate and hardener, whilst a thorax is topping out at 700 and below if you still want to fit any tank at all. This is with all T2 mods, no officer/implants/boosters or anything like that.