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Want more interesting rats? Take A out from AI.

Author
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#21 - 2014-08-21 15:57:28 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:

ummm, you do know rats are vampire proof...and have infinite cap, right?
[....]

Sorry but I don't get how is it related. My proposal, at the beginning at least, would involve only change to NPC control. All other stats and attributes would be unchanged. They'd retain their strengths and vulnerabilities. Only behave less stupid.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#22 - 2014-08-21 16:00:43 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:

I believe he was trying to say that the player who takes control of the NPC ship doesn't get anything special, just a ship like any other player could fit up. The fact that a player is flying it immediately removes all NPC quirks from the picture.

Erm, no. Quite opposite. Like I mentioned in the post above, I was thinking precisely about leaving NPC ships as they are. Only taking control of them.

At least in the beginning. Maybe later evaluate further options, taking player skills, maybe also implants into account. But I'd most definitely start with least intrusive changes.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#23 - 2014-08-21 16:10:33 UTC  |  Edited by: hmskrecik
Komi Toran wrote:
The basic problem is in the Who? section: you need volunteers for this. Volunteers that want to add to people's "fun."

You have scratched subject I didn't want to touch for time being: the incentive. There needs to be one to convince a mission runner to remove safety, to allow such addition. And there needs to be one to convince another player to spend their time on most probably futile attempts at kicking such mission runner's ass.

On the other hand, rewards cannot be too great, to reduce temptation to game the system and after all, L5 missions were removed from hisec for a reason.

In summary I do not have ready answer how to manage that and I'd leave this part out of the discussion.

Quote:
This suggestion is a drain on a limited talent pool. It requires a pretty big expenditure of in-game human effort (there's even a vetting process!) to benefit a segment of the population that is, by nature, interested in solo play. It doesn't seem like a good deal to me.

I do not agree with this statement. The people who run missions, and I conjecture they'd be the main source of such animators, would not FC fleets anyway, nor run gangs, wars, etc. My point is, the population is already segmented and this feature wouldn't change it much, except of maybe introducing another microprofession.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#24 - 2014-08-21 16:15:34 UTC
Raiz Nhell wrote:
So I am controlling the NPC's in a lvl4...
I know the system, I know the location...
I know who has just entered my mission...
I know his fit (roughly)...

I know a friend who likes violencing blinged out mission runners... I think you know how this ends...

Also I volunteer all the time to provide content for others... its called undocking... and unlike lvl4 NPC's sometimes I win.

Oh dear, this is what I call unexpected consequences... I really didn't expect that. :)

Apart from introducing some perfectly legal butthurt to carebears (and I'm writing from the point of view of such mission runner) it looks like working as intended. Okay, you got some intel but it was already available, you just got it a bit easier but that's it. On the other hand you both volunteered to that so hand's clean.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#25 - 2014-08-21 16:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: hmskrecik
Felix Judge wrote:
Raiz Nhell wrote:
So I am controlling the NPC's in a lvl4...
I know the system, I know the location...
I know who has just entered my mission...
I know his fit (roughly)...

I know a friend who likes violencing blinged out mission runners... I think you know how this ends... [...]

Assuming you can choose the location where you are placed in the NPC ship. If you are assigned randomly to some mission somewhere, then good luck to your friend burning to that system. Provided you are being told the system at all, which you as mission NPC do not need to know and thus need not be shown.

This. Maybe in the OP I wasn't clear enough but I assume that animator is just dropped into some randomly chosen encounter. So you don't know in advance where and against whom.

Also for duration of such event I think fleeting should be disallowed (that would be too easy).
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#26 - 2014-08-21 16:19:47 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I volunteer to control Lv4 missions in Sinq Laison.

Now, which trash ship should carry the cyno so I can drop officer-fitted super-long-pointing Core Grand High Admiral Carriers on unsuspecting billion-ISK navyravens, or EOM Soul Destroyer Dreadnoughts on Marauders that are almost out of their Bastion cycle and won't react in time to turn it off before starting the next?

Honestly, I have no friggin' idea what are you talking about. Which NPC ships carry cyno generators or jump drives?
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-08-21 21:54:09 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Become the burner and destroy your friends with small weapons, offgrid boosting, and officer fit pirate frigates.

Sounds like a fun plan, would love to see it.

There is nothing stopping you from doing this right now in lowsec.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#28 - 2014-09-05 18:06:25 UTC
One more bump, the last one.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2014-09-05 20:30:59 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
Become the burner and destroy your friends with small weapons, offgrid boosting, and officer fit pirate frigates.

Sounds like a fun plan, would love to see it.

There is nothing stopping you from doing this right now in lowsec.

Well I need friends, an offgrid unkillable perfect booster and an officer fit frig to start
Velicitia
XS Tech
#30 - 2014-09-05 23:07:08 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
Become the burner and destroy your friends with small weapons, offgrid boosting, and officer fit pirate frigates.

Sounds like a fun plan, would love to see it.

There is nothing stopping you from doing this right now in lowsec.

Well I need friends, an offgrid unkillable perfect booster and an officer fit frig to start


Well, I'm not exactly a "friend" ... but I have a perfect fleet booster somewhere ...

granted, there's no guarantee we won't just turn the tables on you ...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#31 - 2014-09-06 02:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
OK the OP asked for thoughts so here are mine.

+1 for the basic idea it could add some new twists to the current crop of missions and as a dedicated mission runner I am all in for adding some twists.

The ability to opt out would have to be made available to all players and all missions.

Some potential problem areas that I see.

Vetting the players that would be used for this would have to be done very carefully to prevent abuses.
One way that this system could be abused is for the gankers to use it to their advantage. As pointed out there is not much a ganker could do to a mission runner if they are controlling the NPC ships already in the pocket. However add in a few of his friends in properly fit ships and they could easily take down even the best mission ships/pilots.

Would they be allowed to do whatever they wanted with the ships in the pocket, or would there be some limits applied?
This could be extremely important in the lower level missions where you would be dealing with low skilled new players and their occasional terrible fits..

How do you police this activity to prevent abuses?
Who polices this activity?

If one of these players was found to be in violation of the rules what penalties would there be?

If a player lost a ship as a direct result of a violation of rules by one of these players who pays for it?

Just some thoughts.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#32 - 2014-09-06 03:02:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Just add in more ways for me to interfere with people's missions once I scan them down and we can have plenty of interesting situations in missions. Preferably the interference in question should involve me or/and the person who's mission it is becoming suspect flagged at some point.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#33 - 2014-09-06 15:17:23 UTC  |  Edited by: hmskrecik
Thanks to everyone for all replies so far.


Now to the issue at hand.
Donnachadh wrote:

The ability to opt out would have to be made available to all players and all missions.

It should be strictly opt in. You'd have to sign up for this (for both sides) and until that you'd get only AI opponents.

Quote:

One way that this system could be abused is for the gankers to use it to their advantage. As pointed out there is not much a ganker could do to a mission runner if they are controlling the NPC ships already in the pocket. However add in a few of his friends in properly fit ships and they could easily take down even the best mission ships/pilots.

Yes, this is one of consequences and after some thought I'm okay with it. Increased risk for increased reward.

Quote:

Would they be allowed to do whatever they wanted with the ships in the pocket, or would there be some limits applied?
This could be extremely important in the lower level missions where you would be dealing with low skilled new players and their occasional terrible fits..

Basically you become a red cross. Or more accurately, you possess one or some of them. This could actually be nicely woven into backstory in the form of NPC corps hiring capsuleer consultants to guide their ships via telepresence, with usual NPC captain still being at helm and crew on stations. Thus on one hand the clone wouldn't be lost upon ship's destruction and on the other, capsuleer doesn't have all capabilities he'd have in normal sitaution. So no refitting, no fleeting, no podding, no warping, no extra bonuses, etc, but in turn you can for example tell this scramming frig to approach on spiral trajectory....

Quote:

How do you police this activity to prevent abuses?
Who polices this activity?

If one of these players was found to be in violation of the rules what penalties would there be?

If a player lost a ship as a direct result of a violation of rules by one of these players who pays for it?

Vetting should be always supervised by CCP, even if not done directly. Later most if not all of policies can be enforced by technical means. NPCs are quite restricted, so I could risk an assumption that an abuse here would be by definition an exploit, so I don't see the need for extra attention in this regard. After all, you are here to kill the player and to prevent him from completing his mission, and he did sign up for this. How worse could it be for him?
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