Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Problem: I've finished training Infomorph Synchronizing V. I have a jump clone in a station that has implants in it, and I jump to that clone to let my long train time skill train up over a weekend while I'll be away. Then my plans get cancelled. Now I have to wait 19 hours before I can jump back to my other clone and participate in content.

While I admit this is a somewhat superfluous example, I'm sure there are people that can think of better.

Here's my suggested solution(s) to these and other problems caused by jump clones:

"Advanced Infomorph Synchronizing
Advanced psychological training that allows capsuleers to synchronize with jump clones more frequently, with risk of neural damage.

This damage could come in a number of possible forms:
Minor loss of SP
Increased targeting times
Inability to use the market or contracts
..."

The list goes on, but essentially, there is a chance that you could jump and wind up with the space flu for a few hours.

There could then be another skill which lowers the risk of these problems (such as Neurotoxin Recovery), or items such as boosters which can cure certain effects.

Max level Advanced Infomorph Synchronizing would still only bring the minimum wait time between jump cloning down to an hour (my arbitrary level here, substitute as acceptable), but the possibility of experiencing a side effect increases with each jump. This would tend to negate the possibility that a fleet could jump clone from one end of the universe, then back, and then somewhere else, without losing significant numbers of members or their typical abilities. I also envision this skill as having an extra long train time.

I will be available for discussion on this topic on Monday night when I have returned to my normal clone (my plans weren't actually cancelled this weekend!). I look forward to reading and responding to informed responses as to why this particular idea would or would not work, previous DEV posts on the topic having already been reviewed. Thank you for your time.

Rowells, I understand. Thank you for the kind reply. My intention is to provide other possible consequences for people that wish to jump clone faster. The ability to jump clone faster would also come at the cost of a high train time skill. The essential message would be the same as the overheating mechanic with it's residual heat buildup - to allow for an enhanced activity while at the same time providing a suitable amount of possible failure or negative consequences. Overheating a module does not guarantee negative consequences, and yet you are essentially acting in such a way that you may lose certain abilities if you do so for much longer than your skills and other options allow.

I just think that there could be a balance to be found there. Again, thanks for your reply. This may be the last I can reply for a while, but I will be checking in as often as possible over the weekend.

Would much rather CCP did away with training implants (and, heck, attributes while they're at it). But, that's for another thread.

Not supported.

Maybe just make it so you can swap from one JC to another if they are in the same station?

This in no way makes power projection an issue and people can travel to dest like they should.

One drawback could be that you cannot train for 2x the amount of time that was remaining, and you cannot clone jump for 96 hours, plus 2x the time you had remaining.

Say you jump out to your "Training clone", but then a few hours later, need to jump back to your "combat clone" but you still have 15 hours to go. If you wish to complete the jump back, you cannot train anything for 30 hours, and you cannot jump back to your training clone for another 126 hours (96hours + 30hours training time penality).

Each level of Advanced Infomorph Synchronizing reduces the 96 hour effect by 5 hours per level.

Thus having Advanced Infomorph Synchronizing to level V means the penality is 71 hours, but you still suffer the training time penality.

If that's the case then why have jump clones at all? So, no, hardly /thread material. Try to be constructive.

I proposed the possibility of a random debuff. Not the certainty. I proposed the possibility of a skill to lessen those potential debuffs and their side effects if they happened. I proposed a rather long train time. These are all things that we currently have in other areas of the game that are completely lacking in Jump Clones. And I proposed all of this in the name of content.

If you want to keep expensive, combat enhancing implants in a clone and then happen to lose them after you jump into that clone in less than 19 hours after a previous jump, that will be your own prerogative.

I see no reason why anyone who knows better wouldn't have a goodly amount of alts for lighting their own cyno beacons, so you would still get your foolish, impatient capital pilots wasting lots of mommy's rl money from her basement.

You seem to be just like almost everyone else here, focusing on what you perceive to be the negatives, but if you or your own fleet can leave training in order to jump across the galaxy to a tackled Titan earlier because they had reduced jump times, you might think of the benefits of investing time into such a skill instead of just trying to come up with negatives or fixating on certain aspects of a proposal and not offering anything but the status quo.

Random debuffs aside, you agree that the 19 hours should be lowered. That's fine with me. But then to give reasons why it shouldn't seems counter-intuitive to that argument, so I'm not sure exactly where you stand, not that it matters.


To me, it comes down to "less choice", not "a choice". I have less choices to make if we stick with the current system. I have more time to invest in the game, more chances to engage in content, more opportunities to fully utilize the space and the abilities of my jump clones if a change LIKE (not necessarily "exactly like", but even "close to") the one that I propose gets made.

I don't think anything is busted with the current system. I think it can be improved. If you think nothing should ever be improved you should take a hammer to your computer and go outside and sit around a campfire or something. Forget all about progress for a little while. That's the status quo for you - stagnation.

This is a features & ideas forum, not a "cry about what's broken so we can all wallow in your tears" forum. I suggested a feature. Your examples don't hold up under inspection. So... come up with better examples for me to debunk and we can continue having this discussion. "Status quo is good" is only a base to start from, nothing more.

On the occasions the subject of reduced JC timers comes up I refer to these quotes original Infomorph skill introduction thread posted prior to Odyssey 1.1 for you to consider:



Original Post



Original Post

While I understand your frustration and that you are proposing downsides unlike most who want to reduce JC timers I can't help but feel that the original balance decisions (which in my opinion have not been invalidated) were the right ones and for the general good of the game and I cannot support your proposal.

This is spot on. This guy gets it. The current & possible utility of jump clones as a feature are what's to discuss here.

If I told you that you shouldn't take Combat Boosters because "drugs are bad" you would probably laugh in my face, and rightly so, because Combat Boosters have a utility that is so high no one questions taking them. People train mulriple skills in order to take them effectively. Entire fleets hinge on their members using boosters.

It is only not so with Jump Clones because of a few previous dev blogs and forum posts. There could be progress made in balancing them, we just can't write them off or write off the possibility that a balance could be found there or no, we likely wont ever find a balance.

I have yet to read a post saying that someone thinks jump clones are both as useful and as completely balanced as they could be in their current state. No one argues that because we all know it's not the case.