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Things you'd like to see changed in mining.

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Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
#1 - 2014-09-04 16:51:19 UTC
Wanted to start a list of things miners wanted to see changed in hopes that it may catch some of the devs attention.

More hybrid mining vessels. We have two currently, a cloaky/mining frigate and a combat/mining cruiser. I'd like to see a healer/mining or healer/buffer. The healer buffer could be somewhat of a cross between the Orca and logistics ships. Lose the hauling ability to buff/shield rep.

CCP's Mineral Welfare Program should probably go away already. The current asteroid spawning system highly benefits Russians/Europeans while leaving players from other time zones with the scraps. There should be some balance on roid spawning mechanics. Same with Ice spawning, I've seen European players go nuts just before down time trying to mine out that last bit of Ice so they can have themselves a fresh new belt without waiting out the 4 hour timer like everyone else does.

New mining resources. I remember comet/ring mining being talked about a while back. Maybe moon mining? Can still keep the pos harvesters running but an option of using a ship and being more active and getting more materials in return?

#1 on everyone's list I'm sure is how incredibly boring mining is. I wouldn't mind seeing something more active like having waves of pirates or droids coming at you while you are mining. Fighting them off while you try to get as much mining done. This might even make players I dunno, group up? With the skiff for protection and a healer ship, it could work.
Americium Cobalt
Cobalt-60 Nuclear Fusion Industries
#2 - 2014-09-04 17:36:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Americium Cobalt
It would be nice to have some weapon options on an exhumer to offer some protection and fair play against gankers.
Make it a hybrid rig that offers an additional turret port.
I would fit one or two.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-09-04 17:45:02 UTC
Americium Cobalt wrote:
It would be nice to have some weapon options on an exhumer to offer some protection and fair play against gankers.
Make it a hybrid rig that offers an additional turret port.
I would fit one or two.


Guns on barges is a bad idea. Having guns won't stop gankers, as they're bringing ships that they expect to lose anyways.

If you want to be ganked less, put an appropriate tank on your mining ships, and have them orbit something as they mine. Transversal + increased tank gives you more survivability, which makes it much more costly for people to gank you in high sec.

That said, if someone really wants to kill you, no amount of tank or suitability can help if they bring enough ships (and don't care about losing isk).
Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#4 - 2014-09-04 17:52:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Vivianne Athonille
Tenchi Sal wrote:
The healer buffer could be somewhat of a cross between the Orca and logistics ships. Lose the hauling ability to buff/shield rep.

This is exactly what I've been hoping for since I began advocating for the addition of Warfare Links to the Nestor.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4950168#post4950168

Drone boat and a turret range bonus to defend a fleet
Ship Maintenance Bay to allow for refits but no ship swaps
Remote Armor Repair bonuses, but weaker than true Logistics
(Some are advocating the addition of limited Remote Shield Rep bonuses too)
Combat Probe bonuses if you want to serve as lookout
Armor resistance bonus for tanking
Battleship-class power grid

Add in Warfare Link support without bonuses, and you have a great candidate to replace an Orca in belt that requires some choices. Give up hauling and link bonuses for the option to actually defend your fleet, but maintain the refit option and add a little logistics.
Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#5 - 2014-09-04 17:54:20 UTC
.
Erik Sokarad
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-09-04 18:13:30 UTC
generally, you can avoid ganks by simply not going afk, and having enough tank to have time to warp out. the real problem with many miners is that they afk-mine and dont tank their ship. stay awake, maybe read a book while you mine. the only true defense is docking your ship.

to improve mining, i think we need some better UI for how mining works... perhaps a m3 counter by the mining module to show how much has been mined so far in the cycle. this plus a scanner would allow much more accurate use of mining tools by those who are awake and aware. this would be a purely UI change, and could even be made into a mid-slot tool of some kind.

having a UI tool that would let you see your personal refine % for a given ore while you are out in your mining ship would be another useful tool. this could simply be an addition to the existing tooltips for ore.
Tolkaz Khamsi
Empire Reclamation Services
#7 - 2014-09-04 18:33:07 UTC
1. Get rid of the whole mining mechanic and make it passive like PI.

2. If I can't have #1, then remove all fixed belts and abolish the zonal restrictions on ores. Make all belts anomalies, and make all types of ores crop up in random spawns anywhere in Eve space. (Proportionally, of course; Veld would spawn more often and in bigger rocks than high-ends.)

If I can't have #1 or #2....

3. Give me a Mobile Ore Compression module like the Mobile Tractor Unit or Mobile Depot so I can compress ore right in the belt. (If I can only have one thing, this would be my choice.)

4. Give me one type of compressed ore, not three. You can fiddle with the number of units required for compression to preserve the higher mineral concentrations in the better ores.
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#8 - 2014-09-04 19:47:23 UTC
It would be nice to see an alternative way of acquiring Ore that has more to do with interacting with the space you're living in and stealing from thy neighbor and less with sitting in a ship waiting till stuff to flow into your cargohold.

Make a new shipline that can drop Mobile Mining Units. These units mine everything with about a fifth the speed of a yield fitted Mack, increasing the ship skill increases the amount of units you can drop (up to a total mining speed of a yield fitted mackinaw).

The Mobile Mining Units start mining asteroids nearest to far out to a max of range 22km or till their cargo is full, than they just sit around idle.

Shooting Mobile Mining Units gives you a suspect flag, after shooting the mobile mining unit into structure you can loot it.There is no reinforcement timer, so if you want to kill it, just keep shooting. The owner of the Unit will get a message that one of his units is under attack.

Scooping the units can only be done if you're in the new Mobile Unit dropping ship. You will scoop them including their Ore, you can't loot them if their armor isn't breached. You can extract the ore in a station or near a fitting service.

There should be different types of units, with more defenses (eHP) (gives you more time to respond to an attack), with a bigger hold and a faction from Empire Industrial LP stores who has a vastly reduced yield, but compresses Ore inside the unit over time. Unit should come in multiple versions, one with more eHP for the slow responder, one with more cargo for the person who doesn't want to empty them often and a LP unit which has a vastly reduced mining yield, but compresses the Ore inside the Unit.
Prices should vary between 3M isk per unit for a basic one and 50M per unit for the LP compression one.


With this system you can be truly AFK and with some luck or a good system you should be able to gather a lot of ore but slowly (only hauling it to station/POS), this will of course include useless ores since the unit doesn't cherry pick.
As someone who wants to mess with miners or wants a fight you can kill them in the hopes that a smart unit miner drops his units and reships into a pvp ship, waiting till he gets a message that one of his units is under attack. If he doesn't respond, he will lose his Unit and the time he wasted waiting for it to fill up. If he does respond you just created another interesting e

Ninja Miners can just crack the units open and take the ore with a hauler if the owner of said unit is too slow to respond, this way supplementing his own income from units that he has running himself.

Baddest poster ever
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#9 - 2014-09-04 20:39:45 UTC
Tenchi Sal wrote:
The healer buffer could be somewhat of a cross between the Orca and logistics ships.


Done and done.

[Orca, LogiOrca]

Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization II
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster

Large Transverse Bulkhead II
Large Transverse Bulkhead II
Large Transverse Bulkhead II

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-09-04 21:02:32 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
The healer buffer could be somewhat of a cross between the Orca and logistics ships.


Done and done.

[Orca, LogiOrca]



You can fleet that with your smartbomb Hulks for hilarious death mails.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Calypso Kendrick
Azure and Gold
#11 - 2014-09-04 22:04:58 UTC
I too would like to see the static belts go away. Replace them with Cosmic Anomalies for the ore types specific to the region and system security. Respawn timer that makes sense depending on system traffic or some other metric(s).

Add Gravametric sites back to High-sec for bigger, and creative versions of the Anoms. Maybe all Veldspar, or Scordite, or just a really cool configuration of roids, or one truly huge 2billion unit veldspar roid for example. These sites should also spawn bigger rats with frigate sized bounties. Risk vs reward anyone?

Gravimetric sites should also be used for the belts with higher grade ores instead of anomalies. It just doesn't make sense that the best ore in the game can be found in high-sec with no effort at all. I feel this would give the players willing to hustle a little something and add some content. Would be cool if these also spawned rats that were cousins to the WH rats. Not as tough, but would need to be delt with by something other than basic drones.

Added configurations to the above, minus the space junk clogging up the area. The junk is cool the first time, then it just gets in the way. An algorithm that builds the belt would be cool. That way you might never see the same belt twice and have to think about the most efficient way to mine it out.

Change the Ice Belts to spawn somewhere in the constellation rather than the same system all the time. Maybe have a heavy bias for the 'Ice system' but chances for it to come up somewhere else. Also change the static timer from 4 hours to something like 2.5-5, also make that persistent across downtime.

Would be nice if Ice compression worked too.

A way to fight back when someone comes to gank. I get that ganking is a style of game play, and I don't think anything should be safe. It would just seem less one sided if there was a way to escort an industrial ship. I'm not sure how that would/should work, but it would be nice. It could be a new role for existing ships, or a good excuse to add new ones to the game. Some ideas have already been put forward.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#12 - 2014-09-04 22:40:01 UTC
Calypso Kendrick wrote:
A way to fight back when someone comes to gank. I get that ganking is a style of game play, and I don't think anything should be safe. It would just seem less one sided if there was a way to escort an industrial ship. I'm not sure how that would/should work, but it would be nice. It could be a new role for existing ships, or a good excuse to add new ones to the game. Some ideas have already been put forward.


ECM, Webs, Logistics, DPS/Alpha are all ways to escort Industrials, Freighters, and Miners and protect them from ganks.

Miners can even do their own webbing if there are two or more of them.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Calypso Kendrick
Azure and Gold
#13 - 2014-09-04 23:48:06 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Calypso Kendrick wrote:
A way to fight back when someone comes to gank. I get that ganking is a style of game play, and I don't think anything should be safe. It would just seem less one sided if there was a way to escort an industrial ship. I'm not sure how that would/should work, but it would be nice. It could be a new role for existing ships, or a good excuse to add new ones to the game. Some ideas have already been put forward.


ECM, Webs, Logistics, DPS/Alpha are all ways to escort Industrials, Freighters, and Miners and protect them from ganks.

Miners can even do their own webbing if there are two or more of them.


Serious question: How does someone ECM or web a ganker without CONCORD smacking you? As it stands, the Catalyst warps to belt, locks, fires and the barge blows up. Same with a T1 Indy hauler. How does an escort put itself in between the ganker and the industrial?
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2014-09-05 00:00:53 UTC
Calypso Kendrick wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Calypso Kendrick wrote:
A way to fight back when someone comes to gank. I get that ganking is a style of game play, and I don't think anything should be safe. It would just seem less one sided if there was a way to escort an industrial ship. I'm not sure how that would/should work, but it would be nice. It could be a new role for existing ships, or a good excuse to add new ones to the game. Some ideas have already been put forward.


ECM, Webs, Logistics, DPS/Alpha are all ways to escort Industrials, Freighters, and Miners and protect them from ganks.

Miners can even do their own webbing if there are two or more of them.


Serious question: How does someone ECM or web a ganker without CONCORD smacking you? As it stands, the Catalyst warps to belt, locks, fires and the barge blows up. Same with a T1 Indy hauler. How does an escort put itself in between the ganker and the industrial?



You don't

Goons are trying to sucker you into taking your Orca to the belt so miniluv can blow it up

but under the guise of "This is good for you"
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#15 - 2014-09-05 00:48:39 UTC
Calypso Kendrick wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
ECM, Webs, Logistics, DPS/Alpha are all ways to escort Industrials, Freighters, and Miners and protect them from ganks.

Miners can even do their own webbing if there are two or more of them.


Serious question: How does someone ECM or web a ganker without CONCORD smacking you? As it stands, the Catalyst warps to belt, locks, fires and the barge blows up. Same with a T1 Indy hauler. How does an escort put itself in between the ganker and the industrial?


1) You web the mining barge, hauler, or freighter not the ganker. They get into warp much faster (3 webs, press F1-3 at once and the freighter will often be in warp before the third web starts cycling).

2) A catalyst gank takes time to be successful (in other words, there's some 20 seconds before CONCORD arrives in a .5, and the gank is going to require just about all of it). Lock them as they land, and run your jams as soon as they go GCC. Or sooner, if they're -5 or below. (Consider a point for that case, so that they can't run before the faction police arrive). Same thing with using a DPS/Alpha ship to blap the gankers.

Now, if the barge or hauler doesn't fit a tank, your job as an escort gets harder, but that's on them.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Islena Inewen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-09-05 11:32:58 UTC
Quoting from my post in another thread on the features and ideas board
Quote:
It it were up to me (and thankfully for all concerned it's not) I'd replace the current system with a more dynamic one.

Basically as it stands there are giant rocks in space that contain a single ore type. These rocks are placed together for form belts or in scannable sites.

I would replace the individual ore rocks with a single "Asteroid" type. Each asteroid type contains a percentage of each of the ore types. The asteroids in high sec contain a much lower potion of the good ores, and the asteroids in null sec contain a better ratio of the good stuff. Low sec can go fu... i mean low sec contains a more balanced level.

Now this would be complicated further to make it more fun! The T2 mining crystals would allow you to pull out a greater portion of the ore you're after at the expense of wasting the ores you're not.
The server would track the total of each ore mined in a region and when downtime rolls around and the ores are respawned then the ore percentage balance that the newly spawned rocks will now contain will be adjusted by what was mined over the course of the last few days/weeks.

So for example, in a high sec region right after this goes live it's fairly obvious that everyone will be after the better ores so they will fit the T2 ark crystals and mine away. after a few days of this the percentage of ark in the high sec belts will be low enough that the return on mining this will be less than switching out to another crystal. Rinse and repeat.

This should create a steady source of the low ends in null sec which can be balanced so that importing from high sec is still required but a concerted effort to get them locally would be possible.

The base percentages could be regularly balanced to ensure the market is operating the way CCP want, i.e. export of high ends from null and import of lows from highsec.

Btw, the asteroid scanner would tell you the total m3 of the roid and the percentages of the various ores it contains.


I'd also like to see the static belts replaced with anomalies and i'd like to see a built in scanner to track them down (mini game!). the scanner would only be on mining ships by default (venture/prospect, barges, exumers, orca, rorqual)
each step up in ship class could possibly probe down better anomalies.
Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
#17 - 2014-09-05 13:01:37 UTC
Forgot to add mining missions. They are pretty much useless. Their main use before was just to grind out faster standings to set up a POS. I don't know a single player who runs mining missions. They should be looked at to serve some sort of purpose other then "we have mining missions too."
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#18 - 2014-09-05 15:38:43 UTC
Tenchi Sal wrote:
Wanted to start a list of things miners wanted to see changed in hopes that it may catch some of the devs attention.

More hybrid mining vessels. We have two currently, a cloaky/mining frigate and a combat/mining cruiser. I'd like to see a healer/mining or healer/buffer. The healer buffer could be somewhat of a cross between the Orca and logistics ships. Lose the hauling ability to buff/shield rep.

CCP's Mineral Welfare Program should probably go away already. The current asteroid spawning system highly benefits Russians/Europeans while leaving players from other time zones with the scraps. There should be some balance on roid spawning mechanics. Same with Ice spawning, I've seen European players go nuts just before down time trying to mine out that last bit of Ice so they can have themselves a fresh new belt without waiting out the 4 hour timer like everyone else does.

New mining resources. I remember comet/ring mining being talked about a while back. Maybe moon mining? Can still keep the pos harvesters running but an option of using a ship and being more active and getting more materials in return?

#1 on everyone's list I'm sure is how incredibly boring mining is. I wouldn't mind seeing something more active like having waves of pirates or droids coming at you while you are mining. Fighting them off while you try to get as much mining done. This might even make players I dunno, group up? With the skiff for protection and a healer ship, it could work.


Regarding defence from suicide ganks for miners the best defence is location, location, location, location, and local intel. Along with this you should have has much tank as you can fit without seriously gimping your yield.

Timezones. Essentially this is just how the cookie crumbles. I used to play Guild Wars, the original game not GW2, which was based and run in America. I can't remember why now but this did cause 'problems' for players in the UK & Europe. So you either play EVE or choose another game that is run in the US.

I doubt the ring mining idea will ever come about now. Not that I'm involved in nullsec but I think fixing nullsec sovereignty is probably more important as it should reintroduce conflict into nullsec which will improve the market and increase the online figures.

Last but not least my number one would be for people who find mining boring or who don't like mining to not mine and go do something else. Smile

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#19 - 2014-09-05 15:47:26 UTC
Tenchi Sal wrote:
Wanted to start a list of things miners wanted to see changed in hopes that it may catch some of the devs attention.

.


I'm not going to make myself popular here.

I mine irregularly. I mine in high sec. I have a very busy job in real life and I like to mine BECAUSE it's slow. I use it to relax and to take the time to get my head out of the tornado.

I mine because it allows me to chat with friends and contacts within and outside EVE while I'm doing something that contributes to my manufacturing.

I've been doing this since 2005 in this way.

and I think it's perfect

working

as

intended

If I were to change one thing about mining, it would be this: to make high sec asteroid belts have about the same size rocks as null sec belts but fewer of them. I don't need to be kept entertained while I'm mining. I entertain myself. CCP's idea that miners need entertainment by constantly moving aroudn and locking new rocks is the wrong paradigm. What miners are after is not action... it's the exact oposite of action. It's rest.

Adjujst the size of the rocks. The isk per hour can remain the same.

T-
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#20 - 2014-09-05 16:09:49 UTC
Comet Mining.

A comet spawns randomly in a system, it has ice as an outer layer, once the ice is gone, it has minerals as a second layer, and when that is gone, a little moon goo as the core. There is a trail of gas that can be mined as well.

The trick is, it moves at 1000 m/s (unless you web it), and particles fall off (so you take damage from the comet itself while mining).

It has to be scanned down to be found.
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