Ships & Modules

I'm trying to get a better understanding of optimal range and falloff, so here's a basic question that I think will help me understand more.

You have 4 turrets. Each turret has equal tracking and damage modifyer. Each turret has a optimal plus falloff of 50 km.

Turret 1 has: 10 km optimal and 40 km falloff

Turret 2 has: 20 km optimal and 30 km falloff

Turret 3 has: 30 km optimal and 20 km falloff

Turret 4 has: 40 km optimal and 10 km falloff

Given these stats which Turret is the best to equip and why?

yk

I probably would go with Turret 2 because it gives you total range of 60 km.

Of course I also prefer sniper fits for pve and use projectile turrets. Maybe you are talking about lasers or hybrids, no way for me to tell.

At optimal+falloff, your chance to hit is 50% (ignoring the effects of tracking). At optimal+2*falloff, your chance to hit is about 3% and quickly reaches 0% after that.

That should answer your question better than anything else.

Assuming the the second turret has a typo in it, and the falloff should read 30km, this:

0-50km Turret 4
At 50km+ Turret 1

Typo fixed

Actually it does.

If I'm understanding correctly then, in that case all the turrets will hit at the same damage at 50km.
The damage output of turret 4 however will increase faster than the other turrets as the target gets closer (it will be in optimal range more quickly when you approach. But decrease fasther than the others is the target distance becomes greater than optimal+falloff (essentially more of a wall for maximum range).

The opposite then is true for turret 1. Turret 1's damage will increase more slowly as the target distance closes. However, it will decrease more slowly as target distance becomes greater than optimal+falloff.

Thanks. That helps a lot!

As mentioned, turret 1 for 50km+ and turret 4 for 50km and lower. None of the other turrets really need to be considered.

Here's the breakdown. I'm too lazy to make graphs to show the curve, but this chart should work. Remember that the more shallow into falloff you are, the more DPS you will be doing at that point. For reference, as per the OP, 100% falloff=50km for all turrets.

Turret 1 50% falloff = 30km
Turret 2 50% falloff =40km
Turret 3 50% falloff =40km
Turret 4 50% falloff =45km

Fighting in optimal is always better then falloff, which leaves 45-50km as the only range anything can potentially pass turret 4. Since fallofff is on a curve, that's more realistically 47-50km which is trivial. Doing math to figure out where they all match up within that envelope is unneeded considering the absurdly tight profile here.
Now above 50km:

Turret 1 150% falloff =70km
Turret 2 150% falloff =65km
Turret 3 150% falloff =60km
Turret 4 150% falloff =55km

There is no envelope in this range that any turret passes Turret 1.

Edit: This is why hybrids will never be favored over Projectiles or Lasers, unless their paper DPS is buffed by quite a lot. Their engagement envelope is very tight compared to all other weapon types. The reward for staying in that envelope needs to be high to compensate for the huge drawback of fighting outside it. (not sure how they stack up after Crucible)

He meant half way into falloff, not at the very edge of falloff. It's ~80% dps at 50% falloff, ~50% dps at 100% falloff. Like you said, falloff curve is gradual, but it's also a curve.

Depends on the ship you are flying and how well you can dictate range. Turret 1 gives you flexibily to engage effectively accross a wide range against an enemy that can dictate against you. Turret 4 removes the need to dictate range at all- assuming you can stay within the optimal.

Realistically in a 1 v 1 situation, tracking and damage type matching are what's going to pull lasers (aka turret 4) or projectiles (aka turret 1) ahead in any given engagement. Lasers suffer in brawling range because of tracking, but excel beyond that. You are unlikely to dictate beyond a laser boats optimal because of Scorch ammo so that drawback is minimal. Projectiles excel at brawling ranges with the Minmatar tracking bonus, but also are competitive at farther ranges because of the falloff curve and Barrage ammo. Blasters melt face within their engagement profile, but are penalized harshly if the enemy can dictate range against you.

So lasers on slow ships, ships with weak tackle, or for kiting.
Projectiles for all purposes, but especially up in your face.
Blasters for quick-strike ships with heavy tackle.

IMO, this is the reason for Winmatar. Their ship profile (speed and range dictation) is better suited to blasters, but instead they get autocannons, allowing them to maximize their strength and reduce their penalty at the same time.

Ammunition choices also make a big difference.

Lets take the T1 freq crystals:
Multi S -50% optimal, 12 base damage -set 12 as base damage: 100% damage
Standard S, same optimal, 8 damage : 66.7% damage
Radio S, +60% optimal, 5 damage. 41.7% damage


Now with lasers and somewhat hybrids now (due to the halved reload time), you can easily switch crystals, giving you something similar to "falloff" - in that you can match the crystal to the range, and at greater ranges, you do less damage (although T2 ammo changes this up, such as with T2 pulses it basically goes Imp Navy Multi, Imp Navy Gamma -> Scorch for quite a while -> Radio only at the limits of the laser's range)


So with multi it is:

Turret 1 with Multi has an optimal + falloff of 45km ...
Turret 4 with Multi has an optimal + falloff of 30km ...

but when you switch to radio, taking anearly 60% DPS hit, it becomes:

Turret 1 with Multi has an optimal + falloff of 56km ...
Turret 4 with Multi has an optimal + falloff of 74km ...

And of course, there are the various T2 choices depending on your turret type