Crime & Punishment

As stated, not going to continue this...just an important point that would help people on the forums, since I think many may not understand what a "lie" is. Proving that a claim is a "lie" requires two elements.

A. Conclusive and absolute proof that the claim is false
AND
B. Conclusive and absolute proof that the person who made the claim knew it was false at the time he made the claim

Just saying.

Veers is clearly unable to discern "what IS" from "what HE wants".

"An interesting game. The only winning move is not to play."
- "Joshua", the A.I. from "Wargames"

If those freighters had used proper scouting and were flying correctly (bookmarks, instadocks, insta-undocks) they would not require a mechanics change. Once the fish is on the hook, its already too late. Use a scout, use bookmarks, fly smart, and you dont need to worry about being ganked.

Yes, and the reality of that decision is that you are vulnerable. That is the trade off.

You keep saying that gankers are warp disrupting by bumping. This is untrue. Warp disruption is a module that lowers your warp core strength by one point (hence called a "point"), rendering you unable to initiate warp if you have no core stabilizers fit. Warp SCRAMBLE lowers your warp core strenghth by TWO points, rendering at least 1 stab inert and also preventing the use of warp modules such as MWD's and MJD's.

BUMPING prevents ALIGNMENT, not warping. They are two separate mechanics. I assume you already know this, however it does need to be pointed out, as some may not. When your ship reaches its alignment and speed requirement to initiate warp, you warp. This is why its useful to have a friend with webs, to lower your maximum speed possible, therefore lowering the time it takes you to reach that modified speed. But again, you probably know this.

So, in essence, you are requesting the game to be changed so that you can play it solo. You want to ignore the tools you have at your disposal to prevent being ganked in favor of an "I win" button in the form of a CONCORD escort out of the fire.

You keep attributing CONCORD to a real world police presence. They are not. CONCORD is binary (On/Off). They exist for the sole reason of relieving a red card holder of his ship, nothing more.

Real world police will attempt to get innocents out of the line of fire and into safety, but in the real world, they are not invincible. So, im fine with your CONCORD acting like real police, as long as that means that CONCORD can be engaged and destroyed too. Also, since CONCORD is a police agency, I assume we will start seeing weigh stations and toll booths, as well as a bill of lading required for your cargo, a Material Safety Data Sheet for any HAZMATS you may be transporting, the required license to operate the ship you are flying, an up to date registration card, and make sure you keep your speed down. Gets ridiculous, doesnt it? Thats why its a game, and they arent police.

It has in fact been covered.

Now, explain WHY the game should change to allow for solo play, when the tools exist for you to prevent the gank without the change.

You are banging your head into a brick wall. Someone is offering you a helmet, but you want the wall to become softer so you dont need it.

Edit:

You know what? Dont bother explaining it. You are wrong, and you have been told how to prevent the ganks several times. Your refusal to adapt to the game does not mean it should change to suit your needs. Either use the tools you have or stop your bitching.

So now EVE should be balanced around the abilities of its least competent players? Sounds like a great plan.



A big part of the way CCP changed the mining barges was by improving the effect that fitting choices had on tank, and removing the value of fitting anti-tanking modules (Expanded Cargo hulks were some of the most popular fits before the change). It's still quite possible (in fact, it's easy) to profitably gank untanked barges and exhumers (and that's just ISK proft, not counting the value of a child's magical laughter and other such intangibles).
...CCP just provided haulers with essentially the same set of rebalancing, both providing T1 haulers with the ability to fit a meaningful tank and providing Freighters with the ability to fit modules.

In other words, CCP expects players to make use of the tools available if they want to be effective.



Welcome to a multiplayer game. You are disadvantaged by not playing with other people. How is that a problem?



So, they have the tools and refuse to use them. How is that a problem with the tools?
I can see it being a tutorial design problem.
I can see it being an education problem.
I can't see how player incompetence is a game mechanics problem in need of a game mechanics fix. Both Chimera kills I have on my killboard are the result of stunning incompetence, one being used as logistics in a LS gatecamp and one being used to pick up POS guns in null. Should Chimeras be buffed because those players are incompetent, or should mechanics changes be based on what ships are actually capable of?

By the way:

This is how a great example of EVE should be played. If you don't like another's players in game behavior, go adjust it. Some tips for being more effective at this (some tips known to be effective, some may require testing and practice):
A rookie ship with several webs can be used as a cheap suicide webber for pilots unwilling to accept a duel request (scan freighters the system before to pick likely gank targets and weed out APers who'll just be bumped from 15km on the outgate)
An AG bumper can prevent a bump or possibly send a freighter along the proper vector for a warp out
An AG interceptor can burn around providing warp-outs
And, of course, there's always the direct ECM or DPS route (a Tornado with 650s is great at murdering gank catalysts), Red Safety optional

Okay Eve is a PVP game. Like any game people want to win. Just because a player sucks at it doesn't mean someone else shouldn't try to win just as hard.
"Oh I'm sorry you don't know how to fit your ship, read local, and have no clue what you're doing?... Okay I won't attack you then"

You're right hauling is a different animal but you can avoid Uedama. I bet you didn't even know Eve has more than one trade hub. Even if you insist on bringing your stuff to Jita for sale it's not hard to have a scout to watch ahead... If you're flying a one billion ISK ship that's the least you can do.


The funny thing is you had people spamming local many jumps out from Uedama warning about the CODE ganks... These freighter pilots either chose to avoid multiple warnings or were AFK on auto pilot.

Again if someone is terrible at Eve (Or any game) should I try to be just as terrible so they have a "fair chance"?


If you spent half the time educating these pilots about how to play Eve without being ganked as you spend whining on the forums about how "unfair" it is maybe CODE wouldn't have such easy targets... I mean really hours after CODE started their ganking operation pilots were still auto piloting freighters into Uedama. Should they be given a break because they made a very poor decision or should they pay the price for it?

My general understand is that there are 3 scenarios

1. The Autopiloted freighter - I'm a bit confused by how Loyalanon is putting it, my understanding is that it lands in Uedama at 12km off the gate (but given the 3D nature of the game there are a great many places where it could land), and then warps to 15km from the outgate, and slowboats to the outgate. You could just have a ceptor alt at the outgate, have him burn next to the freighter when it lands (at 15km), and have the gank squad point and web when they land. No need for bumping at all if you do it right. Of course if you are worried that the freighter will stop autopiloting in Uedama, and you want to catch him on the ingate, then this collapses to 2. below.

2. In-gate initial gank. Freighter lands on the ingate, 12km off the gate. You burn an alt over to him, and warp in the gank squad. Now the freighter will be aligning to the outgate to warp. If you have your alt point/scram him before the gankers land, that will draw CONCORD early, and give less time for the gank to be effective. So what you do is have the alt bump the freighter off his align, and then have the gankers point/scram when they land on him, giving max time for DPS. There is no easy way to crack down on this type of bumping, and even if you did, people would just have the initial alt point/scram (he would die fast from the gate guns/police, but buy enough time for the gankers to take over the point/scram), which would only cost the gankers a few seconds of gank time. Traditionally people have tried to bump the freighter 150km off the gate before the gank squad lands because this will avoid the gate guns and make the faction police response slower, but if your gank gank is big enough that's not necessary.

3. Post first-wave gank (in-gate) - When the first wave fails to kill the target, CONCORD is on the scene, the gankers are dead, and back to station to wait out the 15 min aggro timer, and only the bump alts are on scene. If no one bumps the freighter, he will just warp off and the gank is over. Now is when 15 minutes of continuous bumping ensue, to prevent the warp off. Some say the bumping is get the ganker away from CONCORD/Faction Police/gate guns - but if the freighter is sufficiently wounded already, the alpha from the gank ships should be enough to take it down (and I think the gankers pull CONCORD away before hand to their docking station, which means they just need to get enough dps through despite losing a couple Taloses/Brutixes to the faction police/gate guns). Here is where letting the freighter warp off, unaffected by bumping, after the failed gank attempt would make the difference, and prevent these scenario 3 kills from occuring.

Exxcellent! I try to contact the freighter pilot victims to give advice, but they usually ignore my convo request, figuring I am a ganker looking to mock them. I will be happy to discuss further with them, and will suggest that they post on the Eve forums about how CODE is abusing bumping, and how -10 sec status people should not even be allowed in highsec.

Keep up the good work!

Good, that works out for both of us then. Because for every post they come here crying about, two more will be ganked.

Look for the first two (caused directly by YOU) to be delivered in the next few days.