Wormholes

I've been through a lot of wormholes over the past 2 weeks, for the first time in my eve playing. I've just never done exploration before.

I've not seen a single wreck on dscan, ever. Here and there i saw a few ships passing through, 1-4 pos per system of which half were offline.
Average of 5 active sites per system and 2-3 scannable sites. That's it? What?
How long does that take to clean up, 2 hours? Then what?

To me it looks like 95% of wh life is being logged off in your pos or on a safespot.
Where's all the room for high paying activity to match the high risk environment, compared to 24/7 availability of missions in hisec or anomalies in carebear renter nullsec with 50jump-wide intel channels to all sides?

It may even look more empty than it actually is to you, because if you are an inexperienced scanner and scout, the inhabitants likely saw you before you saw them, and cloaked up.

You wouldn't see wrecks on scan unless someone was running sites at that moment, because unlike in kspace sleeper wrecks are very valuable and people salvage them all.

The number of sites is quite low but a single site nets 40-500 million depending on class (not including c1/2 which are almost worthless nowadays).

Many people also suck gas, mine ore, do PI or manufacturing in their wormhole. And of course there are some who actually scan new connections and look for other players to prey on.

Most of wormhole space is quiet. You'll see the odd pilot around but mostly all you find is towers. I used to kill quite a few miners in womholes before changes to make ORE sites visible on D-scan made people very skittish.

I think the last, maybe 4 or 5 encounters I had in a wormhole were fights against other people like myself who didn't live there at all and were just poking around.

When I lived in a wormhole with some alts I got most of my kills in low-sec by surprising mission runners who probably had a scout on the incoming gate and weren't watching local closely as a result. It's pvp that requires extreme amounts of patience.

T-

C2 resident here. Usually you can find me in my own chain hunting 'something' (I say something because it changes all the time).

I'm actually quite suprised. What with the changes in Hyperion I have actually seen more people than previously. More targets yes, but the majority of these people I have seen, are people moving out.

As people have stated above, unless you jump in as someone is running sites, you wont see wrecks. Salvaging wrecks is the way to make ISK of Sleeper sites. As for player wrecks, usually I personally will loot, then explode them.

Wormhole space is quiet sometimes, but its a cloaky hunters playground for sure.

Shiptoasting on the forums.

c3 camper here, I used to do high end wh but RL makes that impossible, so I figured I would insert myself into a c3 for fun and to see 1st hand how the changes effect people.

I've been able to run 6 sites since patch, things are not great but they aren't as bad as some doom speakers are preaching, If a guy an his alt can do a small measure of wh content, its not totally out of the question for a small group.

However bear in mind a lot of the time I logged on , looked at the anoms in there (1-4) scanned an saw 5 wormholes and just logged off. This is fine for me I have alts in plenty of other areas of eve I just swap gears, but not everyone can do that.

This patch is hurting the small groups I see it in lots of different ways, from the low amount of sites respawning, to almost never seeing a probe on scan these days, to the fact the actual pos'ed residents aren't really logging in.

But the end of WH space isn't yet, time will tell if small groups find new ways to live and thrive, wh dwellers are resourceful and hardy it remains to see how small groups will adapt.

So ill throw the gauntlet down a little, if your a small group who is struggling speak up about what changes you and your crew have made to survive post patch, and we can see if we can't all help each other out a little

If you're a small corp trying to actually live, thrive, and grow in a low class wormhole.... You're probably hurting. By living, I mean you spend a majority of your time actively in said wormhole and not off on a mission alt, incursion alt, mining alt, etc... My reasoning being that the combination of the effects of Hyperion and the already relative low Isk/effort of low class wormholes makes it very hard for small groups to thrive.
Often, clearing the sites in my home hole is done just to keep the scan uncluttered and not because there is any real Isk to be made. If you don't get lucky with salvage, a C2 combat seems to be worth no more than a few million Isk. If you get lucky with salvage you might make 10-15+ Isk per combat site, but that's playing the RNG game and really isn't worth the effort of making it safe to clear those sites.
So, to partially answer your question, if you're a small group (or an off-TZ group) in a wormhole, you're probably Pos-spinning or multi-boxing a character in K-space that can actually make you Isk. Assuming you've even bothered to stay logged in after seeing that your home hole is criss-crossed by uncloseable frigate holes. And if you're a small group looking for PvP, you're likely to be SOL (**** Outta Luck) due to empty holes and roaming gangs of Logi supported, T3 gangs with bubble ships. I like a good fight, and I love a challenge, but I'm not going to go around playing tug-of-war with a freight train.

Edit: You also probably spend at least a little time wondering which Null Sec power bloc is shaping the future of J-space, like sprinkles on their blue donut

At the risk of feeding the troll, I'll respond.

1) There is no local, so you really have no idea how many people are in a system, even if you don't see anything on dscan.
2) A lot of the systems are so big, you won't be able to see the whole thing on dscan from one location anyway.
3) Offline POSes are nothing new. Corps come and go in wspace just like anywhere else, but very rarely will people take the time and effort to bash down an empty, abandoned, offline POS, because POS bashing sucks, and there is no other way to remove someone else's offline POS from your hole.
4) No wrecks might just mean they've already been looted and salvaged.
5) No idea when your playtime is, but it may not coincide with the playtime of the hole occupants. I don't see too many people traveling through hisec, finding an empty system, and concluding that "95% of hisec activity is being logged off or in a station".

If you're honestly looking for wormhole activity, join a wormhole corp. If you're yet another troll spouting the line that w-space is dead, please go volunteer your time to something useful, like helping out in a soup kitchen, or a walk-a-thon to help raise awareness and funds for some disease. Or just go pound sand.

They're too busy posting on the forums, filing petitions, and naming anchorables in Jita to do WH stuff.

Who cares about the cloaky t3, it takes a stealth bomber to have a chance of catching a covops, if it randomly decloaks me on a safespot...

I'm not looking for sharks in this sea, and I've seen a couple of those in any case. I'm looking for the fish, and there were none. And with 3+ Wormholes in any system i've passed through or cloaked up in, i completly understand why there's never anybody out there running sites. Obviously i've done a fair share of warping s to get dscans across the system.

Either way, my original question was: wth are people DOING in whs. See nobody ratting for day, there's no constant belts for mining, there's no moon goo. It very much looks to me, like wormholes are a circle-jerk of cloaky pvpers, with the exception of c5/6 where capitals provide income and security at the same time.

From what i've seen, living in any lower class wh is pointless, and the lack of pve activity proves my chain of thought. If i wanted lower class WH stuff, i'd RAID wormholes with a bunch of cloakys, and keep my base in K space. Why live there?