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So why are people still running level 4 missions?

Author
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#1 - 2014-09-04 14:14:01 UTC
So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.

The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.

So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.

What gives?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2 - 2014-09-04 14:27:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Paikis wrote:
So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.

The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.

So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.

What gives?


-lvl 4s can be run solo, no need to wait for a fleet.

-Incursions get boring after a while. lvl 4s are boring but you can just log off when you want, leaving in the middle of an incursion fleet will gain you the ire of many incursion FCs. At least you get different missions, in incursions it's "we just did a TCRC, warp to the next TCRC".

-lvl4s are more family friendly. With my overtanked rattlesnake I can walk away from the computer at any time to deal with a screaming kid. In an incursion you can not unless you tell the FC you need to go afk for that the logi locks you up and watches your shields till you come back (a major PITA for all involved)

-lvl 4s don't require you to pick up and move every time a rival group gets ticked off and pops the mom early.

I'm still of the opinion that Incursions in high sec are too good for the amount of risk and effort involved (very low risk unless your are super shiny, very low effort for everyone except the few people running the fleet such as the FC, LC, dropper/picker, AAA and such). But they don't trump lvl 4 missions for convenience.

Also your estimates are a bit low, the right ship in lvl 3s can do about as much as you say is average from lvl 4s.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#3 - 2014-09-04 14:44:04 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Level 3s are much faster to run and don't require as much tank, allowing you to fit even more gank making them faster still. The Machariel he was using had a single MAR as it's only tanking module. Also the vast majority of that ISK is in LP, with some lvl3s giving estimated 3mil in LP and less than 500k in total ISK.

The 90mil/h for level4s was based on a thread a while back where someone was running with Tengus and then jump cloning between agents as he declined, as well as using a courier service and market orders while running missions.

Regardless of the actual amount of ISK/h for level 4s, Incursions make more.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-09-04 14:48:52 UTC
You obviously have not run incursions lately. Here, read this: http://thevalhallaproject.info/news.html

My incursion income went from LOTS to Almost Nothing. So yeah, I am back to l4.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#5 - 2014-09-04 15:18:49 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
With Incursions, your ship is at the mercy of a Logi pilot. You might end up in a fleet of pilots you never even heard of before.

With missions, you can log in, solo a few 4's, and log out.

As for isk per hour: Just work at McDonalds for 2 hours and buy PLEX. It's by far, the best ISK per hour in the game.
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-09-04 16:29:53 UTC
incursion have a fixed max players limit for each site and a limited number of site spawned at any time, l4 are infinite.
Ginger Barbarella
#7 - 2014-09-04 17:48:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Barbarella
Setting aside the money you SAY is possible (I don't play to grind isk), why would I want to do Incursions over L4's or FW?

Remember, I said I don't play to grind for isk, so the money I make in my non-industry activities is completely, 100% irrelevant.

Thanks.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#8 - 2014-09-04 18:25:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
In finding ISK per hour for incursions, be sure to include the time needed to fly to the incursion site, the time used to wait for a spot on the fleet, and the time needed to fly home when you are done.

Once you do that, you will see the ISK per hour is not quite as good as you think.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#9 - 2014-09-04 18:28:53 UTC
Because no matter how hard I try, I can never be the biggest ******* in an Incursion fleet. In my own fleet, its easy. Mandatory, in fact.

I'm # 1.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#10 - 2014-09-04 19:39:55 UTC
Better tax rates at the stations they use.

Jump clones.

Locator agents.

The isk is way higher than your estimate.
Samwise Everquest
Plus 10 NV
#11 - 2014-09-04 20:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Samwise Everquest
Paikis wrote:
So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.

The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.

So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.

What gives?


Id say the average ISK per hour in Incursions is actually 60-100 mil doing VGs. You must take into account people leaving/going, sites being contested, people falling asleep, ect ect. This is from experience so arguing that I am wrong isn't going to work.

The 100 mil an hour doing VGs is optimal as in, good pilots with good skills in shiny ships that do more dps with less tank.

As for why people prefer L4s? A number of things

- General progression from l3s are l4s not Incursions
- L4 require less skills and can be handled without faction or expensive t2 mods/ships
- casual environment for the semi afker
- low risk, lol npcs arent gonna kill anyone with a brain as opposed to sansha
- standings
- LP payout for certain corps is pretty damn good
- some people like to do things solo

Pras Phil.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2014-09-04 21:33:02 UTC
Because I can pick it up and put it down instantly - kids/cat/door/work calls
Because it's a respectable income supplement when I'm tired or wrapping up of an evening.
Because the time I'd spend in an incursion, I'd prefer to be blowing people up on my main.
Because why NOT do it whilst you're playing the market on said alt? You can 0.1isk from space and get a little liquid isk injection whilst you're doing it.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-09-04 22:28:11 UTC
I do it for a change of pace. Or to improve standings to lower tax rates. A while back, I did it to get personal access to jump clone facilities, which is a worthwhile reward regardless of ISK or LP income. (Jump clone access is one of those things that is dead easy in sov-null - provided you've got the right benefactor - but that you've got to work like crazy for in high.)

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

GordonO
BURN EDEN
#14 - 2014-09-04 22:30:57 UTC
Its all about accessibility. Try getting in to a regular incursion fleet if you in the NZ time zone before DT. I think helix now are about the most active and warp to me try.
Also a lot of people can't always be on voice coms. I know if I came home from work everyday and jumped on TS I will soon come home to an empty house.
So if you took in to account the above, the wait times and the travel time, lvl4's are more consistent\accessible.
It also a nice change, having been in wh's and null for most of my eve time a little lvl 4 farming is a nice change.

... What next ??

GordonO
BURN EDEN
#15 - 2014-09-04 22:32:30 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
I do it for a change of pace. Or to improve standings to lower tax rates. A while back, I did it to get personal access to jump clone facilities, which is a worthwhile reward regardless of ISK or LP income. (Jump clone access is one of those things that is dead easy in sov-null - provided you've got the right benefactor - but that you've got to work like crazy for in high.)


join EACS.. make clones, re-join corp (if they want you back) easy as Blink

... What next ??

stoicfaux
#16 - 2014-09-05 00:39:32 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Paikis wrote:


The 90mil/h for level4s was based on a thread a while back where someone was running with Tengus and then jump cloning between agents as he declined, as well as using a courier service and market orders while running missions.

That would be my personal hero, Mooseburger. I used his spreadsheets as the basis for mine.

edit: It's actually "moose burger" and "frozean" , e.g. http://eve-search.com/thread/1368512/page/1


It's around 100+M/h in asset generation.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4217001
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=334784&find=unread

Quote:
Regardless of the actual amount of ISK/h for level 4s, Incursions make more.

As other overcommitted parents have pointed out, incursions require too much commitment. Heck, I was at the point where blitzing level 3's (~3 minutes per mission) was the only EVE activity that I could make time for. Now I just log in to update my skill queue (and even then, I'm setting long level 5 skills.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Keaton DuCasse
The Destiny Logistics.
#17 - 2014-09-05 05:02:31 UTC
Paikis wrote:

So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.


I believe there are player whom play EvE without the ISK / hr thing in mind.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#18 - 2014-09-05 07:19:19 UTC
Paikis wrote:
So depending on who you talk to, Incursions can make you anywhere from 100mil/h right up to 240mil/h plus LP. You can probably average these numbers out to something like 120mil/h plus LP once you take wait times into account.

The best numbers I've ever seen for level 4 missions is 90mil/h and that included LP, a pimped out ship and declining bad missions, as well as market trading while you're running the missions. Most people can reasonably expect to get about 30mil/h plus LP with level 4s.

So why do people still spend time running level 4 missions? They are quite literally a waste of time.

What gives?


* shorter time commitment, you can pick up and run one in ~15 .. 30 minutes usually even solo.
* does not involve long travel, wait times, etc.
* you can multi-account them reasonably effecively, unlike incursions (other than ISBoxers)
* 90 mil/h is single account pimped ship ballpark (depending substantially what LP are you exactly getting), however, if you throw 2+ accounts at it the gap with incursion average is not that large and you can skip most of the pimp. L4 completion times scales pretty reasonably up to ~2000 .. 3000 dps (depending on alpha, RoF, lock speed, travel times and weapon type used).

That out of the way Incursions in reasonably pimp fleet should be still slightly ahead because of the LP. They are just also more effort. There is no point of walking all the way up to the Incursion area if all you have is less than 1h of gametime in that session.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Voxinian
#19 - 2014-09-05 09:19:01 UTC
Once you have enough Isk's and assets as reserves the necessity of making x amount of Isk's an hour is gone (for me anyway).
I sometimes do some DED sites for faction loot just for the fun of it and that still brings in enough ISK to buy a plex or a new BS or something... thats enough for me. The rest of the time I just jerk around in space and do whatever I feel like doing. PVE is insanely boring and repetitive so the less I have to do (for ISK's) the better.
Lugalzagezi666
#20 - 2014-09-05 13:57:40 UTC
I run l4 missions because it is quite relaxing to do them while watching porn, contrary to incursions, where people actually want you to shoot or repair when you got more important things to do.
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