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C4 new wh corp plan need some advice
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mad max dragneel
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-09-04 13:07:03 UTC
Hey guys, recently me and a few other mates have been talking about setting up a new
corp in a c4, hopefully with a c3/c4 static or c3/c2.

ive been looking at pos setup, using siggy, ships to farm sleepers,etc

but one thing is overall corp managment. As living out of a pos its hard to keep things secure, and
payment, pos fuel payment, tax etc, i cant find much info on this, im wondering what do you guys do?
how do you manage your small gang wh corp? how does payment take place that keeps ppl happy and
pays for all corp costs?

any info/links/tools would be great!
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-09-04 13:16:32 UTC
mad max dragneel wrote:
Hey guys, recently me and a few other mates have been talking about setting up a new
corp in a c4, hopefully with a c3/c4 static or c3/c2.

ive been looking at pos setup, using siggy, ships to farm sleepers,etc

but one thing is overall corp managment. As living out of a pos its hard to keep things secure, and
payment, pos fuel payment, tax etc, i cant find much info on this, im wondering what do you guys do?
how do you manage your small gang wh corp? how does payment take place that keeps ppl happy and
pays for all corp costs?

any info/links/tools would be great!


We've done a flat fee for forever and it has worked fine for costs. Add up monthly costs (fuel + whatever else) and divide it by the number of pilots (yes pilots not players). That is the monthly "fee"

Outside of that ppl keep whatever isk they make from whatever activities they like.

It has worked fine for us for years. The fee kind of ensures we have active people in corp, as they need to be playing to keep up on the fee. It makes it easy to deal with inactives if they don't pay. (hasn't been an issue yet).

I'm also a pretty nice CEO as the entire PVE fleet + ammo is corp owned. So nobody had to bring in their own PVE ships. They are on a "you break it you bought it" plan though.
Levina Windstar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-09-04 13:18:07 UTC
We are a small corp living in a C4 -C3/C5 static and we are all director and put everything in the corp wallet. Ofc you need to trust your friend for this to work but it's sooooooooooo less painful to manage. Basicly we pay everything with the corp wallet including Fuel, ships + fit, PLEX... If we need something we tell the guys and we buy it with the corp wallet. I don't even have 100m in my personal wallet but we have few bil in master Smile

The other solution in using a spreadsheet and split the loot between member who did the sites.

"I can make billions using my mouth ...

... and sometimes when I talk, too" --- Solecist Project
mad max dragneel
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-09-04 13:22:05 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
mad max dragneel wrote:
Hey guys, recently me and a few other mates have been talking about setting up a new
corp in a c4, hopefully with a c3/c4 static or c3/c2.

ive been looking at pos setup, using siggy, ships to farm sleepers,etc

but one thing is overall corp managment. As living out of a pos its hard to keep things secure, and
payment, pos fuel payment, tax etc, i cant find much info on this, im wondering what do you guys do?
how do you manage your small gang wh corp? how does payment take place that keeps ppl happy and
pays for all corp costs?

any info/links/tools would be great!


We've done a flat fee for forever and it has worked fine for costs. Add up monthly costs (fuel + whatever else) and divide it by the number of pilots (yes pilots not players). That is the monthly "fee"

Outside of that ppl keep whatever isk they make from whatever activities they like.

It has worked fine for us for years. The fee kind of ensures we have active people in corp, as they need to be playing to keep up on the fee. It makes it easy to deal with inactives if they don't pay. (hasn't been an issue yet).

I'm also a pretty nice CEO as the entire PVE fleet + ammo is corp owned. So nobody had to bring in their own PVE ships. They are on a "you break it you bought it" plan though.


flat fee sounds interesting, my idea was all assets farmed at the start of the month will go to corp.
until the 550 mill mark has been completed, (covers pos fuel)

after which all other assets are split to whoever runs them and the corp takes 3-5%

not sure if this would work but its been suggested.

pure flat fee sounds way easier though i must admit.
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#5 - 2014-09-04 13:27:03 UTC
Go C5. Save yourself from the crap that is C4 nowadays.
Sith1s Spectre
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-09-04 14:00:08 UTC
mad max dragneel wrote:
Hey guys, recently me and a few other mates have been talking about setting up a new
corp in a c4, hopefully with a c3/c4 static or c3/c2.

ive been looking at pos setup, using siggy, ships to farm sleepers,etc

but one thing is overall corp managment. As living out of a pos its hard to keep things secure, and
payment, pos fuel payment, tax etc, i cant find much info on this, im wondering what do you guys do?
how do you manage your small gang wh corp? how does payment take place that keeps ppl happy and
pays for all corp costs?

any info/links/tools would be great!


You have 2 options with towers - make your members bring their own and fuel them themselves (never give them the roles to anchor/offline ****)

Or - have them rent hangar slots and limit the towers to say 5-7 people tops (pending on how you set your hangar divisions up) and individually password each damn tower. Charge them a % of fuel - ie split 5 ways if 5 people are living there ect...


With corp revenue, generally people either run it so corp buys all sleeper loot @ X% below jita or dudes donate x% of revenue generated from the WH to help pay for things...

Dunno, there's lots of ways to do things. Just limit access and don't give out roles easily and you should do fine.

Sith

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant
dirtydebbs
the wreking crew
#7 - 2014-09-04 14:01:56 UTC  |  Edited by: dirtydebbs
Yeh as stated flat fee of x amount a month deposited into a corp wallet to cover ammo drones and pos fuel works well.
If for example they want there own pos for reactions or anything limit rolls and they have to pay and fund there pos at there own risk.
It's ruffly 6 sites a month to cover it all for us,

Other options are co to tax I.e. 10% corps tax so every site corp takes a cut from the isk then split, the corp tax then pays for ammo drones ect if ure getting excess isk at end of month deposite it into another wallet let it build up untill it covers all members pve ships and payd out if ganked d/cd but not pvp, if once you got isk to cover all members pve ships keep saving excess into another wallet then use that to fund corp pvp isk refunds for loggy shipps ect or a monthly cruiser roams ect.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-09-04 14:10:14 UTC
mad max dragneel wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
mad max dragneel wrote:
Hey guys, recently me and a few other mates have been talking about setting up a new
corp in a c4, hopefully with a c3/c4 static or c3/c2.

ive been looking at pos setup, using siggy, ships to farm sleepers,etc

but one thing is overall corp managment. As living out of a pos its hard to keep things secure, and
payment, pos fuel payment, tax etc, i cant find much info on this, im wondering what do you guys do?
how do you manage your small gang wh corp? how does payment take place that keeps ppl happy and
pays for all corp costs?

any info/links/tools would be great!


We've done a flat fee for forever and it has worked fine for costs. Add up monthly costs (fuel + whatever else) and divide it by the number of pilots (yes pilots not players). That is the monthly "fee"

Outside of that ppl keep whatever isk they make from whatever activities they like.

It has worked fine for us for years. The fee kind of ensures we have active people in corp, as they need to be playing to keep up on the fee. It makes it easy to deal with inactives if they don't pay. (hasn't been an issue yet).

I'm also a pretty nice CEO as the entire PVE fleet + ammo is corp owned. So nobody had to bring in their own PVE ships. They are on a "you break it you bought it" plan though.


flat fee sounds interesting, my idea was all assets farmed at the start of the month will go to corp.
until the 550 mill mark has been completed, (covers pos fuel)

after which all other assets are split to whoever runs them and the corp takes 3-5%

not sure if this would work but its been suggested.

pure flat fee sounds way easier though i must admit.


Yea I'm too lazy to try and keep track of the "corp" cut. With a flat fee all i gotta do is check for it the first of every month. Give warning if needed (again never been an issue). I have had some people go on extended leave, vacations etc, so we work something out. I mean heck, most people make their monthly amount plus some just on their side PI stuff. It's not that much.

As far as income, when guys run sites, they put the loot in a can and name it with who was involved. When its hauling time they get hauled out, sold, and split according to who's name was on the can. Has worked out well. I'm often the one hauling and selling and I don't typically take out a fee (again too nice) but overall everyone in corp does a good job at pitching in on logistics, getting loot out and supplies in so I don't mind it.
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#9 - 2014-09-04 15:10:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Aureus Ahishatsu
mad max dragneel wrote:


flat fee sounds interesting, my idea was all assets farmed at the start of the month will go to corp.
until the 550 mill mark has been completed, (covers pos fuel)

after which all other assets are split to whoever runs them and the corp takes 3-5%

not sure if this would work but its been suggested.

pure flat fee sounds way easier though i must admit.


Pavel Sohaj wrote:
Go C5. Save yourself from the crap that is C4 nowadays.


I wouldn't recommend just taking income till you hit the 550 mark as membership is much more likely to stick around if you are giving them constant payouts. Our corp was in a c2 with a c4/hs static and now moved into a c5 c3 static. Here are a Couple things to think of if you are living in a wh.

-PI! It's not fun but when you don't have anything better to do PI is an excellent source of passive income. WH PI is better than just about all locations next to NULL. Also the ability to make your own pos fuel in system is a huge plus. You will have a much easier time keeping the pos fueled if all you need to bring in is the specific isogens for your racial pos fuel. I don't have the website on hand but there is a website specifically for PI that will tell you everything you can make in your wh from PI given the planets. Also PI is a great way for the corp to make income off all the members through POCO taxes.

-living in a c4 you may want t consider finding a c4 with a c5 static. The reason being eventually you will get tired of c4 sites as your corp becomes more proficient. When that happens you will most likely want to start making more isk. In a c4 with a c4 or c3 static you are basically locked in never expanding much. If you are looking for mainly PVP then a c4/c3/c2 static may be what you are looking for.

-our corporate policy was always that the corp keeps 10% of the take for fleet ops. Since I'm assuming your corp will organize fleets for isk one person will be the salvager. If you are a trust worthy CEO you can keep all the loot/salvage from the night to go sell. then whatever you sell keep 10% for corp. Please note though if you go this route you need to be A)very trustworthy. fleet members can see what you are looting and the ones that can do math will know if you're screwing them. and B) effective at taking out and selling. If you are taking a month to pay people they are not going to be happy and will eventually leave.

-rats killed at belts or gas fields are whoever clears them as you won't get much from those anyway compared to the regular site.

-as for roles you can assign people individual hangers to store their modules. however keep at least one maintanance array role locked which is where you will store things like an orca or any other high value ship. Just so you know. it's going to take some time to get all the ships/modules you need in the wh to any operable level. given you have a small corp I would plan on having a week of moving **** into the wh.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#10 - 2014-09-04 15:19:51 UTC
Levina Windstar wrote:
We are a small corp living in a C4 -C3/C5 static and we are all director and put everything in the corp wallet. Ofc you need to trust your friend for this to work but it's sooooooooooo less painful to manage. Basicly we pay everything with the corp wallet including Fuel, ships + fit, PLEX... If we need something we tell the guys and we buy it with the corp wallet. I don't even have 100m in my personal wallet but we have few bil in master Smile

Might you perchance have room in your corp for another member? I am very friendly, tidy and extremely trustworthy.

.
Levina Windstar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-09-04 15:29:57 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Levina Windstar wrote:
We are a small corp living in a C4 -C3/C5 static and we are all director and put everything in the corp wallet. Ofc you need to trust your friend for this to work but it's sooooooooooo less painful to manage. Basicly we pay everything with the corp wallet including Fuel, ships + fit, PLEX... If we need something we tell the guys and we buy it with the corp wallet. I don't even have 100m in my personal wallet but we have few bil in master Smile

Might you perchance have room in your corp for another member? I am very friendly, tidy and extremely trustworthy.


Sure, send me a plex and ur in!

"I can make billions using my mouth ...

... and sometimes when I talk, too" --- Solecist Project
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#12 - 2014-09-04 15:30:20 UTC
I forgot a few other things.

-we always paid out based off pilots NOT players. Obviously this means that a guy running 3 accounts is going to get 3x the payout of someone with only one. However in small corps that guy could be 2 logistics and a dps ship which is bringing a huge amount to the fleet. And he has 3 accounts to run/plex. Obviously if someone switches characters on an account that is still only one payout. This only works though at the small corp level. Once you start getting to larger corps one guy having 1-3 accounts becomes less relevant.

also you (as a CEO) are responsible for making sure people are doing their part. More than once we had people do the whole procedure of brought gila, launch drones, assign assistance to drone bunny, walk away till site is clear.

-another option is to go with the tic system which I came up with and is what we adopted for a c5.
due to the logistics of living in a highclass wh sometimes you won't have time to run much for fleet ops. For example if you have a random HS hole you're going to want to take advantage of it before you run sites etc. This sucks for anyone who can't make other op nights for income. They may feel screwed because they're doing all the work bringing stuff in/out while the guys who log in the next night will have everything ready to go to run all the sites they want. When you get to the higher wh's with escalations it's more relevant because wh corps "farm" the capital escalations by not clearing the site for 3 days. Obviously this sucks for anyone who opens the site as they won't get to reap the added income on the last day when the corp 'clears' the site.

Tic system explained
-all pilots for the op night are logged be it for 1 site or 4 with a tally or 'tic'
-at the end of the week (usually sunday )all loot is taken out to be sold
-after corp tax is taken out remaining profit is divided out among corp members by the number of 'tics' they have for the week.

It sounds complicated but when you have a ton of containers with multiple people's names on each one it can be a pain in the ass taking them out and selling all the individual loot/ dividing it up vs. just selling everything and dividing up tic counts.

NOTE: DON'T EVER LOOSE YOUR TIC COUNTS FOR THE WEEK or you will risk corporation mutiny Big smile
Longinius Spear
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
#13 - 2014-09-04 17:24:22 UTC
If a new group moves into a C4 you are totally going to go agienst the grain. There is a mass exodus from w-space fueled by butt hurt and spilled milk. YOU CAN NOT DO THIS!

But if you must... here is the answer to your question.

For a small group I would use the 7 divisional access system, group similar 'investment/RISK" players into the same divisions. Give each corp member roles to just that division. Talocan united had a great tutorial on how to do this.

Not sure if its posted anywhere else, but if you can't find it by a google search, Ping me in game, I'll jump on coms with you. I can walk you through the process and you can take notes.

Good luck in C4 space, I hope to fight you soon!

Read more of my ramblings on my blog www.invadingyourhole.blogspot.com